underfilling Gas-It cylinder? (1 Viewer)

gerry mcg

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2016
1,648
2,570
Glasgow, Scotland
Funster No
44,285
MH
Globecar 600L Revn
Exp
since 2016
i’ve refilled my single 11kg gas-it system 3 times now -
the first time on installation, it took 22L (circa 11kg) as expected,
but the two times when i’ve filled it since then (when the notoriously unreliable clip on gauge has read empty), it has only taken 12L ((circa 6kg) before the gas pump has shut off -

when the gauge is reading empty, the bottle feels light but it is hard to remember the empty weight and whether the bottle could have an extra 6kg of gas in it - but i’m reluctant to disconnect the bottle and give it a good slosh around - but but neither time has the gas run out in the MH - so i know I’m filling up before it is empty - I’m just trying to gauge usage - and whether my system is working.

what are the thoughts? is the poor performance of the fill gauge pretty normal and just keep filling it periodically as i use it?
 
Last edited:

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,489
66,013
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
Similar here, we've got a 11kg and 6kg bottle, we've been running on supposedly 'empty' with the 11kg bottle for nearly a week now (the other one is turned off) and it's only just started to be less 'gassy' so we've now turned the smaller one on and the larger one off. We'll fill up if we find it cheap tomorrow, otherwise will wait until we get home as it would actually be cheaper in the UK than here - around 53p a litre UK (approx as opposed to around 75c here).

What you also have to bear in mind is that with your first fill your bottle would have been completely empty, but for subsequent fills there would still have been some LPG in that couldn't 'gas' off as there wasn't sufficient in it to do so, so you'll never ever fill them to the maximum level again unless you first empty out the remaining liquid totally, which of course you don't need to do.
 

vwalan

Funster
Sep 23, 2008
8,835
5,798
roche cornwall
Funster No
4,148
MH
lynton5th wheel
Exp
since a child
all the liquid will and can gas off . as the pressure drops the liquid gases . its only liquid when its under pressure . its really the poor quality style of gauges thats the problem.
compress gas and you get the liquid .

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Feb 24, 2013
12,991
101,181
Bolsover, Derbyshire
Funster No
24,833
MH
Hymer S800
Exp
not long enough
I know a few folk that have only a single refillable bottle, I reckon that must multiply fear of running out many times over, even if the gauge doesn't say empty, I could convince myself it was :)

Could you fit another smaller cylinder in, then you only need to fill when you know it has run out (y)
 

vwalan

Funster
Sep 23, 2008
8,835
5,798
roche cornwall
Funster No
4,148
MH
lynton5th wheel
Exp
since a child
on just about every gas bottle is a tare weight stamped on . use parcel spring balance scales and weigh the bottle . much more accurate than the gauges . mind these days digital scales are available .
 

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007
The gauges are really inaccurate. We can go a couple of weeks and it's showing full then all of a sudden, it shows empty and we can run off an 'empty' cylinder for 2/3 weeks. However, we did have 2 fitted at the same time so when it runs out, I switch then look over the next week for filling. Never put more than £10.00 in yet!!!!

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
gerry mcg

gerry mcg

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2016
1,648
2,570
Glasgow, Scotland
Funster No
44,285
MH
Globecar 600L Revn
Exp
since 2016
on just about every gas bottle is a tare weight stamped on . use parcel spring balance scales and weigh the bottle . much more accurate than the gauges . mind these days digital scales are available .
the issue is that one it is fitted and gas tight i would need to (an am reluctant to) disconnect it all to check the actual weight.
 
OP
OP
gerry mcg

gerry mcg

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2016
1,648
2,570
Glasgow, Scotland
Funster No
44,285
MH
Globecar 600L Revn
Exp
since 2016
I know a few folk that have only a single refillable bottle, I reckon that must multiply fear of running out many times over, even if the gauge doesn't say empty, I could convince myself it was :)

Could you fit another smaller cylinder in, then you only need to fill when you know it has run out (y)
yes i could - but i don’t know if i need to yet - i could always fit a 6kg one as a spare ....
 

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007
the issue is that one it is fitted and gas tight i would need to (an am reluctant to) disconnect it all to check the actual weight.
Are you really that worried how much gas you have in your cylinder?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

movan

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 2, 2009
21,492
120,752
Moving around
Funster No
9,543
MH
Burstner
Exp
since07
Just a thought .. which may be a silly one .. when filling, if both cylinders are closed, will the filler fill one and then top up the other one or will it just fill the most empty one?
 

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007
strange question.
yes - i want to gauge how much i am using for trips that refilling might be an issue
Well won't that depend on the time of year, how much you cook, how many times you're on EHU, how cold it is. Too many variables. Before I had my refillable cylinders fitted, I always had a 6kg and a 10kg full that cost around £50.00 exchange but I did 3 weeks last year and put £9.98 in to fill.
Unfortunately the gauges are not accurate enough for what you want but if you want to, you need to take out, weigh it every day and replace and that might give you a mean average of consumption or when the gauge reads empty, fill up and note how much you used since last fill. Similar to fuel consumption in a car.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
gerry mcg

gerry mcg

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2016
1,648
2,570
Glasgow, Scotland
Funster No
44,285
MH
Globecar 600L Revn
Exp
since 2016
well, yes it does, but i know how many nights i’ve been away and how much i have used the heating & water since the last fill and this is the basis for my expected usage
 

EX51SSS

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 18, 2015
6,073
28,561
North Manchester
Funster No
37,198
MH
Hymer Exsis A Class
Exp
since 2007
well, yes it does, but i know how many nights i’ve been away and how much i have used the heating & water since the last fill and this is the basis for my expected usage
Ok, well calculate those facts and fill up and that will give you the true consumption.
I'm not bothered what my fuel gauge says but when I fill up, I know the mpg and even with those facts to hand, I couldn't say how long my fuel will last because so many variables, like how many days at this site, traffic, how far to next Aire and how long there but it's a guide
 

Riverbankannie

LIFE MEMBER
Mar 11, 2016
10,432
60,972
Bristol
Funster No
41,967
MH
IH 630 RL PVC
Exp
12
strange question.
yes - i want to gauge how much i am using for trips that refilling might be an issue
I agree, it is a really tricky thing. Our gas tank is underslung so cannot do the weighing it thing. I ran it with gauge on empty for a few days last year and then managed to fill up with 8 Litres in my 25 litre tank.
I know last year we ran for 6 weeks on a mixture of sites and stellplatz without EHU (about half and half) and even then only got in 5euros worth.
I would be happier if gauge more accurate but I don't think there is an answer.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
May 8, 2016
1,685
78,516
silver coast, portugal
Funster No
42,972
MH
C Class: Low profile
Exp
Boatie for 20 years
I have yet to replace my portable (11 kg single) cylinder with a Gas It version, and will do it after the next trip as the clock is ticking

For those worrying about an emergency and running out, less than £20 buys you a camping gaz stove (cartridges available everywhere) as an emergency back up. Not a perfect solution, but works for survival

On the weighing issue, perhaps an idea to weigh the Gas It bottle empty, note the tare weight, then leave the scales attach, so you only have to lift it onto a hook in the gas compartment?

Sorry if speaking out of my backside, but the whole refillable gas issue is still new to me
 
OP
OP
gerry mcg

gerry mcg

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2016
1,648
2,570
Glasgow, Scotland
Funster No
44,285
MH
Globecar 600L Revn
Exp
since 2016
Fwiw, one of the recent threads seemed to indicate the GasLow bottles have a more sophisticated level measuring device in them than the gas it ones. Don't know if this is true or not.
I also don't the you can use the ultrasonic level guages on refillable bottles due to the interior gubbins in the refillable bottles.
 
OP
OP
gerry mcg

gerry mcg

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 28, 2016
1,648
2,570
Glasgow, Scotland
Funster No
44,285
MH
Globecar 600L Revn
Exp
since 2016
TBH, I'm quite happily if all the use I have had has only used a half bottle. I was worried in case the bottles was actually almond empty and somehow I was only managing to half fill it each time.
I guess the only way to really know is to gun it until empty and then refill, by id rather not get caught out with an empty bottle whilst finding out!

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Feb 4, 2016
2,784
2,127
West Sussex, UK
Funster No
41,567
MH
Hymer B680 Starline
Exp
Long term a few years now.
TBH, I'm quite happily if all the use I have had has only used a half bottle. I was worried in case the bottles was actually almond empty and somehow I was only managing to half fill it each time.
I guess the only way to really know is to gun it until empty and then refill, by id rather not get caught out with an empty bottle whilst finding out!

I long term in my mh and was thinking about getting one refillable sorted to use, with a space left for another bottle for wherever we are as a back up incase we cant find lpg.
 

Allanm

Free Member
Jun 30, 2013
5,431
9,191
Cotes d'armor, France
Funster No
26,730
MH
Burstner Harmony TI 736 G
Exp
Since 1987
We have a Gas-it 11kg bottle, after a few days use, I try and check the clip on gauge daily waiting for it to register empty, I know then that I have between 4-6 litres left, enough to enable me to get to a fill point.
We ran out in December last year, -6 outside and almost as cold inside ( we left a skylight open!), and on a Sunday in Suffolk. We eventually managed to find a garage that sold lpg and filled it with just under 22 litres, so it would appear that it almost drained itself completely.
The gauges are very inaccurate and unreliable.
 
Feb 27, 2011
14,671
74,882
UK
Funster No
15,452
MH
Self Build
Exp
Since 2005
Fwiw, one of the recent threads seemed to indicate the GasLow bottles have a more sophisticated level measuring device in them than the gas it ones. Don't know if this is true or not.
I also don't the you can use the ultrasonic level guages on refillable bottles due to the interior gubbins in the refillable bottles.
I have one of each and they are identically crap.

For me, the best solution was to have 2 identical cyclinders. I use the first one and once that is empty I start looking for a refill. Depending on the time of year dictates how urgently. In the coldest winter I have to find a refill in a week as I have between 8 and 10 days per cylinder. In the summer I can go for months.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,489
66,013
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
Just a thought .. which may be a silly one .. when filling, if both cylinders are closed, will the filler fill one and then top up the other one or will it just fill the most empty one?
Having the cylinders closed has no effect when filling (except that it prevents the remote chance of any liquid gas getting in to the regulator accidentally or if there's a fault whilst you do so). As for filling, both bottles, if empty, will fill at the same time, if one is full, only the empty one will be topped up.

For a single cylinder set-up the cylinder itself has 2 inlets/outlets: the filler hose connects to one and the other has the hose to the regulator attached (which has only 1 inlet).

To change to a twin cylinder set-up there are two slightly different cylinders used: the original no 1 cylinder which has has two inlets/outlets but the no 2 cylinder has three inlets/outlets. The filler hose attaches to the 1st connector on the no 2 cylinder, the 2nd one has a hose attached that links it to the no 1 cylinder, and the 3rd is to connect the no 2 cylinder to the regulator - this needs to have an additional 'T' piece connector to allow turn the single regulator inlet into a twin inlet, so the pipes from both cylinders to be attached to it. Still with me????

In effect, the original no 1 cylinder becomes the 'slave' instead of the 'master' as with the single set up.
 

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,489
66,013
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
I have yet to replace my portable (11 kg single) cylinder with a Gas It version, and will do it after the next trip as the clock is ticking

For those worrying about an emergency and running out, less than £20 buys you a camping gaz stove (cartridges available everywhere) as an emergency back up. Not a perfect solution, but works for survival

On the weighing issue, perhaps an idea to weigh the Gas It bottle empty, note the tare weight, then leave the scales attach, so you only have to lift it onto a hook in the gas compartment?

Sorry if speaking out of my backside, but the whole refillable gas issue is still new to me
Unfortunately Camping Gaz it appears isn't as available as it was apparently, we've met a couple from NZ who've holidayed in their MH for 3 months each year for the past 6/7 years in mainland Europe and have always used camping gas but this year have found it less available so have now bought one of the Ebay 'adaptors' to allow them to fill their 'non-user refillable' bottles (he's fully aware of the risks involved and has put in place a system so he doesn't risk over-filling).

Just a second though and re-reading your post above I think you mean the stoves that work off the aerosol type cartridges and not exchange Camping Gaz cylinders in which case my comments above aren't relevant to your suggestion (except that there are cheaper version of the cartridge stoves around than the branded ones) but nonetheless useful if people were thinking they could get exchange CG cylinders easily.

Your 'in locker' weighing method might work but it would need to be done taking into account the extra weight that the attached hoses added for a more accurate reading.
 

maz

Jan 26, 2011
4,445
7,666
Bizeljsko, Slovenia
Funster No
15,094
MH
N+B Arto
Exp
Since March 2011
Fwiw, one of the recent threads seemed to indicate the GasLow bottles have a more sophisticated level measuring device in them than the gas it ones. Don't know if this is true or not.
I also don't the you can use the ultrasonic level guages on refillable bottles due to the interior gubbins in the refillable bottles.
After having at least 4 (I lost count) Gaslow cylinders replaced due to a sticking internal float thingy (coupled magnetically to the clip-on gauges), Gaslow swapped our bottles for the new R67 version with a much more accurate gauge mechanism. (y)

And no, you can't use the ultrasonic gauges on refillable bottles because, as you say, the interior gubbins get in the way.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,489
66,013
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
After having at least 4 (I lost count) Gaslow cylinders replaced due to a sticking internal float thingy (coupled magnetically to the clip-on gauges), Gaslow swapped our bottles for the new R67 version with a much more accurate gauge mechanism. (y)

And no, you can't use the ultrasonic gauges on refillable bottles because, as you say, the interior gubbins get in the way.
I hate the 'wheel' on the R67 cylinders ... not the easiest thing in the world to grab hold of in the confines of the gas locker ... much prefer the larger 'old style' one that I can really get a grip of!
 
Mar 23, 2012
9,447
31,631
sleights
Funster No
20,245
MH
c class
Exp
1
Same with our gasit I'm sure it reads empty when nearly half full its the gague thats unreliable going to France with only one cyl for 2 1/2 weeks soon so will probably find out!!!
 

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,489
66,013
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
Right, I've dug out my refil info ... we filled it up yesterday before coming home today (brrrrrrrrrrr .... how I wish I was still back in France, Spain, Portugal .... munching 'pastel de nata' pastries ... mmmm ....).

... Oooops, sorry, got carried away there :D2

Anyway having not used the smaller 6kg cylinder at all we knew it was still full but the 11kg one had been running on 'empty' for around a week (possibly more!) and when we topped it up we got 19.4 litres in at a cost of 64.8p a litre. We work on an average of 1 litre a day in good weather and since 19 April we've used just 26.44 litres, so that works out at approx 0.9 litre a day (30 days), so when it was showing 'empty' it had at least 9 litres still in it!

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
May 8, 2016
1,685
78,516
silver coast, portugal
Funster No
42,972
MH
C Class: Low profile
Exp
Boatie for 20 years
Unfortunately Camping Gaz it appears isn't as available as it was apparently, we've met a couple from NZ who've holidayed in their MH for 3 months each year for the past 6/7 years in mainland Europe and have always used camping gas but this year have found it less available so have now bought one of the Ebay 'adaptors' to allow them to fill their 'non-user refillable' bottles (he's fully aware of the risks involved and has put in place a system so he doesn't risk over-filling).

Just a second though and re-reading your post above I think you mean the stoves that work off the aerosol type cartridges and not exchange Camping Gaz cylinders in which case my comments above aren't relevant to your suggestion (except that there are cheaper version of the cartridge stoves around than the branded ones) but nonetheless useful if people were thinking they could get exchange CG cylinders easily.

Your 'in locker' weighing method might work but it would need to be done taking into account the extra weight that the attached hoses added for a more accurate reading.
Thanks for the response. Yes, I did mean the disposable cartridges, which are everywhere

In our case we have diesel heating, so gas is not so important. A small CG burner takes up no space, so I always keep it handy in case of a gas emergency

I am so struggling on gas issues. Our Chausson 515 states in instructions it can take a 13Kg bottle. I'm unsure if this means the French standard bottle, but we got it supplied with a 6Kg bottle and have to carry a spare in the locker (strapped upright, but takes space, etc)

Spending most of our time in Portugal, this causes a problem, basically we are carrying spare UK bottles. Can't fathom out what adaptors we can use with the existing regulator/tails. Logically the answer will be adaptors to get us through this year, then Gaslow (or Gasit) in October when we are back.

Hence the emergency CG to get us out of a fix. But I would prefer to source an adaptor so that we can just use Portuguese bottles until we can put in a refillable system
 

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,489
66,013
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
@pyro, it should take a larger UK Calor bottle (when we had a Chausson Flash 04 it would only accommodate one cylinder which was meant to be a 13kg Calor one), so the larger 11kg Gaslow/Gasit type should fit when you go down that route as they are slightly smaller than Calor.

I'm sure someone on the campsite (or wherever you are) would be able to help you identify where you can get hold of the pigtails to fit a Portuguese cylinder, there are so many Brits out there so someone's bound to be close by you ... a bit like rats ... supposedly there is always at least one within 6ft of you :LOL:.
 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top