Thinking of Buying Sundance 630G 2007-any advice

Discussion in 'The Beginner' started by themountaintiger, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. themountaintiger

    themountaintiger Read Only Funster

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    hi all

    Ive got £20k with which to purchase my first motorhome. Ive seen one that I would want to buy which is a Fiat Ducato swift sundance 630g jan 2007 (under 20k mileage) 6 berth which is slightly over my budget at £21k, however this does seem quite a bit cheaper than the same model at other dealers. Could this be that the layout is different to a later in the year 2007 version which is 4 berth? Can anybody give me any advice on the model. Are there any specific problems I should be watching out for (not sure if this model will have the reverse judder for instance).

    As Im a newbie would you recommend that I have it inspected by the AA??

    Any help/comments/advice appreciated
     
  2. johnsandywhite

    johnsandywhite Read Only Funster

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    :RollEyes: Seems awful cheap at £21K. :Eek!:
     
  3. Minxy Girl

    Minxy Girl Funster Life Member

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    Is it this one?

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fiat-ducato-m...mpers_Caravans_Motorhomes?hash=item2558f4a2ba

    It seems excessively cheap even for a van that is just over 3 years old even with a higher than average mileage (assuming the MOT was done exactly at 3 years and has 10 months left). It is based on the older Fiat but even so I would be very wary as it looks to be a good £5,000 under what it should be ... be careful and make sure it is checked out thoroughly, both mechanically and the habitation too, as well as finding out its full history by contacting the original owners.

    Having had a look at some of the feedback for the chap too, it does make me wary, only proceed with the purchase once you have satisfied yourself that it is a genuine and honest sale and that there is no HP claim on it.

    If its not the ebay one, then please tell us where it is so we can give it an 'eyeball' for you.
     
  4. Minxy Girl

    Minxy Girl Funster Life Member

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    Forgot to say, it shouldn't have any judder problems as that's on the current Fiat offering, there were problems relating to fifth gear but by the time this one was made the problem was well sorted so shouldn't be an issue.

    I'd be interested to know what payload it has though for a big van with extras fitted - worth getting it properly checked out on a weighbridge to make sure it's got enough capacity for your needs.

    As you've got £20k burning a hole in your pocket I would certainly advise you to take your time and not jump at the first van you see, no matter how tempting it is. There are many more types of vans out there and what you now think may be exactly what you want, after a bit more research and viewings of other types of vans, it may in the end turn out not to be after all and that could be a very, very expensive mistake if you end up changing it.
     
  5. johnsandywhite

    johnsandywhite Read Only Funster

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    :Smile: If that is the one? It is the same as my 2004 Swift Suntor 630G. If it IS genuine? Then go for it. :thumb:
     
  6. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    If it is the one on ebay, it is well underpriced, may be because the guy is a second hand dealer in cheapies .......................

    Peter
     
  7. themountaintiger

    themountaintiger Read Only Funster

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    Yes thats the one


    Hi Minx, thanks for your response. yes you have the right one.. I was thinking of having it checked by AA or other similar for mechanics/habitation... not sure if there is such a thing as a cut and shut motorhome!! :cry:Im aware from comparisons that it does seem cheap. Just to say though Ive not been looking for a cheap motorhome and hope that it fits my needs, Ive narrowed down my selection over last few months and am searching for specific motorhomes so think I have the right one. If it was to be a genuine motorhome for the price then it would be less of an expensive mistake than it could be if I had to pay 25k for one..

    Thanks for info re judder info..Ive read that payload is 620kg so I think that would be ok for me (unless anyone knows if its actually lower!!)

    Im going to have a long think about it..(probably someone else will have bought it by time I make a decision). If it was a motorhome dealer i would feel more comfortable with buying it, but think If I treated as if I was buying privately then thats probably best way to think of it.

    Thanks for info Minx....Its good to get others viewpoints and opinions...
     
  8. themountaintiger

    themountaintiger Read Only Funster

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    630G or 630L That is the Question

    Hi, well that has certainly made me feel better that someone else thinks the motorhome is ok. This one seems to me to be the best layout for a couple of mountainbikes, inflatable canoe, awning?? in garage, although i love the concept of the rear lounge...The 2 questions im facing are, - if the bikes can be carried at the back of the motorhome and inflatable canoe in a top box without me worrying about them being stolen.....Also more lounging space in 630L if Grandson asleep in overhead cab..... Hmmm 630G or 630L that is the question!!!!!! (apologies to Hamlet, Shakespeare):wub:
     
  9. Ambilkate

    Ambilkate Funster Life Member

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    If it is the one on ebay its total weight states 3500kg be very carefull if thinking of fitting top box and bike racks ect. The boot allows you to put in 150kg, but you have to think about luggage, people extras eg chairs table bbq all that weight on back axle will put you over weight.
     
  10. Minxy Girl

    Minxy Girl Funster Life Member

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    The only way to be absolutely sure what the available payload is, is to get it weighed on a weighbridge and then you can calculate how much allowance you will need to allow for your family, chattels, bikes, canoe, food, water, fuel, gas, pets (if any) etc, etc. Its surprising how it can all add up. Our 2 dogs alone add nearly 30kg ... and that's before they 'sneak' all their toys and food in! The more weight you put at the very rear of the motohrome, ie externally on back wall of the garage, or towards the back of the inside of the garage will actually add more weight than the items actual weight, to the back axle, and take it from the front axle due to the leverage effect, although the overall payload will not be affected.

    As for your inflatable canoe - its surprising just how heavy they can be when you're trying to lift them up above chest height, and getting it onto the roof could be fun, not something I'd like to do and you'll probably end up not using it because of the aggro involved. Think of the practicalities of each layout and as I said earlier, there are plenty of motorhomes out there, don't be persuaded just because it's a cheap van. If you decide that this isn't for you, there are plenty more to choose from and, as you don't have a van to PX you are in a very strong position.

    One other reason that I've thought of for it being cheaper than normal - the dealer may need to inject some cash flow into his business and having a fairly expensive and large motorhome on his books ties up not only space but cash, so that could account for the bargain price as it's not exactly the 'best' time for people to buy them, especially with this crappy weather we're having.

    As a comparison, we've just bought some second hand 125 scooters - one came from a bike shop in London and we got it for £800, in a couple of months time it'll fetch the best part of £1,100 if we decide it's not for us and sell it. The shop owner just needed to inject some cash into his business, but as this is not the best time of year for sales and business had been slow, he decided to let it go at a good price. Very happy with our 'bargain' but we did our homework first to ensure there was nothing to worry about.
     
  11. Ambilkate

    Ambilkate Funster Life Member

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    Just noticed on the picture on ebay that there is a tow bar fitted, you have to take into account the weight of the tow bar also as extra weight.

    The 630g is a lovely van and it suits our needs, we do miss a lounge area especialy in the winter, but the sitting area can be made into the bed and we use this as a large sofa on the cold evenings.
     
  12. themountaintiger

    themountaintiger Read Only Funster

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    Bikes and Guinness

    Hi Ambil Kate

    just to explain I meant that I would only add bike racks, top box if buying a 630L with rear lounge as opposed to 630G with garage. Its good point though that I would need to check weights of the items, ive just been presuming that a couple of mountain bikes and inflatable canoe would be ok in the Garage. (1 hour later....) Right ive checked now, the canoe is 15kg and the bikes approx 20kg each so probably 60kg with paddles/bouyancy aids etc. Mind you 48 cans of guinness might weigh a bit LOL :BigGrin:. Id better check what I can carry with the rear lounge model to compare!!
     
  13. themountaintiger

    themountaintiger Read Only Funster

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    thanks for help

    Thanks for this, its good info..ive read about using weighbridges but being a newbie its a bit , well all too new for me...Right now my main issue is the purchase of the motorhome itself, albeit I am aware of the payload issue. I did read it was about 620kg, I had considered a roller team 600g previously which had about 790kg payload, but not due to this payload amount. The payload on sundance 630 does seem to be in top third of motorhomes, so therefore understand i will have to manage within it.

    Yes it is heavy, and there is sometimes water weight to be added, although I do my best to drain it/dry it, there is always an increase in weight. Lifting it wouldout be easy although I imagined it would be 'possible'. As before I already chose the layout first, then the motorhome that fit the layout. Dont get me wrong the money isnt secondary but if I saw a rear kitchen layout for £10k under market value, I wouldnt bother, its not the layout i want...

    I agree, im in business myself. It could be a simple issue of that either through trade the price purchased was £18k and the dealer wants to add £3k margin? who knows!! I do have access to ltd company reports so I can check those for financials to see what they tell me...

    Just like me... research research research...Im glad ive got you guys on my side to help me!!!:Smile:

    ps..thanks for your time as well, i know how long these advice/reponses posts take..I really appreciate it...
     
  14. haganap

    haganap Funster Life Member

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    Hi Mountaintiger, just a couple of points.

    Firstly, your choice of van, My inlaws had a sundance (not the same model) and enjoyed it even with its few little niggles (it was new) that were sorted by Swift.

    So your payload. I doubt for an adventurer like you it will be enough, but with a bit of playing it can be, if not depending on your age you could have it uprated for £230 up to 4.2t.

    However, I am going to be right out the blue and against what all but one poster is telling you.

    You know the saying, if its to good to be true? well Im along with this on this van.

    This van is well under priced from a dealer. If it were a private sale i would still think it a little under priced but private being private etc. could of been worth a deal.

    This dealer is selling a 2007 van at 20k. Firstly, although this van is registered in 2007, it is certainly not a 2007 van. It is at least an 06 if not built and awaiting registration long before that. Check the colour scheme out, some one even said there 04 model is exactly the same.
    So why would this matter? well its more likely been an older van that has a history of some sort. What history we dont know, but all I would say is a van with a history of any sort is probably worth avoiding. Could it be an ex flood van? could it be an ex hire van? who knows?
    Don't get me wrong, I love ebay and I love buying and selling through there. I just sense something amiss with this and would tread very very carefully and don't get blinded by the wanting. As someone said, take ya time and look hard and fast.
    I hope John cross comes back with a little more info.


    oh one other trick i learnt. Go and have a look. Look at the paperwork and try and get memorise the log book name of the last owner. Come back and attempt directory enquiries for there number. Then, give them a bell and explain your sittuation and ask them about it. See what sort of response you get. I done this prior to buying a new car last year. naughty, yes, but well worth hearing what the real owners might have to say, and if they are decent motorhomers, im sure they will not mind you asking a question or two.
    whatever you decide, good luck
     
  15. johnsandywhite

    johnsandywhite Read Only Funster

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    :Smile: Already mentioned. The weight limit for the Garage is 150kg. However. You COULD fit some Air Suspension as I am going to fit. :thumb:
     
  16. lunarman

    lunarman Funster

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    I've had a look at MMM for the period. It says that the Sundance 630g was a 3850kg Maxi Chassis van with 618kg payload. The add says it is 3500kg. Did the "Mature couple" have it downplated because of driving licence restrictions

    Looking at the add it says that the price is "£21000 no vat" what does that mean? do you have to add 17.5% to the ad price which would bring the price up to a more realistic price for the year.

    Three Counties have one for sale http://ukcaravansforsale.co.uk/index.php?option=com_ezrealty&task=detail&id=104&Itemid=61 for £28k+

    also Cotswold Edge have a 2006 http://ukcaravansforsale.co.uk/index.php?option=com_ezrealty&task=detail&id=104&Itemid=61 for £27k

    So having said all that if it is £21k and is genuine then it is a bargain.

    Lunarman
     
  17. bevo

    bevo Read Only Funster

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    hi
    don't forget to do a HPI check on the van, it should show any dodgy history.
    contact the previous owner, he will certainly know all about the van.
    also as stated the no vat does suggest to me that it will be added at point of sale.
    but still a cheap van.
    watch jc he'll be up there buying for himself(ha ha ha)

    ps just had a good look on ebay it looks like a 2006 model registered in 2007.
    the van has new front and rear detailing that was only fitted after late 2005 into 2006.
    there were no issues with reverse judder on that model.
    if i were in the market for a van it would be near the top of my list.
     
  18. Brisey

    Brisey Funster Life Member

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  19. themountaintiger

    themountaintiger Read Only Funster

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    Well I would check it out on weighbridge first as advised previously, but £230 doesnt seem too expensive to uprate it if required...

    Yes I have done some basic checks re the date of registration of the van, and also a basic HPI check. Ive also looked at the shape of the cab. Ive noticed some of the Fiat cabs have colour coded bumpers i.e. white, for previous year models where this one is black. Ive been trying to work out if this is something to do with either age, are the colour coded ones what ive seen as the Carrera version or is it something to do with those only being sold via Brownhills/discover retailers (not sure of exact retailer).

    One I was considering with white bumper
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130367159373&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    One im looking at buying newer but black bumper??
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160406217402

    I think you have hit the nail on the head when you say it might have been awaiting registration for a while. I suppose my question would be, if this was the case would the motorhome at least still be worth its money as opposed to getting a good deal? (as long as it wasnt ex hire/ex flood etc etc)

    Something I wrote in my first post was to bring in the AA to check it out. Would their check on the vehicle tell me about any of the issues you are mentioning above???


    Dont worry, Im not overley excited or else I would have been there with a suitcase with £21k cash Saturday morning.... I thought I would ask those with more knowledge than me first...which is you guys on the forum for your opinions. If its not to be its not to be, but at least Im learning loads by going through the process!


    Its a good idea....
     
  20. themountaintiger

    themountaintiger Read Only Funster

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    Inc or ex Vat

    This is a really good point, normally businesses would say ex vat or inc vat, so no vat could depend on interpretation although I perceived this was inc vat...I will ask the question of the retailer cos that would be a deal breaker for me on my £20k budget.

    These also have the black colour bumpers and not the white one which Ive noticed even on older models.

     
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