What motorhome to carry m/bike?

Discussion in 'The Beginner' started by Hawcara, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. Hawcara

    Hawcara Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cornwall
    :RollEyes:Currently have a caravan, but seriously looking at motorhome, having hired ones abroad.
    We would like to put a scooter about 100cc on the back, but weight limit is a problem. I would not want to buy a van, get the rack etc and then have to sell parts because I was overloaded.
    Therefore, could members of the forum suggest makes or vans that they use that would be suitable for carrying a scooter on the back? There are only 2 of us and we would not want a tag axle.
    Thank you
     
  2. snailsontour

    snailsontour Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Manchester
    The key things to look for are a short overhang behind the back axle and a high payload. It is very easy to be overloaded. A 100cc scooter weighing in the region of 120kg plus the weight of a motorcycle rack acting as a lever 1 - 2 metres behind the back axle can add around 225kg or more to the rear axle load.

    The formula is D = A x C ÷ B
    Where D is the back axle increased load in kg
    A is the weight of the scooter and rack in kgs
    B is the wheelbase of the vehicle in cms
    C is the distance from the scooter to the front axle in cms.

    Our van is based on a Iveco 35-12 and has a payload of 1100kg (max 4200kg). A recent check weigh with our bike (Yamaha Serow 225 - dry weight 120kg) on, plus a lot of wine and beer (just back from two months in France), full water and fuel tanks. left us just 100kg to spare without Sue or I in it - and I weigh 100kg! Both axle loads were within the maximum but 1100kg had vanished.

    I cannot recommend any particular van but I would recommend rear wheel drive - much better for load carrying and getting off slippery fields.

    Hope this helps
    Bob
     
  3. robnchris

    robnchris Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Chester
    axle weights.

    Hi guys,

    Not really certain how this works, so could do with a little help.
    We have to weigh bridge certificates, one for each axle, front being 1360 kg. the rear 2060kg.

    Now then have just fitted a motorbike rack (not certain how much rack weighs) to carry our CG 125 honda which weighs about 110kg.
    Now then the rack adds about 4 ft to he van, we are having the AS air suspension fitted next week but we wondered were we stood re carrying weights.

    Regards Rob and Chris.
     
  4. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    26,447
    Likes Received:
    25,133
    Location:
    Macclesfield
    We need some numbers:

    wheelbase
    overhang from rear wheel to centre of bike

    You have a lever from the front wheel to the bike pressing down on the rear axle.

    (wheelbase+overhang) * bike weight = torque created by bike

    weight on back axle = torque / wheelbase.

    Just as Mr Snails said but shown differently.
     
  5. robnchris

    robnchris Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Chester
    motor bike rack

    Ok, bike weighs 100kg, rack weighs 45kg. overhang from back alxle is 2600mm.
    Wheelbase is 3600mm.
     
  6. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    26,447
    Likes Received:
    25,133
    Location:
    Macclesfield
    So the bike creates a torque of 145 * ( 2600 + 3600 ) = 899000.

    Effect on rear axle = 899000 / 3600 = 249kg. Frightening eh !

    There is a second calculation because the bike is also trying to lift the front by pivoting around the read axle.

    torque = 2600 * 145 = 377000

    Effect on front = 377000 / 3600 = 104kg.

    Now, can you carry this legally and have some spare for the wine ?
     
  7. robnchris

    robnchris Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    1,571
    Location:
    Chester
    phew

    Thanks for that Brian, lots of big numbers, 249kg swinging about at the back of the truck is scary, hence the reason I`m having the as air suspension fitted next week.
    So one more question, just how many kg`s can I carry, can you explain how after arriving at the figure of 249kg we have decided that this is within the legal limit.
    What is my legal limit?

    Cheers Rob.
     
  8. olley

    olley Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,713
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Location:
    Ipswich
    Hi legal limit will be the maximum weight the axles can take, and the maximum weight the motorhome can be. Often 3500kg or 3850kg, these weights will all be on the plate which may be somewhere around the front doors. Also your licence may restrict you.

    Olley
     
  9. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    26,447
    Likes Received:
    25,133
    Location:
    Macclesfield
    The big numbers were only because I worked in mm, they could have been tiny numbers if I'd worked km. You are not swinging 249kg at the back, you are adding 249kg to the weight on the back axle.

    Air suspension does not make any difference to the legalities, just the handling. As Olley said the legalities are written on the loading plate somewhere.
     
  10. dazzer

    dazzer Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    99
    Location:
    In my house
    Stop messing around :BigGrin:

    Just buy an RV and have done with it :thumb:
     
  11. Hawcara

    Hawcara Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cornwall
    Eze Tow

    Thank you for all your replies.
    When looking at motorhomes, the payload weight does not seem a lot to play with.
    However, I wonder if those of you who use scooters etc have any experience of Eze Tow? It seems a sort of trailer that sits on a tow bar and does not have any of the probs of reversing a short axle trailer.:Eeek:
     
  12. olley

    olley Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,713
    Likes Received:
    2,107
    Location:
    Ipswich
    Not necessarily so Dazzer, mine with a bike on the back was up to the limit on the rear axle, and feels light on the front, it also makes the "Tail wagging the dog" effect much worse, in fact I flogged the easilifter to John.

    Olley
     
  13. barryd

    barryd Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,144
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Yorkshire Dales
    Hi

    This is what I used for calculating if I could put a rack and scooter on. The other members have pretty much explained the formula but I find the pic helps.

    http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/features/loading-back.html

    I bought a 1996 Swift Kontiki and this was my calcuations and results.

    Before the rack and scooter I went to a weigh bridge with the van and-

    Total Vehicle weight = 3040
    Front Axle = 1600
    Rear = 1440

    According to the plates under the bonnet the max weights allowed were as follows

    Total Max vehicle weight = 3400
    Front Axle = 1650
    Rear = 1750

    So we are already somewhere near. Using the formulas on the site and in Practical Motorhome I calculated the following

    The overhang is 1700mm and the wheelbase is 4300. The scooter and rack will weigh 150kg, IF you divide 1700mm by 4300 and x that by the weight of the scooter (150) that = 59KG extra weight on top of the rack and scooter which means a total extra weight of 209kg on the back axle which would take it to 1649kg.

    This however also reduces the front load down to 1541kg leaving a spare 109 kg at the front and 101 at the back or 210 KG to play with.

    I got it all fitted and was under the weight on the back but not by much. I compensated for the weight being taken off the front by moving as much as possible forward such as folding mountain bikes etc in the Luton.

    It can be done but I think the only true way to do it properly is to take the van with you and your passengers and as much stuff as possible to a weighbridge, then do the calculation.

    A word of warning though. My back axle has just gone in today for a replacment. Some of the leaf springs inside it started to snap last summer and its now 2 inches lower than it should be. Apparently though this is chiefly down to the fact that it was never serviced (and its 14 years old). They must be greased every year or I think 5000 miles. Its going to cost me £2200 but I will be getting and upgraded Axle which should compensate better for the extra weight.

    Cant be without my scooter though and I wouldnt want a trailer!
     
  14. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,458
    Likes Received:
    8,598
    Location:
    Ilfracombe, Devon
    you could be in luck my van (see avatar) is a 1981 Mercedes coachbuilt. it currently weighs in at 4.1t fully loaded. Has a plated weight of 5 ton so 900kilos going spare.
    I am in Ilfracombe N. Devon. feel free to pm me for phone number if you want to come and view. Am looking for £6000.

    have for sale a 1981 Mercedes 508D coachbuilt motorhome.
    under 100K miles on the clock (engine good for 650K miles at least.) These engines are legend doesn't smoke and never misses a beat.
    Rear wheel drive (twin wheels) means getting stuck on wet grass a thing of the past.
    The entire rollingstock has been rebuilt. new brake pipes (copper), master and slave cyls. Rear shoes and drums replaced, new wheel bearings, springs, spring hanger bushes. All bills available.
    U - Shaped lounge makes 6ft 6" x 5ft bed
    central Dinette makes a single bed
    Overcab had 2 x fore and aft full size single berths. plus a shorter one in the middle, or could be rearranged as a huge double.
    There are two full length wardrobes and massive cupboards all around with sufficient storage for fulltiming.
    3 way fridge freezer 4 ring hob and grill.
    TV ant for Digital and Analogue with signal amp works great on freeveiw sand analogue (where you still have a signal)
    50W solar panel on the leisure battery and 5W in the engine batteries. Kepp all batteries fully charged all winter no problem.
    Radio cassette player in cab and second alongside the bed.
    240V inverter with double socket
    plenty of other 240V sockets for use on hookup.
    hookup cable.
    Gas locker takes 2 x 13kg bottles, currently has 1 x 13kg and 1 x 10kg. there is a 2 way gas changeover valve.
    External locker currently holds a generator (not sold with it) there is a gas fire and also an eberspatcher blown air diesel heater (needs fuel line cleaning).
    So there you go a lot of van for £6000 only selling because new van arrives soon.
    Veiwing in Ilfracombe, Devon, could deliver. Long MOT (End Sept) and taxed. Ready to go to France or wherever.

     
  15. barryd

    barryd Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,144
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Yorkshire Dales
    Sounds like an absolute bargain Wildman. Dont think you will have to wait long to sell that. I wonder if modern vans have got a bit lardy then as your payload is huge in comparison. When I get my new Axle on my Konitiki it will (in theory) be a similar payload, loads to play with. Its 14 years old so again and older van?
     
  16. Autoquest

    Autoquest Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    Small EU backwater
    I have a 268kg Suzuki Burgman and I fully intend to get one of the Exetow trailers but the guy who makes them is having a few health problems at the moment and can't do much before April - and their not cheap....

    The trailer has two tow hitches and is attached outboard on either side of the motorhome, this arrangement, coupled with some castor wheels make reversing problems a thing of the past. A third of the weight however, is transmitted to the rear axle via noseweight
     
  17. Kon tiki

    Kon tiki Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    North Wales
    I have an Adria Izola plated at 3850 kgs with a payload of over 850 kgs. I carry a Yamaha YBR 125 (weight around 105 kgs) in the garage. Didn't fancy putting a bike on the back so decided on a garage model with the transverse bed but know some people don't like the high bed.
     
  18. ronald4874

    ronald4874 Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Poole Dorset
    Scooter on the rear

    I have carried a scooter on the back of my 'custom built luton' van for a number of years. The cals described earlier are correct and therefore the trick is to manage the balance of the vehicle, ie to make use of the potential load on the front axle.
    In my case I removed the 'luton' bed ( about 20kg) and used that area for some load normally carried over the rear axle leaving the scooter to play a major role in that area. Several visits to the weigh bridge verified the distribution of the total load. With the front axle loaded to a greater degree the van became much more stability when driving whereas before the front tended to bounce around and generally grip could be a problem.
    Good luck on your trips and enjoy the flexibility that the scooter gives to touring generally especially on the continent where scooters are more widely accepted. We have never used the scooter on the back of the van in the UK, too risky travelling around on it.
    Ron.
     
  19. scran

    scran Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    washington
    garage

    buy a van with a garage to put a small motorbike in just what we have done we just boughta honda 90 on monday and are doing just that:Smile:
     
  20. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    Just make sure the bike is as light as possible - the tow ball will shear before the weight on the back becomes a problem. The ball is not made for weight being put on top, but for pulling weight. If i recall - the ball will cope with 146kg. This is alot less with bolt on/swan neck types.

    Most small bikes will be fine though - but do check the axle load. Some vehicles 'near the limit' will not handle is very well at all!
     
Loading...

Share This Page