Towing weight of a Tag axle

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Brightspark, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. Brightspark

    Brightspark Funster

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    Hi All, we are considering changing our rv to a European/English tag axle. So far 2 makes in mind, Autotrail (different tag axle models) & the Swift Kontiki. Both i believe are built on the same alko chassis. The autotrail states a towing weight of 1000kg & the Swift states 1500kg but both state a maximum train weight of 6000kg. So my question is; can the towing weight of the Autotrail be increased by reducing the payload but still keeping under the max train weight or is the towing weight of the vehicle governed by the towbar manufaturer? Any advice/experience would be welcomed:Smile:
     
  2. flatpackchicken

    flatpackchicken Funster Life Member

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    Hi, i stand to be corrected here, but having an alko chassis, these are not very strong, so thats why your gtw is only 6t, and the motorhome may have a gvw of about 4.5t leaving max tow weight of 1.5t, and you will not be able to tow any more than what the gtw is as this is what the manufacturer states is the max safe weight for the vehicle. You would be better to get a 2 axle motorhome with a normal iron chassis, and this vehicle will probably have a 3,5t gvw and 3.5t towing weight as well totaling 7t. Regards Garry Flatpackchicken
     
  3. Brightspark

    Brightspark Funster

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    Hi Garry, i am not wishing to increase the train weight i understand its there for a reason. I am asking advice concerning the decrease of the payload to allow the increase of the towing weight but keeping within the train weight of 6000kg
     
  4. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi as garry says even a new transit as a train of 6.500kg but the iveco daily,s can have a gvw of 3.500kg but have a train of 8.700kg even at that full train weight can be driven on a b+e licence . could be you look around and visit some dealers to see what they can do for you.
    maybe you think again on your base vehicle age and licence conditions to suit.
     
  5. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    I would say if the maker, in this case Alko, has stated a max towing limit then that should be adhered to.

    the train weight is just that.....a combined max weight and can be made from a reduced payload and increased tow weight....but the manufacturers max towing limit takes priority.

    my 3850kg Kontiki had a trailer limit of 2000kg...5850kg train..until i contacted swift for a cert of conformity to get the gross weight corrected by DVLA...it had been registered as 3500kg :Doh:

    the cert came from Alko along with a new Vin plate reducing the train weight to 5500kg which was standard train for a 3500kg van...350kg off to account for the extra 350kg gross weight.
    Alko had overlooked the reduction when the chassis was fitted.
     
  6. aba

    aba

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    i think you will find its actually a C1+E and is normally restricted at 8250kg
    as anything with a gvw over 3500kg needs C1 and over 7500kg requires C
     
  7. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Sorry Andy, but Alan is correct.

    a standard 'B+E' licence (car up to 3500kg) doesnt have an upper towing limit...only the tow vehicles train limit, so a 6ton truck with a train of 12ton can be downplated to 3500kg but the train remains at 12ton...giving you a trailer weight of 8500kg....and the ability to pull it as nothing has changed but the vehicles gross weight on paper only.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  8. aba

    aba

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    not going to argue over this

    quote from dvla

    B+E Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B and the MAM of the trailer or semi-trailer does not exceed 3500kg

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DG_201206
     
  9. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    the page headline says it all.....comes into force in 2013.

    existing drivers are not affected.

    New rules for vehicles you can drive and minimum ages.
     
  10. Brightspark

    Brightspark Funster

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    Thanks for all your replies but i think the answers have gone off on a tangent!! i'm not asking about licence requirements, that is not an issue. My thought process is that both makes of tag axles (Autotrail & Swift) are built on the same 'alko' chassis. The majority of the tag axle models from Autotrail are very similar GVW to the Swift Kontiki so why would one manufacturer state a 1000kg towing weight & the other 1500kg & can the towing weight be increased by reducing the payload?
     
  11. aba

    aba

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  12. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    we are taking about driving tests taken pre 1997, which most members did.

    open the attachment and look at category B.
    then look at category E.

    you'll see there is no limit on trailer weight given, only they are pulling trailers and DVLA are aware of this and prepared to do nothing about it.
    2013 sees changes to new drivers only which will include a new weight limit.

    DVLA is a veritable sweetshop of omissions and mistakes and as previously said...NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE
     

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  13. flatpackchicken

    flatpackchicken Funster Life Member

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    as long as you do not exceed the gtw and the gvw you can carry what you like so yes is the answer to your question 2 and 1 may have extra heavy duty chassis than the other giving extra towing weight, Regards Garry Flatpackchicken
     
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  14. Brightspark

    Brightspark Funster

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    I don't know why i bothered asking the initial question
     
  15. aba

    aba

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    i notice you missed the starred bit off the bottom

    *If you passed your category B (car) test before 1 January 1997 you would also have had the entitlement to drive vehicles between 3,500 and 7,500 kg (now known as C1 and C1E vehicles).
    However you can only drive such a vehicle and tow a trailer where the total weight of both is no more than 8,250 kg.
    You can also drive minibuses with up to 16 passenger seats (now known as D1 and D1E vehicles) as long as you are not driving for hire or reward.
     
  16. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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  17. Brightspark

    Brightspark Funster

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    Thanks for your reply Garry much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  18. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    that's correct Andy, but it applies to C1+E.......cat B is a different category (standard car up to 3500kg) and no upper trailer limit is stated or exists.
    another DVLA oversight
     
  19. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Aint that always the case :Rofl1:
     
  20. old-mo

    old-mo Funster Extra Special Life Member

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    If I were you Brightspark.... I would stick with what you have...

    Providing your license is up to it, you have a vehicle that will outlast a Euro-Van, and tow almost anything within reason..

    Good luck what ever route you go down.. :thumb:
     
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