Towing a trail or

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Mart grump, May 5, 2014.

  1. Mart grump

    Mart grump Funster

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    Thinking of buying a fiat 500 and towing it on a trailor we have a swift kontiki 669 tag axle 2.2 litre engine any advice on towing is the engine man enough and where's the best place to get the trailor :thumb:
     
  2. PaulyP

    PaulyP Funster

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    You need to know your gross vehicle weight and your gross train weight, take one away from the other and then you will know your towing weight.

    ie. Mine is 3500kgs and 5500kgs therefore 2000kgs difference.
     
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  3. Trikeman

    Trikeman Read Only Funster

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    Good advice off Paul - a lot of the tags have a very low tow capacity.

    Trikeman. :Wink:
     
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  4. PaulyP

    PaulyP Funster

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    Thats why i changed mine, tag axle hymer had only 750kgs difference.
    The first thing i wanted to know with the pilote was the weights.
     
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  5. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Paul is bang on, the other thing to take into account is your licence, if you passed your car test before Jan 97 then you are fine as you will have C1+E giving a max train weight of 8250kg.

    All the best Rick
     
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  6. steevie

    steevie Funster

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    Commonly known as a grandad licence, but you don't have to be one:BigGrin:
    A single axle would probably be ok for so small a car, and there are a couple of firms make one mainly designed for the smart car, and they sort of fold up to store in the garage. I have a link somewhere but may have to come back with it.

    Can't find the folding one but here is one firm, or just google trailer for smart car or minicar. http://www.armitagetrailers.com/Cartransportertrailers.htm
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  7. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    or more correctly 'Grandfather rights' but amounts to the same thing.

    pre jan 1997 = C1+E = 8250kg (Grandfather rights)
    post jan 1997 = B (with trailer up to a combined mass of 3500kg) = 3500kg
     
  8. Mattyjwr

    Mattyjwr Funster Life Member

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    How long has 36 years of age been old enough to put people into the "grandad" category? I know that there are 28 year old grandparents but having a grandad category that includes 36 yr olds just makes me feel old :cry:
     
  9. Emmenay

    Emmenay Read Only Funster

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    I tow a new shape ford Ka (see my avatar) which is the sister car to the fiat 500. The trailer I use is a williams transporter CT115 (I think). The car and trailer come to 1350kg, well within the 1800kg I am allowed with the old Kon tiki 600.
    You may just get away with it being a tag axle but I would definitely check closely.
    My engine is the 2.8jtd and I can easily forget I am towing on the motorways.
     
  10. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Oi I was a grandpa at 34 and a great grandpa at 59 and more great grandchildren imminent :Rofl1: :Rofl1: and at 62 I am still a youngster :Rofl1: :Rofl1: John mentioned B+E licences be careful it has changed twice since post 97 but if you stick with johns post of 3500kg train weight you will not fall foul of any laws as that is the latest incarnation as of Jan 12 or 13 can't remember which :Blush: should do its my job after all :RollEyes:

    All the best Rick
     
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  11. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Remember the law looks at the plated weights of the tow vehicle and trailer not the actual weight, unless of course these are exceeded :thumb:

    All the best Rick
     
  12. Emmenay

    Emmenay Read Only Funster

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    Quite right, I shouold/could have been a bit clearer, (from memory) the trailer weighs in at approx 350kg and can carry about 1050kg, plated. The Ka weighs about 950kg/1000kg.
    The kon tiki 600 has a max train weight of about 5200kg and its max laden weight is 3400kg according to the book, so giving me enough to be within the permissible. I think i've got it right else i'm in deep doo doo :thumb:
     
  13. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    I was going to mention the plated weight of the trailer but it looks like Rick beat me to it. not surprising as its part of his profession. where else can you get such knowledgeable answers to a technical question freely offered?

    as for towing any trailer behind a tag axle motorhome, you have to be very careful to fit in with the regulations. the government agency formerly known as VOSA are cracking down on leisure use vehicles and are particularly interested in heavy trailers. tag axles have a particularly low train weight compared to the weight of the vehicle restricting the weight of any trailer and load, often below that needed to tow a car. the authorities know this so will spot and target such vehicles towing cars as a priority

    if you buy a trailer capable of carrying 2000kg, then you must use this weight+ the weight of the trailer in your calculations. whatever you do you must never exceed the maximum permissible train weight of your vehicle shown on the vehicle plate

    get it wrong and not only is there a substantial fine for being over weights, you will not be allowed to continue on your journey. this may mean leaving your trailer behind to collect later with a suitable vehicle and having another driver bring the car. its a right royal pain in the backside to sort such things. I know of a few people that have had to phone a friend to come collect some of their load and trailers, including in 2 cases horses transferred to another horse box after being stopped and weighed. dont think that a breakdown organisation such as the aa or rac will help either as you were breaking the law so they have an opt out in their terms and conditions
     
  14. aba

    aba

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    My tag axle can according to the plates tow 1000kg which isn't enough to tow an early smart on a trailer.

    Be sure you look at the weight plates fitted by the converter as they will be the correct ones.
     
  15. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    are you certain that such a big van only has a maximum laden weight of 3400kg and that isnt the kerbside weight unladen?

    basically you are towing 1400kg theoretically although actual weight is below this. so provided your van max permissible laden weight is under 3800kg you should be ok. personally I would be concerned that given your figures you are near the maximum load for the trailer. so you shouldnt put any load in the car
     
  16. Jaws

    Jaws Funster Life Member

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    Although I was not warned by the dealer I bought from even though I asked him to fit a tow bar, I subsequently found out from a good friend who actually runs a motorhome delership in Southampton that it has a max towing capacity of 1 tonne.. Not a problem for me as my rig weighs ( a very close ) 990 kilos.. But that is with a smarty and a pheonix trailer
     
  17. Emmenay

    Emmenay Read Only Funster

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    Yes pretty certain on that one, 3400kg. According to the figures, with the fuel tank at 90% and water 90% and average driver of 75kg, it comes in at about 3135kg unladen. Thats not allowing for extras like domes and solar panels etc.
    As for the trailer, yes it is near the mark, so the car is always empty, apart from maybe some clothes etc, nearly always an empty fuel tank, and the trailer spare wheel in the van. :thumb:
     
  18. Electraglide

    Electraglide Funster

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    Thank you all for the information on this post and one running a couple off days ago.
    As the OP, we are looking at buying a Kontiki 669, the Swift website gives the following details.
    Maximum technical permissable weight 5000kgs
    Gross train weight 6000kgs
    Maximum recommended trailer weight 1600kgs
    Bike on a trailer weighs 310 kgs for trailer 495kgs for bike total 805kgs.
    The trailer will be new, nomally plated at 1500kgs, looks like I will have to request it is plated at 1000kgs to keep VOSA at bay if I am understanding this correctly.
     
  19. martin2603

    martin2603 Funster

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    train weights

    KKontiki 669 2008 max towing weight 1600kg

    Brian James Smart trailer 300k ( I have one) Fiat 500 800kg? Hyundai i10 (I use 980kg) Still under 6000kg max with ample payload. in the MH.

    Or use an A frame towing attachment if in the UK Your Fiat and A frame will be well under 1000kg. Even more payload in the MH

    Martin:thumb:
     
  20. sb8263

    sb8263 Funster

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    just got a brian james trailer for our smart car,,,cost £1995.00 from sheffield,,,,,tow bar going on our autotrail tomorrow....:thumb:
     
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