What leisure battery advice (1 Viewer)

May 1, 2009
1,005
2,177
SOUTH WOODHAM FERRERS
Funster No
6,530
MH
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2002
I could do with a bit of advice if any Funsters are able concerning my two leisure batteries that appear fully discharged.A bit of background may help.

The van was laid up for the last 10 weeks with the Autotrail Sargent E500 charger unit mains switch left on because the literature said with it left on the leisure,with a 100w roof solar, would supply a top up to the engine battery that supplies the alarm system.Previous years I have not left it on and the engine battery was flat on our return due to the pull from the alarm but the leisures was always ok.

I decided the engine battery must have been ruined and therefore was always pulling from the leisure eventually draining them.The engine battery has now been replaced but after 4 hrs driving and 5 days on 240v the leisures are at 9.6 v and obviously not taking a charge.


My questions come after visiting my local dealership shop sales.They have suggested I get them to do a drop test to see if they are unusable or simply not accepting a charge because no amount of driving or van charger will bring them back to about 50% where such things would start to charge them.A stand alone trickle charger will be the only thing that can do this from flat and of course they can sell me a Ctek one for £150.00 !


They are Banner 12V K5/75Ah K20/100Ah and now 3.5 years old. What are the best make if I need to replace them .They sell a make called Platinum for £140.00 each.


I will do the drop test this Thursday and then see which way to go
 

movan

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Dec 2, 2009
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This is probably very stupid as I don't understand this stuff .. but could it be the split fuse?

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TheBig1

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Nov 27, 2011
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many many years! since I was a kid
simple answer is the batteries are beyond help. a £13 charger from lidl or aldi are as much use as the ctek for basic trickle charging

not all batteries are made equal, and i prefer the new calcium ones at the price. or banner traction batteries at cost no object
 
OP
OP
mojo
May 1, 2009
1,005
2,177
SOUTH WOODHAM FERRERS
Funster No
6,530
MH
A Class
Exp
2002
Just checked out a link from Enword (thanks Enword) that got me to a NCC Verified Leisure Battery Scheme and very interesting reading it makes.


I presently have 2 x Class B Banner 957 51 with 200 Life Cycles 50% DoD ? the shop seems to be selling me a Class A Platinum ( 3 models ) with 500 Life Cycles


This would appear to be a good thing as Class A are for people who do not use hook ups often ( thats us) and Class B are for more frequent 240v sites.


We could likely have reached this magical 200 cycle point and simply have run out of usable life.We should always have used Class A but the originals came with the Autotrail from new.

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Feb 9, 2008
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Corby, Northants
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Hi,
I too have the EC500 PSU on a 2011 Autotrail and a 125 W S.P. fitted. so my set up is more or less the same as yours.
I leave my MH on the driveway, on hookup and the Sargent system monitors and charges both sets of batteries ( I have 2 x 100 AH Banner Leisure batteries and original cab battery.
However, when not on hookup the SP has managed to maintain both sets of batteries even when the van was in use. (I found by pressing the kill switch on and off the charge from the SP was re directed to the other set of batteries).
I'm a little surprised that your batteries appear to be flat yet you have a 100W SP and the EC500. So, I think you need to establish some basics before you go replacing your batteries. Firstly I would establish if both the SP and the on board charger is working and this can be confirmed by the readout at your control panel and more importantly by using a cheap muti meter on the batteries themselves. If no output, I think you will have a blown fuse. If you have got a charge going to the batteries it is possible you have a drain on the batteries that is greater than the charge going in and this needs to be tracked down and sorted if this is the case.
I think if you just swap the leisure batteries for new ones you could find yourself in the same position again unless you identify any faults and correct them. If Fitting new leisure batteries try going up a bit, not sure of your exact model but my on board charger can take up to 2 110 AH batteries.
As for choosing new batteries, look at this link. Are you certain the two batteries you have fitted are leisure batteries and not Banner starter batteries ? Check out the list of batteries in the link which shows both banner leisure and starter batteries.

http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx
 
Feb 9, 2008
8,922
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Corby, Northants
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Just checked out a link from Enword (thanks Enword) that got me to a NCC Verified Leisure Battery Scheme and very interesting reading it makes.


I presently have 2 x Class B Banner 957 51 with 200 Life Cycles 50% DoD ? the shop seems to be selling me a Class A Platinum ( 3 models ) with 500 Life Cycles


This would appear to be a good thing as Class A are for people who do not use hook ups often ( thats us) and Class B are for more frequent 240v sites.


We could likely have reached this magical 200 cycle point and simply have run out of usable life.We should always have used Class A but the originals came with the Autotrail from new.
I'm fairly sure these Class A Batteries are AGM or even Gel batteries (Probably AGM) These in deed are very good leisure batteries but your charger set up needs to be different than for a Lead Acid battery. You need to read your manuals and confirm this will be OK for your Autotrail including the SP output. Also, consider if youn do need a Class A leisure battery. If you have a S.P. and 2 leisure batteries you may well find that a Class B is sufficient for your needs. You need to make some calculations and determine what your usage is against your battery bank and SP output. Also, if you do need more power, the way forward IMO is more solar power. You can never have too much.
 
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mojo
May 1, 2009
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Hi PhilandMena
I think our posts just passed each other.Have looked at NCC info.My panel shows a fluctuating charge from the factory fitted 100w sp due to low solar this time of year but it seems to be working.I think the large drain this year was the knackered engine battery pulling on the leisures constantly rather than just asking for a top up .

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Feb 9, 2008
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Just reading through your post again and you stated after 4 days on hook up your leisure batteries were at 9.5V. This indicates to me that that either. The charger was switched off, Not switched over to Leisure batteries, i.e. charging the Cab battery only, or does not work. Check voltage at battery with charger on and should be reading around 14.4 V for a flat battery. If no reading it's probably a fuse.
If it shows that 14.V are going in but the battery is not holding the charge then your battery is goosed. (This could be due to the life cycles (200@50% DOD ) being reached and that would depend on usage and how low they were allowed to discharge. (Obviously if you only discharge 20% your going to get a lot more cycles and if you discharge more than 50% your going to get a lot less ?). I would advise you look at your usage and calculate what your drawing each 24 Hr period from your battery bank and then you can make a decision going forward on what you need so you can spend more time off hookup.
 
Feb 9, 2008
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Hi PhilandMena
I think our posts just passed each other.Have looked at NCC info.My panel shows a fluctuating charge from the factory fitted 100w sp due to low solar this time of year but it seems to be working.I think the large drain this year was the knackered engine battery pulling on the leisures constantly rather than just asking for a top up .
OK. Not sure what you mean by fluctuating charge? I would expect it to be low but constant! Perhaps 1-2 Amps depending on state of sunlight. Why would your cab battery pull your leisure batteries down ? On my Autotrail they are not connected to each other in that way. If the cab battery was to flat it would not take a draw from the Leisure batteries. Perhaps you have a different model or have had some modifications ? Either way, I would be concerned something is pulling down all 3 batteries, that does not sound right to me. Do they stay charged when on hook up ?

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mojo
May 1, 2009
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On 240v you can switch over to either type using the control panel and these show a charge when this is done by showing 14.8.This sometimes happens automatically by the Sargent when the engine needs topping up.As The Sargent literature says to leave the mains switch ON so that the leisure can supply a small charge to the engine whilst on a solar panel.The large draw at a guess is the engine being faulty and pulling the leisure down far more than the solar can replace.
This is the first winter I have done this other times the leisure have not been charging the engine and therefore still ok on our return.
 
Feb 9, 2008
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Good morning. 14.8 sounds to high to me. However, this could be due to an error in the readout compared to the actual voltage going into the batteries. According to the PX-300 (The battery charger attached to the EC500) maximum voltage will be 14.4 (bulk charge) dropping to 13.6V (float charge). I advise you to check the voltage going into the battery with a multi-meter against the display on your control panel. If you have 14.8 V going into your lead acid batteries I would bet your charger is set up for AGM or Gel batteries and needs to be re-set. Details of how you do this will be in your manuals.
It does sound as if you have a draw from your cab battery greater than what the SP can provide and if their is no fault on the system you may well need to increase the amount of S.P. power you have. Alternatively isolate the cab battery so no draw is being taken but I think you need to get it checked by someone who is more competent than me, otherwise you could be spending money on new batteries and ending up in exactly the same situation.
Best of luck.
 

KeithMak

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Nov 10, 2016
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Just a heads up, 'drop testing' is for start batteries and not for 'leisure' batteries.

It only proves that a battery can supply high energy over a short time, (engine starting) it does not prove that it can supply low energy over a long time. (lighting, tv etc.)

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OP
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mojo
May 1, 2009
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If a drop test is of no use then I suppose the only thing is to remove them and charge .Then see if they take the charge and hold it.
 

Kevan

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Jan 18, 2014
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just replace them, should really be of equal amps two 100's or whatever, but a 100amp and 75amp no, good quality starter battery, just as good as leisure battery.:xThumb:

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Nov 7, 2015
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since 2015 previously caravaning 25 years
At this time of year with dull days and short periods of strong sunlight perhaps we're expecting too much from a single 100 watt solar panel to maintain 3 large batteries in a healthy state over winter without a mains hook up.
The continuous standby draw for the Sargent and any alarm probably draw as much as the solar can produce in winter, for the rest of the year not a problem.
Allowing batteries to go flat is often the kiss of death.
 

Forestboy

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Jul 31, 2007
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Don't waste money on so called leisure batteries unless you're on ehu nearly all the time.
Go for traction here's why;

 
Feb 9, 2008
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An informative clip and demonstrates the need for independent verification and classification. However, not all 'leisure batteries' are as bad as shown in the above clip.
As an aside, how much do traction batteries cost !

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Forestboy

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Jul 31, 2007
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@PhilandMena
My tractions were £100 each delivered I have 3 x 120 amh. Had them 3 years now and they get a really hard life. The only issue is the weight they are seriously bloody heavy.
Bought them because 2 x 16 month old 115 amh Banners failed in the Alps leaving us stuck. If you compare the price and the quality the travtions are actually cheap.

Can't remember where I got them but @jonandshell gave me a link.
 
Feb 9, 2008
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Would I be right in thinking they are 6V batteries and you need 2 to make one 12 V battery and therefore 4 for 2 X 12 V Batteries. around £400 ? I watched a video clip by Sterling about Traction batteries and found it interesting. Space and Weight may be a problem for me however but will look again the next time I need to replace my lead acid batteries.
 

Forestboy

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Jul 31, 2007
5,023
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Would I be right in thinking they are 6V batteries and you need 2 to make one 12 V battery and therefore 4 for 2 X 12 V Batteries. around £400 ? I watched a video clip by Sterling about Traction batteries and found it interesting. Space and Weight may be a problem for me however but will look again the next time I need to replace my lead acid batteries.

No 12 volts

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