understanding oil (1 Viewer)

[mick noe]

or rather not understanding the labelling sae api etc. in the hand book for the van 97 2500 turbo ducato it says sae 15 40 api cd,ccmc pd2 which I cannot find on of Halfords etc shelf
will a modern 15 40 or 10 40 semi sinthetic api sl/cf acea a3 b3 fit the bill?
If not...... in modern labeling what should I look for please

 

[pappajohn]

could be wrong but i think the various abbreviations are for different countries ie: same vehicle sold in 10 different countries.

SAE or API 15/40

most oil is now synthetic or semi synthetic.......cheap oils are usually mineral based and really cheap ones are recycled.

 

[American Dream]

Hi..

I'd use a semi Synthetic 10w40:thumb:

Plus a good oil filter.

Running Fully Synthetic in my diesel but this costs....

Steve.

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[Landy lover]

This may help - or not as the case may be - there are two basic specifications American API and European ACEA the rest of it is approvals for different uses - as you will see some of them go back in history but if you are looking for an approval for your old classic then you need to see it on the tin.

PETROL
SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.
SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability.
SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits
SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards
SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.
Note:
All specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications.
DIESEL
CD - Introduced 1955, international standard for turbo diesel engine oils for many years, uses single cylinder test engine only
CE - Introduced 1984, improved control of oil consumption, oil thickening, piston deposits and wear, uses additional multi cylinder test engines
CF4 - Introduced 1990, further improvements in control of oil consumption and piston deposits, uses low emission test engine
CF - Introduced 1994, modernised version of CD, reverts to single cylinder low emission test engine. Intended for certain indirect injection engines
CF2 - Introduced 1994, defines effective control of cylinder deposits and ring face scuffing, intended for 2 stroke diesel engines
CG4 - Introduced 1994, development of CF4 giving improved control of piston deposits, wear, oxidation stability and soot entrainment. Uses low sulphur diesel fuel in engine tests
CH4 - Introduced 1998, development of CG4, giving further improvements in control of soot related wear and piston deposits, uses more comprehensive engine test program to include low and high sulphur fuels
CI4 Introduced 2002, developed to meet 2004 emission standards, may be used where EGR ( exhaust gas recirculation ) systems are fitted and with fuel containing up to 0.5 % sulphur. May be used where API CD, CE, CF4, CG4 and CH4 oils are specified.
Note:
All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications.
If you want a better more up to date oil specification then look for SL, SM, CH4, CI4
ACEA
This is the European equivalent of API (US) and is more specific in what the performance of the oil actually is. A = Petrol, B = Diesel and C = Catalyst compatible or low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur).
Unlike API the ACEA specs are split into performance/application catagories as follows:
A1 Fuel economy petrol
A2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
A3 High performance and/or extended drain
A4 Reserved for future use in certain direct injection engines
A5 Combines A1 fuel economy with A3 performance
B1 Fuel economy diesel
B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
B3 High performance and/or extended drain
before For direct injection car diesel engines
B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/before performance
C1-04 Petrol and Light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 low SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C2-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C3-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible, Higher performance levels due to higher HTHS.
Note: SAPS = Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulphur.
Put simply, A3/B3, A5/B5 and C3 oils are the better quality, stay in grade performance oils.
APPROVALS
Many oils mention various OEM's on the bottle, the most common in the UK being VW, MB or BMW but do not be misled into thinking that you are buying a top oil because of this.
Oil Companies send their oils to OEM's for approval however some older specs are easily achieved and can be done so with the cheapest of mineral oils. Newer specifications are always more up to date and better quality/performance than the older ones.
Some of the older OEM specifications are listed here and depending on the performance level of your car are best ignored if you are looking for a quality high performance oil:
VW - 500.00, 501.00 and 505.00
Later specs like 503, 504, 506 and 507 are better performing more up to date oils
MB - 229.1
Later specs like 229.3 and 229.5 are better performing more up to date oils.
BMW - LL98
Later specs like LL01 and LL04 are better performing more up to date oils.

 

[callumwa]

This may help - or not as the case may be - there are two basic specifications American API and European ACEA the rest of it is approvals for different uses - as you will see some of them go back in history but if you are looking for an approval for your old classic then you need to see it on the tin.

PETROL
SG - Introduced 1989 has much more active dispersant to combat black sludge.
SH - Introduced 1993 has same engine tests as SG, but includes phosphorus limit 0.12%, together with control of foam, volatility and shear stability.
SJ - Introduced 1996 has the same engine tests as SG/SH, but phosphorus limit 0.10% together with variation on volatility limits
SL - Introduced 2001, all new engine tests reflective of modern engine designs meeting current emissions standards
SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit protection and wear protection, also better low temperature performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.
Note:
All specifications prior to SL are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date SL and SM specifications.
DIESEL
CD - Introduced 1955, international standard for turbo diesel engine oils for many years, uses single cylinder test engine only
CE - Introduced 1984, improved control of oil consumption, oil thickening, piston deposits and wear, uses additional multi cylinder test engines
CF4 - Introduced 1990, further improvements in control of oil consumption and piston deposits, uses low emission test engine
CF - Introduced 1994, modernised version of CD, reverts to single cylinder low emission test engine. Intended for certain indirect injection engines
CF2 - Introduced 1994, defines effective control of cylinder deposits and ring face scuffing, intended for 2 stroke diesel engines
CG4 - Introduced 1994, development of CF4 giving improved control of piston deposits, wear, oxidation stability and soot entrainment. Uses low sulphur diesel fuel in engine tests
CH4 - Introduced 1998, development of CG4, giving further improvements in control of soot related wear and piston deposits, uses more comprehensive engine test program to include low and high sulphur fuels
CI4 Introduced 2002, developed to meet 2004 emission standards, may be used where EGR ( exhaust gas recirculation ) systems are fitted and with fuel containing up to 0.5 % sulphur. May be used where API CD, CE, CF4, CG4 and CH4 oils are specified.
Note:
All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications.
If you want a better more up to date oil specification then look for SL, SM, CH4, CI4
ACEA
This is the European equivalent of API (US) and is more specific in what the performance of the oil actually is. A = Petrol, B = Diesel and C = Catalyst compatible or low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur).
Unlike API the ACEA specs are split into performance/application catagories as follows:
A1 Fuel economy petrol
A2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
A3 High performance and/or extended drain
A4 Reserved for future use in certain direct injection engines
A5 Combines A1 fuel economy with A3 performance
B1 Fuel economy diesel
B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
B3 High performance and/or extended drain
before For direct injection car diesel engines
B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/before performance
C1-04 Petrol and Light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 low SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C2-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C3-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible, Higher performance levels due to higher HTHS.
Note: SAPS = Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous and Sulphur.
Put simply, A3/B3, A5/B5 and C3 oils are the better quality, stay in grade performance oils.
APPROVALS
Many oils mention various OEM's on the bottle, the most common in the UK being VW, MB or BMW but do not be misled into thinking that you are buying a top oil because of this.
Oil Companies send their oils to OEM's for approval however some older specs are easily achieved and can be done so with the cheapest of mineral oils. Newer specifications are always more up to date and better quality/performance than the older ones.
Some of the older OEM specifications are listed here and depending on the performance level of your car are best ignored if you are looking for a quality high performance oil:
VW - 500.00, 501.00 and 505.00
Later specs like 503, 504, 506 and 507 are better performing more up to date oils
MB - 229.1
Later specs like 229.3 and 229.5 are better performing more up to date oils.
BMW - LL98
Later specs like LL01 and LL04 are better performing more up to date oils.

Clear as mucky old oil now......

Now where is the filler cap, I think I've lost my dipstick?

 

[pappajohn]

Mmm!!! looks like i was wrong oh::Blush:

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[mick noe]

OMG (do I sound young and hip) am I simplifying things to much by saying that even relativity cheap semi synthetic 10/40 15/40 oils out perform older specified oils and can be used no problems? No worries of turbo seizing/ pistons arriving uninvited in my lap? thank you all for your linput and intrest. bye the bye off to france on the 10th so if days drag until then sorry its my faultoh:

 

[Geo]

To simplify things a bit
your engine spec calls for
15/40 semi synthetic oil
or
10/30 fully synthetic oil
All modern oils out perform the cf-b3-96 rating given
Geo