Weight confusion

Discussion in 'Fifth Wheelers' started by andynkim, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. andynkim

    andynkim Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Surrey
    Hi All
    1st post so be gentle, I have recently sold my motorhome and am now in the market for a 5th wheel and pickup.

    I understand most things but am a bit confused about max towing weights as these are for a normal 50mm towball do they not apply on a 5th wheel hitch?

    Can I assume if say max train weight is 6000KG and max pickup weight is 3000KG that the 5th wheel can not be more than 3000KG

    any info on truck weights would be really helpful (I am really interested in the Calder KountryLite 26RK)

    Cheers

    Andy
     
  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,455
    Likes Received:
    16,884
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    hi and welcome to the FUN!!!!

    im sure the only restrictions are the train weight and the downforce on the 5th wheel plate/pickup bed which is really irrelevant as the hitchweight will be nowhere near the load capacity of the pickup.

    you will get a lot of more definate answers soon.
     
  3. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,132
    Likes Received:
    16,342
    Location:
    Liverpool.
    And thats for sure!!!!!!!!
    Its a pity VWALAN is in Marroc.:Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:
     
  4. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,455
    Likes Received:
    16,884
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    thank goodness he is....could go on for days if not weeks...:Rofl1:
     
  5. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,132
    Likes Received:
    16,342
    Location:
    Liverpool.
    He wont be happy that he`s missed this one.
    Nothing he likes better than a good weight,length,width,DVLA,MOT,BBC,ITV,post:Rofl1::Rofl1:
     
  6. andynkim

    andynkim Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Surrey
    So do you think that a 2005 Isuzu auto 3L Diesel max train weight 5950KG would be suitable to pull a Calder KountryLite.

    The Isuzu has a min kerbweight of 1875 + 5 people about 500kg + 100kg for fuel, all luggage will be in 5th wheel so all up max weight of truck around 2500kg giving about 3450kg for the 5th wheel does that look right?

    Cheers Andy.
     
  7. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,455
    Likes Received:
    16,884
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    no problem at all.
    you can tow upto 3500kg on the 50mm ball anyway so the 5er's 3450kg will be no problem on the pin hitch, not that the ball weight has any bearing on this.
    you know the max train but you really need to know the gross weight of the isuzu....no point in overloading the pickup and leaving the 5er a bit light or vise-versa.
    what is the weight gross of the calder.
     
  8. andynkim

    andynkim Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Surrey
    Hi
    Gross weight of the Isuzu is 2950KG and pin weight of Calder is 500KG (not sure if this is a max pin weight) can't find at the mo what the gross weight of the Calder is. but I would guess around 3500kg.

    Cheers Andy
     
  9. Jackomet

    Jackomet Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    65
    Location:
    East Sussex, Europe
    Calder 5er

    New revised max weight for the Calder 26RK is 3,630 kgs, the Nissan Navara ( the satandard choice for a Calder unit) is now max train weight 6,500 kgs via SV tech. The the "average" weight of the Navara with 2 up and fluids is about 2,400 kgs. The "average" weight of a reasonably loaded 26 RK is about 3,500 kgs leaving about 100 kgs for extras. Pin weight is about 600 kgs.
    The above is taken from my rig and listening to other Calder users.
    I have been pulling the above around Europe for about 5,000 miles with no problems.
    JK
     
  10. dazzer

    dazzer Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    99
    Location:
    In my house
    Will it pull it?....Yes
    Is It Legal?.....Probably
    Is it the right vehicle for the job?.....absolutely not. It will require uprating (springs, engine mapping (superchip), brakes etc etc).

    Let me ask you this.......Would you try and knock in a 6" nail with a pin hammer :Doh:? No doubt it would eventually do the job but just because it will doesnt mean its the right tool for the job does it?

    Buy a vehicle capable of doing what you ask with something in reserve, instead of using something that needs to be modified to allow it to work at 100% of its capability :thumb:
     
  11. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,455
    Likes Received:
    16,884
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    you mean something like this dazzer.

    [​IMG]

    :Rofl1:
     
  12. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,132
    Likes Received:
    16,342
    Location:
    Liverpool.
    I do tend to agree here, 6.5 tons with a 3 litre lump does not seem a lot.
    What hapens on a windy day with a strong headwind, or when climbing mountain ranges.
    Will the brakes hold when coming down long inclines without a jake brake.
    Theres a lot of bulk and weight there for a Euro pickup truck to pull and hold back coming down mountains.
    IMO if I was looking at a 5r I would only consider a 7.5 truck or a Dodge ram 350 with the Cummins,but there again thats only my opinion based on a lifetime of truck driving.
     
  13. dazzer

    dazzer Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    99
    Location:
    In my house
    Now you mention it, one of those would do the job quite nicely :thumb::Wink:
     
  14. Landy lover

    Landy lover Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,024
    Likes Received:
    3,501
    Location:
    Zummerzet
    While I can understand where you are coming from with this comment a point worth chucking in the pot is a lot is down to torque - torque band and power available - some of the euro pickups are just not built for hard towing work - might have the capability on paper but when asked to do it day in day out just cannot hack it.

    Regarding a jake brake - this would only be on a vehicle with air brakes and would only control the towing vehicle not the trailer - a properly set up 5'er would have an electronic brake control which has a lever underneath that allows the driver to apply the trailer brakes to be applied independantly of the vehicle which is the best option when decending hills.

    The choice of truck is controlled by many things and while I agree the 7.5 Tonne option is the best for long hauls - many people would have to take a different licence to tow a 5'er and many of the camp sites that are just about accepting a 5'er would have a fit if a rig came in with a 7.5 tonne tug - I have found with some they happily accept us but refuse rigs with american trucks :Eeek:

    For the record we have a Niche Eurolight 27ft with a superslide max weight at 3450kg
    pulled with a Land Rover 2.5 Td5 Crewcab XS HD version gross Max front axle 1580kg
    max rear axle 2200kg max vehicle 3450kg max Train 7000kg we are full timers and me and the missus with all our kit on board and a tank of water run at about 6.2 to 6.4 tonnes and return 22/23 mpg as a norm. It pulls like a train and despite many peoples thoughts is very comfortable we towed for just over 5000 miles in 2009 :thumb::restmycase:
     
  15. derekfaeberwick

    derekfaeberwick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,131
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Berwick
    You think American's do brakes?:Eeek:
     
  16. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,723
    Likes Received:
    939
    Location:
    cheshire
    I pull with an isuzu the unit is a niche supplied x-tremelite 27'.
    My understanding be it right or wrong is that when it comes to the powers that be - if your combined weight is more than the permisable gross/mass weight on your towing vehicle plate, when and if they pull you in to weigh you then you will be fined and most probably not be allowed to continue your journey.

    as an aside -My isuzu is the 2.5 denver max and handles my 5ver well. The niche units though are lighter than the calder ones.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  17. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Cotswolds
    Referring back to the OP, I think there are 2 issues here.
    1. Is the proposition legal?
    and
    2. Is it sensible?

    If it meets both of those criteria then I would go for it.
    My issue has never been with the power to weight ratio of a particular pick up and 5'er combination, we all have different ideas of fast and slow anyway :BigGrin::BigGrin:. I am more concerned about my ability to stop my outfit without it giving me a heart attack or brown trousers :Rofl1::Rofl1:

    As for difficulties on camp sites I have a bright yellow F250 pick up and have never ever prompted as much as a raised eyebrow, as opposed to the Transit outfit I saw turned away at one of the sites.

    You pays your money.........................etc

    HTH

    Rob
     
  18. LesAshmore

    LesAshmore Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    40
    Location:
    Chesterfield, Derbyshire
    Hi AndynKim. It is not calculated as anything to do with the towball, It is the gross Train weight, ie your pick up has a gross train weight of say 6500 kgs, and it weighs loaded say 2200 kgs, The Trailer weighs say 3200 kgs so the trailer = 3200 kg + the Pick up = 2200 kg Total of 5400 kg That means that you can carry a payload of upto 1100 kg to make your gross train weight up, Your pin weight is the amount of weight on the front (Pin) of your fifth wheel.
    :Smile:

    It really makes me smile, No Laugh when individuals that have probably never towed a Fifth wheel come and start telling you that you have the wrong kit, Forget them and ignore them I do, I think it is just an attempt to draw your attention to a piece of equipment they have that would probably never be suitable for the job of towing a fifth wheel unit.

    There are a very large number of owners that use standard pick ups ie Isuzu, Navara, Hilux and so on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  19. LesAshmore

    LesAshmore Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    40
    Location:
    Chesterfield, Derbyshire
    Afraid it wouldn't Dazzer, Not enough on bottom end, It would burn box out quicker than you could get to 60 MPH, That is if the shafts could cope, It is no good trying something for pulling that is made for speed, I have an M6 Convertible and at 4999 cc and 0 - 60 a bit quicker than yours I would never dream of trying to tow with it.
    :Rofl1:
     
  20. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Cotswolds
    So Les,according to your profile you are running an A Class motorhome, exactly which brand of fifth wheel is that then. Or maybe you have not updated your profile, Tsk Tsk,:Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:
     

Share This Page