To uprate or not? (1 Viewer)

[stevec]

We have a Burstner with a MAM of 3500kg. The chassis has clearly been downrated by Burstner as the Fiat plate in the engine bay says 3650. Last weighbridge visit I did last year I was 60kg under (3440kg). I've done a few changes since then (major one being replacing single 13kg Calor with single 11kg Alugas). So I recon I'm getting fairly close to the max but don't see us adding much more. But there is always that bit of uncertainty about going over! I'm pondering getting the 'van uprated to 3650 or maybe 3850 (I don't suppose there is any reason not to go to 3850). Have others that have up rated found it worthwhile to up rate given the restrictions that it imposes (speed limits, access restrictions, tolls, age - but I have 7 years until I'm 70!). I haven't done a weighing this year but don't expect much different to last. I shall be visiting the weighbridge next time we are out.

 

[Just smiffy]

Tax is cheaper and will save you money on the payment to uprate and then there's no worries.... have not noticed difference when traveling but then I don't do tolls..?

As far as I'm concerned it's a no brainer, then if you have problems when 70ys down rate again..

 

[Shrimp]

Tax is cheaper and will save you money on the payment to uprate and then there's no worries.... have not noticed difference when traveling but then I don't do tolls..?

As far as I'm concerned it's a no brainer, then if you have problems when 70ys down rate again..

Ditto.
Did our Hymer while back, cheaper tax!

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[Xabia]

Did mine years ago, no difference on the tolls (they don't weigh you) and cheaper tax, no brainer.

 

[Cat53]

Just done ours. Worth the peace of mind for us. Cheaper tax. Tend to stick at 59/55 anyway and how can they tell on tolls etc?

 

[PeteH]

I am 74 Next. Did mine last Year (3850kg) I have 3 years on the licence. IF it came to it I could downrate to 3500, and put the likes af SWMBO` Mobility Scooter etc in a small trailer, or a "Toad".

BIGGEST expense was the £90 for the medical. (should be free!!).

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[Reallyretired]

Alugas is lighter than calor so no need to update on that score. Worth doing for other reasons though.

 

[magicsurfbus]

The 3500 Kgs rated MH we bought last month is going to be uprated to 3850 Kgs.

We just about managed with the stated 395 Kgs payload on our recent trip to France (verified by a weighbridge trip) but that was only two of us, we made some compromises, and the MH is four berth.

The advantages as I see it are:

Lower vehicle tax.
No worries about exceeding weight limits if we take two more adults with us, or decide to buy bulky items when on holiday.
French tolls won't change if we pay at the ticket machine - we'll still get through as Classe 2.
More flexibility with what we can carry - fewer compromises.
It looks like I'll probably be re-tested for driving at 70 anyway, so the C1 licence issue will become irrelevant.
If either of us ever needs a mobility scooter or other modifications they would be possible.

The disadvantages are:

Cost of conversion and up-plating - the rear suspension will need upgrading for a gross weight of 3850 Kgs
Can't get a Sanef Telepeage tag above 3.5 tonnes, and would have to use a Go-Box in Austria, although there's some talk of a Europe-wide tag system coming soon.
Strictly speaking I'd have to observe >3.5 tonne speed limits abroad, for example going downhill or no overtaking, but it's difficult to see how they're enforced when the vehicle looks the same as a 3.5 tonne MH.


As an afterthought I would add that the bulkiest item you can alter when managing MH payload is liquids. One way to keep within limits is to re-think what you do with water, grey water, loo contents, fuel, and so on, ie not driving around with everything filled to the brim.

 

[Rapido925M]

I've been thinking about this, but with only 3y left until I'm 70, I decided that:

Save £60 pa on tax = £180

Spend £250 (SVTec) or £140approx (DIY)

Pro: bring back a bit more booze (but we rarely drink all of it before the next trip)
Con: restriction on some roads etc

Achieve 70 and lose license: downplate at £???

Achieve 70 and keep license: look at Pro/Cons again.

In the end I decided that, as I'd been OK for 10y I would just stick to 3500kg.

Each to their own - Gordon

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[Xabia]

I am 74 Next. Did mine last Year (3850kg) I have 3 years on the licence. IF it came to it I could downrate to 3500, and put the likes af SWMBO` Mobility Scooter etc in a small trailer, or a "Toad".

BIGGEST expense was the £90 for the medical. (should be free!!).

I was fed up,paying my GP in the region of £115 for my medical, used http://www.driversmedicals.com/ this year. £55 and a much more thorough check over than the GP,used to do, new licence received within just over a week.

 

[stevec]

As an afterthought I would add that the bulkiest item you can alter when managing MH payload is liquids.

We do empty the fresh water tank on our last day so we can load up with wine before catching the shuttle. But I don't suppose there's many of us who pay 2Euro for water will only put in half a tank! Not an issue in the UK though.

I've contacted J R Consultancy and they now quote £150 for this sort of up rate. Looking at the above comments (thanks everyone) it looks like I'll go ahead with it.

 

[PeteH]

I was fed up,paying my GP in the region of £115 for my medical, used http://www.driversmedicals.com/ this year. £55 and a much more thorough check over than the GP,used to do, new licence received within just over a week.

Yes, I understand many do, Mine was simple, but still cost an "Arm and Leg", for something which SHOULD be free, especially considering that Many who follow US will be retiring at 70 or even later!. IMV for every year they push the retirement age up the AGE(ist) related requirement should be pushed up as well. Which would mean that by now it should be at least 75.

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[Lenny HB]

Our last van we were always running 50-100kg over with full tanks & we always run with full tanks so for piece of mind we uprated.
3 years & one month until 70, new van (will be on the road as soon as we get docs. from DVLA) is 4500kg. Didn't want to be struggling with payload, fingers crossed when we reach 70 as I reckon the van will not be practical at 3500kg.

 

[Kingham]

The 3500 Kgs rated MH we bought last month is going to be uprated to 3850 Kgs............

.............Strictly speaking I'd have to observe >3.5 tonne speed limits abroad, for example going downhill or no overtaking, but it's difficult to see how they're enforced when the vehicle looks the same as a 3.5 tonne MH.

I've yet to come across those speed and overtaking restrictions in Europe that apply to motorhomes. All the ones I have seen are under signs of good vehicles, which makes the restrictions applicable only to goods vehicles.

It's the same with villages that have 3.5t weight restrictions for goods vehicles, very few have only the restriction signs in place, which would make the restrictions apply to all classes of vehicle, including our motorhomes.

 

[Lenny HB]

I've yet to come across those speed and overtaking restrictions in Europe that apply to motorhomes. All the ones I have seen are under signs of good vehicles, which makes the restrictions applicable only to goods vehicles.

It's the same with villages that have 3.5t weight restrictions for goods vehicles, very few have only the restriction signs in place, which would make the restrictions apply to all classes of vehicle, including our motorhomes.

N10 in France 80kph, no overtaking for all vehicles over 3500kg, I think it's the section south of Bordeaux miles and miles of it I know I shall avoid it in future.

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[suavecarve]

I uprated for peace of mind and got my first tax refund back today so I will be in pocket in 2 years but as a 6 berth with motorbike on board it was necessary as well.
What I shouldn't recommend is taking a photo of your log book when it is under 3.5 tonne and a photo of your log book when it is over 3.5 tonne.
Just remember if you are over then youre only allowed 60mph on dual carriageways whereas under 3.5 tonne can do 70 so wo betide getting a copper stopping you for 68mph on a dual carriageway and youre 3.5 tonne. I think it is slightly better to show him the over 3.5 tonne and take the speeding fine !

 

[magicsurfbus]

N10 in France 80kph, no overtaking for all vehicles over 3500kg, I think it's the section south of Bordeaux miles and miles of it I know I shall avoid it in future.

We drove up that stretch a couple of weeks ago between Biarritz and Bordeaux - much of it has been upgraded to three lanes and the restriction no longer applies. I was watching out for it and was pleasantly surprised to see it gone.

It does still apply on other stretches of autoroute though, and there's not always a truck sign.

 

[Lenny HB]

We drove up that stretch a couple of weeks ago between Biarritz and Bordeaux - much of it has been upgraded to three lanes and the restriction no longer applies. I was watching out for it and was pleasantly surprised to see it gone.

It does still apply on other stretches of autoroute though, and there's not always a truck sign.

That's good news I was going to avoid it and use the free section of the A20.

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[Lenny HB]

I uprated for peace of mind and got my first tax refund back today so I will be in pocket in 2 years but as a 6 berth with motorbike on board it was necessary as well.
What I shouldn't recommend is taking a photo of your log book when it is under 3.5 tonne and a photo of your log book when it is over 3.5 tonne.
Just remember if you are over then youre only allowed 60mph on dual carriageways whereas under 3.5 tonne can do 70 so wo betide getting a copper stopping you for 68mph on a dual carriageway and youre 3.5 tonne. I think it is slightly better to show him the over 3.5 tonne and take the speeding fine !

3500kg has nothing to do with UK speed limits the limits are set by unladed weight, you are restricted to the lower limits if your unladen weight is over 3050kg.

 

[suavecarve]

Taken from the government site https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits @Lenny HB

National speed limits
Type of vehicle Built-up areas mph(km/h) Single carriageways mph (km/h) Dual carriageways mph (km/h) Motorways mph(km/h)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles when towing caravans or trailers 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 60 (96)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)

 

[suavecarve]

Taken from the government site https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits @Lenny HB

National speed limits
Type of vehicle Built-up areas mph(km/h) Single carriageways mph (km/h) Dual carriageways mph (km/h) Motorways mph(km/h)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles when towing caravans or trailers 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 60 (96)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)

Sorry should have put @Lenny HB in the previous post.

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[suavecarve]

I should also have put in "Youre right"

 

[Zigisla]

And of course remember if you want to apply for the Crit Air Certificate for use in France and you fill in the form correctly, you will only get a cat 3 and not and all pass Cat 2

 

[Steve N Tracy]

I forgot I was going to uprate mine and applied for the Crit-Air before the upgrade to 3850Kgs

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[Duck Truck]

Sorry!!!!!

I thought you said
urinate

 

[Duck Truck]

must go to specsavers

 

[RogerThat]

Interesting thread!

How does one decide on 3650 or 3850, or any other number for that matter?

Is there a reason you'd not go higher?

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[Mickey1]

I am 74 Next. Did mine last Year (3850kg) I have 3 years on the licence. IF it came to it I could downrate to 3500, and put the likes af SWMBO` Mobility Scooter etc in a small trailer, or a "Toad".

BIGGEST expense was the £90 for the medical. (should be free!!).

Here you go @PeteH
Broken Link Removed

Mickey.

 

[magicsurfbus]

Interesting thread!

How does one decide on 3650 or 3850, or any other number for that matter?

Is there a reason you'd not go higher?

Your MH's suspension may already be capable of carrying a heavier load than its current VED rating.

Ours (Ducato) will carry 3850 Kgs maximum but is rated at 3500 Kgs (PLG) on the V5 to get round the C1 licence requirement for all drivers passing their test since 1997.

Consequently I'm up-plating ours to 3850 Kgs (PHG), although I've been told it'll need air assisted rear suspension fitted to be up-plated to that figure. 3650 Kgs is as high as it could go without the air assist, but that's no good to me as I'd be looking to carry two additional adults plus their clobber, and an extra 150 Kgs isn't enough for that.

 

[RogerThat]

Thanks for the info, but how do you know what it can go up to?

Mine is 3500 currently and it has air assist on the rear, but how do I know what the max I could upgrade to would be?

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