To fit or not to fit b2b - so confused (1 Viewer)

Mar 21, 2015
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3ltr euro5 fiat - EBL101 electrobloc - 2x 95 a/h agm batteries.
I have read several good reports and recommendations on FUN re the Sterling b2b charger and am considering fitting one ( poss. BB1230)
A&N caravan svs back in 2014 ish suggested Not fitting unless one understands the electrobloc and its implications, yet it seems a relatively simple, 3 suitability fused , wire connections.
I have also had it suggested that if b2b is fitted I should remove and make safe the starter battery connection wire fron the electrobloc.

Has anyone had fitted a similar set-up and do any Techno Wizards have any views or words of wisdom please.

Any guidance would be very much appreciated.
 

Camping Gaza

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re the Sterling b2b charger and am considering fitting one


Sounds like if you did not disconnect your starter battery connection you would get a kind of charging loop going on... cab battery full, charges leisure battery, leisure battery passes voltage via electroblock back to starter battery and so on basically turning your starter battery and leisure battery into one big battery bank.

So when you use current from your leisure batteries you are also draining your starter battery. (not good)

That's how I see it (probably wrong!!)

I have a b2b that charges from my cab battery, I also have solar that charges my hab battery bank. So i get charge to hab batteries when moving (b2b) and from solar. also charge (Solar) gets to hab batteries when camping

When parked up for any long period I can also divert solar to my cab battery disconnecting it from hab battery via a two pole switch... all good. guess what? when cab battery reaches float voltage from solar the b2b kicks in and takes the excess to the hab battery bank. So cab battery stays floating, Hab batteries get charged and stay floating.

Was going to buy a battery master, but I thought, If I had one of those battery masters that take your excess hab battery charge to your cab battery in circuit, I think a similar thing would happen as I said above... I think your electroblock has a battery master built in (possibly) so that's why they are suggesting you disconnect your connection.

I could be talking out of my hat here, but I got nothing else to do today!!! (So how confused are you now????? )
 
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Antique
Mar 21, 2015
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Hi Gaza and thanks

Re disconnect starter batt from electrobloc.
Yes, something like your charging loop thought except It was suggested leaving it connected may override the benefit of a b2b.

Both systems are working ok ( no drain on starter from leisure ).
Problem is when touring, driving 3-5 hrs with fridge on 12v, there is less power in leisure b than when I started. I was hoping a b2b would solve it.

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cliffanger

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We had one fitted at Vanbitz - I have no idea about the technical side of things, but it worked for us when we had a week away in December, didn't have an EHU once, watched loads of telly and we didn't have any problems. I'm in no way technical, but I don't think ours is connected to the Elektrobloc.
 
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Problem is when touring, driving 3-5 hrs with fridge on 12v, there is less power in leisure b than when I started.
That's strange as our fridge runs from the vehicle charging system when the engine is running and the hab circuit is cut out by the change over relay. We don't have built in solar so rely on the hab battery being charged whist driving. I wouldn't have thought that fitting an Electroblock would necessitate changing the original system.
Anyone know differently?
 

Camping Gaza

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Problem is when touring, driving 3-5 hrs with fridge on 12v, there is less power in leisure b than when I started. I was hoping a b2b would solve it.

It should do, My one is not a sterling but made by ring automotive and about half the price and also has a built in mppt solar controller. When running it gives me up to a 30 amp charge. and in spanish sun I was getting about 7 amps from the solar array on the roof. I have just spent 3 months touring France Spain and Portugal with no EHU at all. All of it running my fridge from battery and gas and all electrical power from my battery bank.

I also have a 2000 watt inverter i use to power the microwave so that gave my batteries a bashing, but soon charged by the B2b

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SandraL

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Schaudt have now introduced a b2b charger. But it is, i believe, only rated at 20amps. This may be to ensure that feeding it through the electrobloc does not exceed the max current safe for the electrobloc.
If you dont feed through the electrobloc no problem but you will lose the ability to see what is happening current wise on the dt panel associated with the electrobloc. Also if you have a battery capacity readout on the dt panel it will be wrong if you have bypassed the electrobloc.
Voltage readouts will still be ok though.
 
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Hi Gaza and thanks

Problem is when touring, driving 3-5 hrs with fridge on 12v, there is less power in leisure b than when I started. I was hoping a b2b would solve it.
that should not be the case as the fridge should be fed from the cab battery /alternater when driving ,i would get that checked before looking at a b2b

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Many thanks for that SandraL.

I think I get your drift.
As it is the starter battery I have had suggested to be disconnected from the EBL then my panel wii not indicate that batteries state.
As the b2b feeds max 30amp direct to leisure batterys I assume the EBL will not be affected by excessive current ie over 20A
 

funflair

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that should not be the case as the fridge should be fed from the cab battery /alternater when driving ,i would get that checked before looking at a b2b
Some fridges are fed from the leisure just switched by D+ from the alternator, ours is.

Martin
 
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Antique
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Hi Hilldweller
Fridge is a Dometic AES.

Hi Mitzimad
Have just checked and fridge does run on 12v (but gives the L. batteries a good kicking with no engine running !)

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JeanLuc

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If you have disconnected the starter battery from the EBL, the fridge will not be able to get 12 V from it when you are driving. The fridge is supplied 12V from one of the connector blocks on the front of the EBL that is in turn, supplied from the starter battery connection on the back of the EBL.
If it were me, I would not fit a B2B unit with an EBL since it charges both habitation and starter batteries; but perhaps I have missed some of the finer points about a B2B charger.
On another point, I would not choose AGM batteries with an EBL 101 either, since it does not have a charging program that is suitable/optimised for AGM.
 

JeanLuc

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......... since it charges both habitation and starter batteries; but perhaps I have missed some of the finer points about a B2B charger.

Sorry, ignore the line above in my previous post - for a moment, I confused the B2B with a Battery Master. The rest of the post stands though. I thought long and hard about fitting a B2B some years ago but decide against it and have never really had a situation where the alternator was failing to charge the habitation batteries satisfactorily.
 

JeanLuc

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This extract from the EBL 101 manual may explain your problem of habitation batteries depletion. Presumably you have an AES fridge? I would have expected it to prioritise gas or 230V if the engine is not running. Glad I have a manual energy selection fridge as I don't have to worry about forcing it to use any particular power source - just remember to do it myself!

upload_2017-2-25_14-43-28.png

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Hi JeanLuc
Thanks for your reply.

At present I have not touched any connections or had a b2b fitted.
My annoying fridge / L. batteries drain whilst driving is a historical problem.
Thanks for your concerns re the b2b compatability with the EBL 101, I shall give Sterling a call next week and see what they've got to say.
EBL101 . . . . . With no factory setting for AGM batteries but AGM supplied from new. Yes I agree (but that's another story :) )
 
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Antique
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Forgive me for slow reply JeanLuc, I'm a v slow one finger typist !
I've just seen your previous message.
Many thanks
 

Kool Kroozer

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These kind of threads really confuse me an make me wonder if i have fitted my stuff.. Solar controller an leisure batteries correctly.. Maybe i am thinking too much into it or about something completely different to my set up

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Very interesting extract JeanLuc.
Think I'll check fuses on EBL when I get back and see if one feeds fridge from engine battery
 

funflair

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This extract from the EBL 101 manual may explain your problem of habitation batteries depletion. Presumably you have an AES fridge? I would have expected it to prioritise gas or 230V if the engine is not running. Glad I have a manual energy selection fridge as I don't have to worry about forcing it to use any particular power source - just remember to do it myself!

View attachment 149658

Those instructions are for AES/compressor fridge rather than standard absorption I think.

Martin
 

JeanLuc

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If you have an AES fridge, there should be a fuse in the position indicated in red; if you have a manual selection fridge, there should not be one.
EBL101.jpg

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JeanLuc

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Those instructions are for AES/compressor fridge rather than standard absorption I think.

Martin
Then perhaps I have misunderstood the Schaudt instructions. I had interpreted this as either for an AES fridge (as in Dometic absorption) OR for a compressor fridge. I thought the other feed was for manual absorption fridges only. In one of the Schaudt manuals I have read that the fuse must be removed if an AES fridge is not fitted otherwise there is a danger of hab. battery discharge.
Having said that, my Hymer has a manual selection absorption fridge and the fuse is populated. I guess it's time for an email to Udo Lang to get clarification!
 

JeanLuc

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Antique, see the exchange between Martin (FunFlair) and me regarding the use of that fuse. It looks as though there should be one in place anyway.

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SandraL

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Ebl101, download the manual from schaudt. The fridge 12 v supply for the element is connected direct to the ebl101 on plug 4fbl1. There is a 20amp fuse on front of electroblock "fuse only for compressor/aes fridge"
The d+ signal must be present on the fridge with engine running or the fridge wont switch to 12 volt. If d+ signal is always present fridge will always be on 12 volt and drain the leisure battery if engine not running.
All becones clear if you can see ebl 101 schematic at back of the instruction manual.

Edit, there are 2 supplies from starter batt to ebl101. First is to main terminal at rear of ebl , 2nd is on term 1 of block 5fbl2 which provides power for fridge when d+ relay in ebl operates when engine running.
 
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JeanLuc

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Edit, there are 2 supplies from starter batt to ebl101. First is to main terminal at rear of ebl , 2nd is on term 1 of block 5fbl2 which provides power for fridge when d+ relay in ebl operates when engine running.
Absolutely correct, I had forgotten about the additional 12V supply from the starter battery to the front plug on the EBL for the fridge. (y)
 

Neckender

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Hi JeanLuc
Thanks for your reply.

At present I have not touched any connections or had a b2b fitted.
My annoying fridge / L. batteries drain whilst driving is a historical problem.
Thanks for your concerns re the b2b compatability with the EBL 101, I shall give Sterling a call next week and see what they've got to say.
EBL101 . . . . . With no factory setting for AGM batteries but AGM supplied from new. Yes I agree (but that's another story :) )

Could you let us all know what Sterling says, as My next van will have the electroblock 101 and I will want to transfer my 20amp B to B from my present motorhome.
Cheers,

John.

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funflair

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Antique, see the exchange between Martin (FunFlair) and me regarding the use of that fuse. It looks as though there should be one in place anyway.
To be fair Philip I may well be reading it wrong,

http://www.vodeg.nl/_imagesCMS/Schaudt_EBL_101C_BA_EN.pdf

Page 16 shows the relay switching the fridge to starter battery on D+ signal and in the absence of D+ it powers the fridge through the 20 amp fuse, so if you were to force the fridge to use 12volts without D+ (manual selection) it would be via the 20amp fuse which I can't follow where it is fed from but guessing habitation, I would also assume that the AES fridge will still select the power source in the normal priority 240 then gas so even with that 20 amp fuse in place the correct AES procedure will apply.

There again I could be completely wrong.

Martin
 

SandraL

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To be fair Philip I may well be reading it wrong,

http://www.vodeg.nl/_imagesCMS/Schaudt_EBL_101C_BA_EN.pdf

Page 16 shows the relay switching the fridge to starter battery on D+ signal and in the absence of D+ it powers the fridge through the 20 amp fuse, so if you were to force the fridge to use 12volts without D+ (manual selection) it would be via the 20amp fuse which I can't follow where it is fed from but guessing habitation, I would also assume that the AES fridge will still select the power source in the normal priority 240 then gas so even with that 20 amp fuse in place the correct AES procedure will apply.

There again I could be completely wrong.

Martin


Just to have my 5 eggs

Yes the 20amp fuse is connected to the hab battery. I suggest that if you have a S+ terminal on your fridge for solar then power would be supplied via that 20amp fuse from leisure batt. Some solar regulators have the S+ output.
Agree that if aes fridge is working properly it will only switch to 12 volt if either D+ or S+ is present at fridge. Otherwise 240 then gas.

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