The right tyres

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by Sunty, Dec 13, 2008.

  1. Sunty

    Sunty Read Only Funster

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    Hi all - I'm new to this site so not sure if this issue has cropped up before. My Swift motorhome is 6 years old with just short of 40,000 miles on the clock. New tyres will probably be the next expense and an enquiry at my local garage resulted in the question of 'ordinary' or 'camper' tyres being used. The owner didn't think the camper versions were at all necessary - just a lot more expensive!
    Anyone have experience in fitting 'ordinary' tyres or are 'camper' ones essential?
     
  2. flyboy

    flyboy Read Only Funster

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    I just use GoodYear Cargo G26 they are made for more weight than I carry cost me £85 each I have 6 of them. No problems at all. Can't see the sense in paying £50 / 60 more because they stamp camper on the tyre.
     
  3. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    As a supplier and fitter I too struggle to explain the differences in cost, The only honest advise I can give is the "Proper" tyres have been deigned and built for a specific purpose, IE Motorhomes,
    Why then can you buy commercial tyres with a higher weight capacity,The answers may be open to question but in my opinion they are different, are they worth the difference? is another question open to debate.
    Even selecting the right "proper" Motorhome tyre is difficult, see the tyre report below borrowed from another site.
    I don't believe weight is the only issue is it?
    Resistance to roll is a very important factor in a Motorhome and to this end "proper" tyres have extra sidewall reinforcing. 99% of commercial vans carry their weight at about, or just over waist height, Motorhomes on the other hand carry possibly 25% of their weight above head height
    Time is also a killer of tyres, and motohomes spend a great deal of time standing compared to their commercial counterparts, again different rubber compounds are used in these tyres to overcome this problem
    So its the age old comment, you pays yer money etc:Doh:
    Geo

    REPORT
    It looks like the Report is not displaying correctly

    Try this link Here

    Conti comes out top in German tyre reviews​
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Still on top in the wet! October 2008 "A number of European tests praised many Continental tyres, awarding them the highest scores in several categories. The German motoring magazine, AutoBild, tested the Conti Winter Contact TS 800, TS 810 and TS 830 tyres against sixty competitors. The testers said the TS 830 was a very well balanced tyre and gave it top marks on wet roads, on ice and on snow. The TS810 was praised for its good traction, short braking distances on snow and its excellent handling properties on both wet and dry roads. The tyre was awarded an "exemplary" rating. The Winter Contact TS 800 also came out top in the tests run by Europe's biggest motoring club. The Stiftung Warentest showed it to be the top performer on wet roads, and awarded it the highest ratings on snow and ice. All of the tests also paid tribute to Conti tyre performance with regard to safety, especially under wet conditions". Our own experiences with the Vanco Winter on our Hymer confirm these views.
    [​IMG]
    Back in 2006 Pro Mobil tested eight 'van / light truck' tyres on motorhomes. They tested the tyres using experienced drivers and sophisticated measuring equipment on two motorhomes at a Pirelli test track. The 215/75 R16C tyres were fitted to Ducato based Hymer A-class and Hightop motorhomes for testing. The results make very interesting reading!
    A number of different characteristics were assessed and measured. Results from the tests on dry braking & handling, noise, rolling resistance, etc, showed up some differences between the test tyres but nothing very surprising. The dry braking test from 100 kph (62.5 mph) for instance showed about a 10% difference in performance between the best and worst tyres.
    The all important tests in the wet were a different matter altogether. When braking from 80 kph (50 mph) the worst tyre took 53% more stopping distance than the best. To put that into perspective - if these two motorcaravans were side by side at 50 mph and both tried to stop simultaneously, the vehicle with the worst tyres would still be travelling at almost 30 mph when the first one had stopped! That's serious by anyone's standards, a 30 mph impact is very damaging, even lethal. Even the market leading Michelin XC Camping tyre took 25% more stopping distance than the best Conti under these test conditions. It was also the worst tyre for aquaplaning - by some margin, very worrying!
    Have a look at these amazing figures for wet performance...
    (All mph figures are calculated from kph and rounded & the 'extra distance' is our addition)...
    Wet Braking
    from 80Kph (50mph)
    MetresExtra distance Speed when top tyre has stoppedConti Vanco 31.90 0 Kph 0 mphConti Vanco Four Seasons32.8+3% Matador MPS 115 35.7+12% Hankook RA 08 37.2+17%30 Kph19 mphMichelin XC Camping39.8+25%35 Kph 22 mphMichelin Agilis 101 41.5+30% Goodyear Cargo G 9142.7+34% Bridgestone R 294 48.9+53%47 Kph29 mph
    Aquaplaning on 6mm water
    KphMphHankook RA 08 88.9(55.6)Goodyear Cargo G 9185.5(53.4)Bridgestone R 29485.0(53.1)Matador MPS 11585.0(53.1)Conti Vanco84.9(53.0)Conti Vanco Four Seasons84.4(52.8)Michelin Agilis 10183.7(52.3)Michelin XC Camping75.4(47.1)
    Wet breakaway, 88m circle KphMphConti Vanco58.9(36.8)Conti Vanco Four Seasons 58.3(36.4)Matador MPS 11557.6(36.0)Hankook RA 0857.4(35.9)Michelin XC Camping 57.4(35.9)Michelin Agilis 10156.8(35.5)Goodyear Cargo G 9156.8(35.5)Bridgestone R 29454.6(34.1)
    <B><FONT face=Arial size=2>Overall Ratings given by the ProMobil testers
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  4. flyboy

    flyboy Read Only Funster

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    I have just checked the Hobby manual. I have a 7500FMse. Tyre discription 215/75 R16 C no mention of camper, The markings on the G26 are the same.
     
  5. JayDee

    JayDee Funster

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    So what is the right tyre???

    There was an article in one of the magazines about the new Michelin Agilis - probably 2, which made interesting reading.
    The link that Geo gave will in turn link to the Continental website which talks about the Vanco Camper which other than highlighting the added protection from kerbing damage and being good in camping environments (grassy and muddy one imagines) is a bit sparse on detail.:RollEyes:
    However, I have another query.
    There's a thread on here (started by our ringleader if memory serves) that mentions a ruling that in winter months in winter climes you can be fined for not wearing winter tyres (eg Mud & Snows) and if you're involved in an accident and the lack of winter tyres can be shown to be contributory you'll likely find the book flying in your general direction. Now as far as I know - which admittedly ain't a lot - Camping Tyres are not designated as Winter Tyres. So what is one supposed to do?? Damned in both directions, as it were.:Eek!::Doh:

    As a matter of interest the ATS bloke I spoke to about this (without much edification) was astonished that the Michelin tyres showed up so poorly against the Continentals in the Pro-mobile tests.

    Anyway if there is anybody out there that knows the score here I would be grateful if you could enlighten me:thumb:

    Confused?? [​IMG][​IMG]
    Who, Me??[​IMG]

    :BigGrin:[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  6. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    hi flyboy,

    215/75 R16 C

    the C is the magic bit........that designates Camper.

    edit........it can also designate Commercial.....:Doh::Blush:

    have a look here for general info
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  7. Sunty

    Sunty Read Only Funster

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    Thanks for the responses. Very useful information indeed. I have a number for the technical department of Michelin - I think I will ring to seek their opinion although they make the 'camper' tyres so it may be 'in favour'. I will tout a few opinions from the local suppliers but the G26 seems to be top of the list at present.:shout:
    Sunty
     
  8. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    i think you'll find that is a new regulation for winter driving in austria.

    in the uk you can wear whatever boots you want in winter providing they conform to the legal requirements.......correct load/speed/ply rating for your vehicle and legal amount of tread.
     
  9. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    i had a new tyre fitted for the Ministry Of Trouble (MOT)test but they didnt have a camping tyre in stock so to avoid a fail ticket i bought a commercial tyre with a similar, but slightly lower, spec to the original.
    this was put on the spare and the as-new spare was put on the nice rear rim.

    my thinking is if i get a flat then the spare will be on for a few miles only as the rim is in a poor condition cosmeticly and doesnt look very nice.

    not sure but i think the camping tyre has a much firmer sidewall than commercial tyres.
     
  10. JayDee

    JayDee Funster

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    Hi John,
    Hadn't realised it was only Austria - I'd assumed all of M/L Europe that had 'winter' conditions; that would have included Germany, the Alps, the Pyrenees, etc.... [​IMG]
    Yes that's what I have gleaned from the bit of reading I have done - serves to reduce kerbing damage as well as standing still damage.

    Thanks
    John
     
  11. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

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    Winter Tyres/M + S tyres

    It is not ONLY Austria that has Winter tyre requirements - there are other Countries jumping on the band-wagon, as well. See <here>

    Here is the official AA view of the situation: <here>

    We in the UK can get by on any old tyres - BUT I wonder if that is the reason why so many people fall off the road at the very slightest amount of ice or snow?

    My experience of driving in Germany in Snow conditions was that 'ordinary' people cope with far more heavy downfalls spread over much longer periods of time that 'we' could ever hope to. At the slightest hint of a snowflake, this Country grinds to a halt to the extent that most Continentals laugh at us.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  12. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    heres a list of EU countries that do and dont require proper snow tyres,

    austria hant been updated but the laws says snow tyres required.

    HERE
     
  13. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    thanks dick......that is a really useful list and could be used again on this forum.

    now how do i save it.??? :Doh:
     
  14. Beachbum

    Beachbum Read Only Funster

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    I was given the impression that "C" at the end of the tyre type does not stand for Camper, but Commercial.
     
  15. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    agreed BB that was my mistake :Blush:
     
  16. Sunty

    Sunty Read Only Funster

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    Tyre info from the horse's mouth

    Thanks for all the info - I have been in contact with the Technical Team at Michelin who informed me that the camping tyres is specifically designed to be inflated up to a maximum of 80psi. Van tyres can only be inflated to 65psi. The pressure of the tyres on any axle relates directly to the weight being carried on that axle and the laden vehicle should be weighed and tyres adjusted accordingly. As a guide, the spokesman said with my rear axle weight at 2000kg the pressure should be 65psi - the front axle weight at 1500Kg means only 55Kg is required in the front tyres. He went on to comment that in Brtain we tend not to overload our vehicles as much as others might and maybe the camping tyre is not required here as opposed to the rest of Europe who subject their tyre to more abuse.
    The Michelin Technical Team canbe contacted on 01782 402000. Hope this helps. Sunty.:thumb:
     
  17. madbluemad

    madbluemad

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    Hi Minty

    I bought a Michelin camping tyre and it blew out after a week taking my inside tyre with it.

    I have never had a clear cut answer to your question.

    I contacted Michelin yesterday concerning the difference between the markings on a tyre manufactured in the states for the US market and a tyre manufactured in the UK for the UK market.

    They confirmed that they were different, something that nobody else has been able to do for me. What they didnt do was to explain what the differences are but I suppose a phone call to them would elicit a good response

    My view is if you get the right size and type of tyre, being careful with the load ratings you wont have a problem and shelling out for specials is hard on the pocket. The speed ratings need to be looked at of course however there wont be many tyres if any that have a lower speed rating than you need.

    Its all as clear as mud in it. Cheers Jim :Smile:
     
  18. bevo

    bevo Read Only Funster

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    tyres

    hi
    i have continental vanco tyres fitted as stsndard to my rollerteam, seem ok to me.
    read a report which said these tyres were the best in the wet and the michelin xp campers where one of the worst.
    the continental vanco tyres can be inflated to 70psi

    live long and prosper:Smile::Rofl1::BigGrin:
     
  19. JayDee

    JayDee Funster

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    Tyresafe.org

    There is a pdf document that gives all sorts of info about tyres, load ratings and so forth, with a seperate section for the special CP tyres.

    http://www.tyresafe.org/data/files/motorhome 08.pdf

    According to it the Fiat manual recommendation for my Ducato is about 10psi high. It certainly rides much better at the lower pressures.

    John
     
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