Two Leisure Batteries - How do I maintain over winter (1 Viewer)

[yorkieman]

We have two leisure batteries in the MH. In previous years I have been stupid and just left them in, but this year I am going to get them out as we're putting the MH to sleep for the winter.

I figured I could take the batteries out and put them in the garage. Should I hook them up to some kind of trickle charger? Do I need a trickle charger for each one or can I just keep alternating? Any recommendations for which charger would be best.

Thanks for any help.

 

[sewinlynne2]

Hi. Details of the batteries will help. Power rating etc. Do you have any sort of a solar setup for them? In the meantime, its important to store batteries properly for over winter. Keep them from freezing temperatures, preferably up off the cold floor- anywhere reasonably warm is perfect-garage etc. Are they sealed for life ones or otherwise? Are they the same as each other? If they are labelled/known leisure batteries they do not need trickle charging over time as such as they are a deep cycle sort. That is to say they are capable of powering your electrical needs over a period of time rather than providing a large surge for starting a car engine. Leisure batteries are best charged up using a normal charger. They will keep their charge well for a few months when can then be done again. The charger decides how much it needs. Post some more details-you will get plenty of advice.

 

[Jaws]

Be VERY careful with trickle chargers.. A certain very well known make in the bike world is commonly referred to as a battery killer
As already said, store in a warm( wellllll about about 10c ) place off the floor.
Personally, I would not bother with a trickle charge..
I would just give them a normal charge after about 10 weeks..

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[PhilandMena]

As above, Charge them in situ.

 

[aandncaravan]

We agree with Jaws.
If they are Banner wet batteries, which have around a 10% a month discharge rate, you might need to charge more often, like every 5 weeks? Watch the fluid level as they are very thirsty.
If they are good and quality modern technology batteries like the Varta LFD range they should discharge at less than 1% a month so shouldn't actually need much of a charge for about 6 months.

The above assumes the batteries are perfect and not already tiring?.

Most Trickle chargers will degrade a battery if used for more than a few weeks. Unless it is one of the new Victron Energy chargers that have an ultra low 12.9v/13.0v trickle/maintenance charge rather than the usual 13.8v.

If it was my Motorhome I would fit varta LFD range batteries in both the Habitation area and under the bonnet and then remove the Earth Lead on all. In 5 months they should lose less than 5% of power.

If you do adopt this approach, in Spring, put the Earth lead on each battery in turn about 24 hours apart so that the Habitation charger brings them back up one by one, and doesn't get the load of 3 batteries in one go as it will most likely just Pop.

 

[yorkieman]

Hi. Details of the batteries will help. Power rating etc. Do you have any sort of a solar setup for them? In the meantime, its important to store batteries properly for over winter. Keep them from freezing temperatures, preferably up off the cold floor- anywhere reasonably warm is perfect-garage etc. Are they sealed for life ones or otherwise? Are they the same as each other? If they are labelled/known leisure batteries they do not need trickle charging over time as such as they are a deep cycle sort. That is to say they are capable of powering your electrical needs over a period of time rather than providing a large surge for starting a car engine. Leisure batteries are best charged up using a normal charger. They will keep their charge well for a few months when can then be done again. The charger decides how much it needs. Post some more details-you will get plenty of advice.

I'm away from the MH at the moment so can't check on the details, but I do know they are both the same. I bought them both at Halfords earlier in the year.

Do you reckon I could get away with just plugging the van into the house mains every couple of weeks and keep them topped up that way?

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[PhilandMena]

Many plug in and leave all winter. If you have a modern on board charger you will be fine.

 

[yorkieman]

We agree with Jaws.
If they are Banner wet batteries, which have around a 10% a month discharge rate, you might need to charge more often, like every 5 weeks? Watch the fluid level as they are very thirsty.
If they are good and quality modern technology batteries like the Varta LFD range they should discharge at less than 1% a month so shouldn't actually need much of a charge for about 6 months.

The above assumes the batteries are perfect and not already tiring?.

Most Trickle chargers will degrade a battery if used for more than a few weeks. Unless it is one of the new Victron Energy chargers that have an ultra low 12.9v/13.0v trickle/maintenance charge rather than the usual 13.8v.

If it was my Motorhome I would fit varta LFD range batteries in both the Habitation area and under the bonnet and then remove the Earth Lead on all. In 5 months they should lose less than 5% of power.

If you do adopt this approach, in Spring, put the Earth lead on each battery in turn about 24 hours apart so that the Habitation charger brings them back up one by one, and doesn't get the load of 3 batteries in one go as it will most likely just Pop.

Wow. I only got these from Halfords earlier in the year, but they seem to lose their charge really quick if I just leave them in the MH. If I don't use it for a couple of weeks they'll be dead :-(

I don't think I can remove the earth lead, as I have a tracker and it would impact on that, wouldn't it?

 

[PhilandMena]

Ha

Wow. I only got these from Halfords earlier in the year, but they seem to lose their charge really quick if I just leave them in the MH. If I don't use it for a couple of weeks they'll be dead :-(

I don't think I can remove the earth lead, as I have a tracker and it would impact on that, wouldn't it?[/QUO
Halfords ? Are you sure they are leisure batteries ?
You may want to have a read of this.
http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

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[Jaws]

Wow. I only got these from Halfords earlier in the year, but they seem to lose their charge really quick if I just leave them in the MH. If I don't use it for a couple of weeks they'll be dead :-(

I don't think I can remove the earth lead, as I have a tracker and it would impact on that, wouldn't it?

Sounds more like you have a drain than duff batteries !

 

[sewinlynne2]

I'm away from the MH at the moment so can't check on the details, but I do know they are both the same. I bought them both at Halfords earlier in the year.

Do you reckon I could get away with just plugging the van into the house mains every couple of weeks and keep them topped up that way?

If you've still got your receipts, the very first thing I would do would be to take them out of the MH and straight back to Halfords for a check-should still be under guarantee-if they turn out to be duff get better ones(you haven't told us what their amp hr rating is yet). Buy the best quality you can afford is my recommendation. Your tracker is a separate system with its own battery-shouldn't be affected by earth lead removal but we're not talking the vehicle battery as well here are we? If your mh batteries turn out to be fine then there will be some problem or other somewhere in your system so, it would then be most helpful to know after that what your mh is-could be the charger not working as it should for one thing(but that comes later possibly.) Also, as mentioned, there could be something in your mh draining the batteries-shouldn't be any problem leaving it on semi permanent hook at home, when everything is working well.

 

[aandncaravan]

If you have a Tracker which you want to keep operational then charging every few weeks will work fine. The time between charges will depend on the Tracker and any other drain, like Frost Protection valve, you might find it has to be every 2 weeks?

Just monitor the battery voltages and keep them up above above 80%. Use the chart below to work out what it is for your batteries, probably the 'Conventional' section so about 12.5v?

If you had modern technology batteries or Gel batteries then use the 'Sealed/VRLA' section on the chart below as these have a higher resting voltage.

Whatever you do don't leave them on long term EHU otherwise battery damage can result. Things have changed a lot since the days of Caravan style power Supplies. See our website page on why not to connect to EHU in storage : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ehu-full-time-yes-or-no.php

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[two]

I assume you are talking about a separate leisure/habitation battery and an engine/starter battery? Try to get a multi-stage (or ‘smart’) charger. Charge one up and then the other, once a month. Keep them somewhere warm (under the stairs) if you can. Don’t leave any battery in a discharged state, that’s the way they die.

 

[aandncaravan]

Sulphation occurs when a battery is left in a discharged state for an extended period and this does degrade the battery. But to be significant damage the battery needs to be heavily discharged for some time.
A partial discharge for a short period has little detrimental effect.

But there is growing evidence that the primary cause of battery failure is internal corrosion. See the chart below where in one industry, 86% of batteries failed from this.

One of the Primary causes of Corrosion, according to Victron Energy, is batteries left on a Float/maintenance charge higher than 13.0v long term. Most modern motorhome chargers Float at 13.8v, way above Victron Energy, and most Battery manufacturers, recommendations.

Note on the chart that Gel/AGM batteries (you know the ones that don't lose fluid?) had a higher failure rate from drying out than 'wet' batteries. A 33% failure rate.

 

[autorouter]

they seem to lose their charge really quick if I just leave them in the MH. If I don't use it for a couple of weeks they'll be dead :-(

If they don't lose charge so quick when you take them out of the MH, that points to something in the MH draining them.

A quick fag-packet calculation shows that a loss of 100Ah in two weeks will need a steady drain current of 600 milliamps (0.6 amps). This should be measurable with even a cheap clamp-type amp meter.

I'm not convinced that cold temperatures have a detrimental effect on batteries, especially if you're just storing them, not using them. If anything, the evidence shows that keeping batteries cold in hot weather has much more benefit, but who ever does that? The capacity decreases when cold, sure, but it comes back up when the temperature rises again.

You may have a battery isolator switch, which will disconnect the batteries from the MH electrics completely. If not there will be a fuse, maybe 50 amps or so, right next to the battery. Pull out the fuse to isolate the battery.

On some MHs there is also a small fuse (maybe 2 amps) next to the big one. It's for a thin wire going directly to the voltmeter. You could pull that one out as well, but if it's not faulty the current will be practically zero.

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[aandncaravan]

But he does say he has something constantly drawing power, the Tracker.
These can run low a Starter battery to about 12.4v in a couple of weeks, obviously any lower will most likely be too low to start the engine and be causing long term battery degradation.
The usual way of overcoming this drain on the Starter battery is to steal power from the habitation battery.

So while the thread started off with the removal of the Habitation batteries 'to the shed' for charging, it suddenly changed part way through when the Tracker popped into the equation. It is probably (maybe without Yorkieman being aware?) using the Habitation batteries as 'backup'. Hence our suggestion to leave batteries in place and charge off the mains.

The old practise of wiring the Tracker directly from habitation battery, which may be the case here, has to be done with care, as Power/charger Units like the Sargent EC328 and EC328, can charge the habitation battery at almost 18volts.
In addition many modern power control/charger units are designed to handle all the power going in and out of the battery, so will give false readings or even shut down if power is taken direct from the battery they are not aware of.

Hence many Tracker installations moving back to using the Starter batteries as primary power and then 'stealing' habitation battery energy when required.



It doesn't take much power draw, even a Frost protection Valve, to run a battery down by more than 15% over a few weeks, therefore into the damage zone if left like that.

The ideal through any 'none use' period is to keep the battery as fully charged as possible versus a compromise of putting on EHU every few days, which might be impractical.
About every 2 - 8 weeks is ok depending on the batteries, drain, etc. Obviously a High Antimony content Wet battery (the construction favoured by the old fashioned Deep discharge manufacturers) will discharge relatively quickly.
Just monitor battery discharge, then Hook-Up before it gets below about 10 - 15% discharged. You will soon get to know how often.
The time period will be totally unique to each van, just one person leaving the Alarm on and another turning it off will be a big variation on identical Motorhomes : One having Banner high discharge batteries and another low discharge Vartas will also have a marked effect. So you can't copy what someone else does, each Motorhome charging 'interval' will be unique.

If you can't use EHU in storage, then as we said at the start a modern quality battery (and I don't mean a Lion that cost £55, or a Halfords battery) will stay charged for months so just remove the Earth leads on ALL batteries.


I obviously don't know how Yorkiemans Tracker, and don't forget there is likely to also be an Alarm, is wired so all the above is conjecture, but our 'Winter storage' solution in his case should cover all bases?

.

 

[Chris51]

I have 2x110 sealed liesure batteries and 80a solar panel. VB is 70a solar charger is PWM dual battery and I give MH a run every month. MH is well insulated (spray foam etc ) so am hoping it will main tain its own charge over winter ?