unbraked a-frame

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by robinmclaren, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

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    i know a-frame are a sore subject but
    is a unbraked a frame on a small light car legal or not
    these were fitted up to last year by several of the a-frame companys to small cars
    i know loads are used without any problem, has anyone been stopped for using one

    i agree that heavy cars need a braked a frame , despite the brakes being crap without servo, but it helps
     
  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Nope !!!

    the car is fitted with brakes and the law states if fitted they must all work to EC efficiency guidelines.

    this makes a mockery of cars like the aixim which is under 750kg but because it is fitted with brakes they must work anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2009
  3. Braunston

    Braunston Read Only Funster

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    Hi,

    I agree with pappajohn, only one thing i would add, there is more than one way to get the brakes if fitted to work, so i would think an un-braked "A" frame with a Brake-buddy could possibly be the equivalent to a braked "A" frame that incorporates a cable attached to the foot pedal coupled to an ALKO overrun device.

    Hope that makes sense.

    As for the brakes working without a servo, I believe someone on here carried out a test, and if I have it correct the brakes without the servo assistance actually met the minimum standards, this needs to be confirmed but I think that's what happened.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2009
  4. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    From the national trailer and towing associations website....

    in particular items B, C, D.
    trailer towing


    so going by this info a 'brake buddy' isnt technicaly legal in the uk
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2009
  5. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

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    has anyone been stopped

    i know the official answer but has anyone been stopped using them and of all the hundreds fitted by companies in the uk and used all the time has anyone had a problem
    my car on a frame weighs only slightly more than my ifor williams trailer when up to its 1/2 ton load limit and car is less noticable than trailer in fact the car does not effect braking or acceleration where trailer does
    does this mean all the unbraked a-frames were removed and braked ones fitted ?
    i do work for a mot station and dvla inspector and neither of these have questioned it but did question the brake efficincy on my old braked a-frame on the ka !
     
  6. Braunston

    Braunston Read Only Funster

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    Hi, I don't want to get into the legal arguments

     
  7. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    un braked aframe for recovery work .is ok. not for toad use. but combine it with the brake buddy, or this new nintendo kit .yes.
    you can also have it worked by the brake lights or hydrolics working switches that use the brake pedal. alot of 5ers use a similer system.
    you could change the hitch to braked.
    even the m,bike monacle tows are tecnically ilegal if not for recovery.
    i have loads of recovery gear here did it for awhile. we could get away with just about anything ,even did registered police recovery work. all they want is vehicles moved.
    its a shame as there are some lovelly aframes out there now strong and light. and what can we say my truck can pull upto 7,000 kg in total with an un braked trailer. yet if i pull my artic trailer it must have the brakes working on trailer.its the same weight as before . daft isnt it.
     
  8. Braunston

    Braunston Read Only Funster

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    Hi,

    I believe you can still purchase un-braked "A" frames, I think the problem comes if you want one of the main supplies to fit it, as from my experience they only offered to fit a braked one to my toad. Albeit I think one of them used to offer the unbraked with a BrakeBuddy as a choice, don't know if they still do,, have you checked out the various suppliers web sites.



     
  9. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    best not usethe trailer association stuff as they arent quite right its only a guide.
    just like caravan club guide . draw bar trailers on trucks arent dampered so that makes a mokery of that rule. electric brakes are legal look on dft web sites there is mentionof them. .
    servos dont give you better brakes they just make them easier to apply. thats why its called servo assisted brakes.
    as for the vosa man he should be able to run all this by his higher arcky and come back to you with it easy to understand.
    i recently spoke to intertrade about this subject. they still do universal frames unbraked for recovery .but told me they would stand by a customer that bought a braked universal frame from them. i believe they were the original a frame producers in the uk. i certainly remember going to auctions with my uncle as a child and him using an aframe that looked very similer to mine .
     
  10. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    was never meant to be an argument mate :thumb:

    just pointing out the 'regs'
     
  11. Braunston

    Braunston Read Only Funster

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    Hi, I am sure you didn't, and I certainly don't want to turn this thread into the same as the others on this subject, that's why I always steer away from quoting any regulations when it comes to "A" frames as the regs have been discussed on here so many times, and they nearly always start an argument, as people seem to pick on the part that suits there point of view and forget the parts that don't so I see no reason to raise them now, :thumb:

    I actually think the subject of "A" frames should be banned from all forums, and to add to that THIS will be my last post on any thread including this one that remotely mentions "A" frames.

    BYE



     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2009
  12. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

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    if we stick to the official rules is anyone else out there braking the law by towing a car with brakes fitted that do not work when towing !!!

    i wonder how many are and are curious to find out if it is just me ( naughty lad ):cry:

    the law is so easy to break nowadays :Doh:

    i was driving my works van ( my company/my van ) enjoying a smoke and when i saw a police car sitting at the side of the road i hid my cigarette out of site , smoking in a works vehicle, driving without due care and attention , etc , etc , it is becoming impossible to do anything and stay legal now:Blush:
     
  13. Larrynwin

    Larrynwin Funster

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    You may never be stopped or prosecuted while using an unbraked A frame but what if you have a prang ?????? You could lose much more if you insurers don't pay up !!
     
  14. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i think we all know unbraked a frames are illegal. yes i still use one . i always carry a business card with my old garage name on it the phone no is mine so i am still doing recovery,s . have towed all over uk and europe never been stopped but ready if i am.
    of course that dont make it correct or legal.
    yes i see loads on the road.
    i made the decision 10 yr ago towing a car behind a big camper or truck is not easy so went the 5er way . makes sense to me.
    i think aframes are excellent bits of kit but day in day out for pleasure no thank you. also i could never reverse an aframe where i can my trailer .couldnt reverse a car trailer either.
     
  15. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

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    interesting answer
    i know we have a group vehile policy to cover our vehicles and our nippa is isured fully comp while hitched or unhitched for sd&p and also buisness as sometimes take it with us while working away , i know that we declared a unbraked a frame was fitted as no manufacturers name on it , i would only anticipate a legal problem it hitch broke while towing but will check with them:Eeek:

    so many answers and views from so many people isnt it great
     
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