SVA's Watch out

Discussion in 'Fifth Wheelers' started by si sketch and sheryle, Jul 4, 2009.

  1. si sketch and sheryle

    si sketch and sheryle Read Only Funster

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    Experiencing some very frustating problems which have just about put us off for life.
    When we imported our F250 v10 truck from the states we were over the moon knowing that it would pull our Terry Quantum 295 rlts - no probs.
    However, when we had the SVA (british spec standardization) done in Southampton we did not realise that the max weight vehicle that a normal SVA garage can deal with is 3.5 ton. So to over come this problem the garage down rate the trucks spec to 3.5 ton. Therefore on paper our truck is not able, legally, to tow our trailer!!!
    We now need to find out how to have our truck re- SVA-ed at it's correct weight but don't know any garages that deal with commercial ford's.
    We have heard horror stories of people's vehicles being impounded because of this problem so we are obviously not the only ones who have experienced this
    Can anyone help before I drive the whole damn unit off a cliff!
     
  2. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

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    drive off a cliff, don't think so you are not legally allowed to tow it, hee hee.
     
  3. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    speak to gareth marsh at sv tec 01772 621800 tell him its for private use pulling a living van. i hope its for private use. you may need some verification of its design gross weight. trainwt. etc.i believe if its private it can be done voluntary only a paper chase. let us know how you get on .he is very helpfull.
     
  4. IanH

    IanH Read Only Funster

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    I would also like to know how you get on

    I would like to import my Dodge Ram 3500 dually

    I was at the Exeter VOSA station getting my chopper msva`d and asked the examiner bout sva ing my truck.
    He said i would never get it down to 3.5 ton rating and it would have to be imported as an HGV ,which means different duty rate ,fitting a tacho blah blah blah

    I didnt ask too much as i wanted to get the bike through
     
  5. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    I am not sure that you are being given the right information or are reaching the right conclusion here.
    Your F250 Truck has a GVWR of approx 10,000 lbs (this will depend on the year of manufacture, cab style, gearbox etc etc) this is approximately 4545 Kgs. Your truck has been downplated to 3500 Kgs (approximately 7700lbs).
    This is done to maintain your truck within the PLG category which means lower Road Fund Licence, but also means that the load you are able to carry in the pick up, (the cab and the bed) is less than it would have been, as the maximum allowable total weight of the truck is now some 1045 Kgs less than originally plated in the US.
    Providing that your Terry Quantum does not exceed either the maximum allowable towed weight for the F250 (unlikely) or that the MAM (maximum authorised mass) of the two combined units (that is pick up and 5'er) do not exceed your licence allowable maximum then you are OK. It is worth also checking that the pin weight of the Terry Quantum does not exceed the maximum allowable under the plating.
    My F250 and Rockwood 8280SS are well within the legal maxima.

    Hope this helps

    Rob
     
  6. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    Hmmmmm I think that you are being led on a dance here, if you speak to the specialist importers of 250, 350 and 450 trucks and they all routinely get them imported and 3500 kg plated.

    Rob
     
  7. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    cant help with the original imports or their 3.5 wt. but if you get it over 3.5 and use it to pull a living van the truck becomes plating n testing exempt. used private no tacho is needed. look up a V112G goods vehicle testing declaration of exemption form.Ian if your passing call in . also you pay less road tax as private large goods than one under 3.5.
     
  8. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

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    one slight problem I see here Rob is your assumption the tax goes down if it is below 3.5 ton, you are incorrect ,it actually goes up. Under 3.5 T= £185pa over that is a PHGV licence and only £165pa. Also if it has been down rated to a figure below its actual weight then it is overloaded straight away is it not. Just saying it weighs less does not make it so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2009
  9. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    The weight of the vehicle as it sits on Tarmac will not actually be the GVWR of the vehicle. For example, my F250 has a GVWR (downplated at SVA) of 3500 kgs. The kerb weight is 5814 lbs, so by deduction then the maximum payload will be 7700lbs minus 5814 lbs which equals 1886 lbs. This 1886 lbs refers to the load in the bed, fuel, fluids, passengers and driver etc etc.
    You are quite right.................I was basing my assumption on the rip off applied to my Saab.............most economical vehicle we own and yet because it was registered in 2007 the RFL is £400 now...............thieving b******s
     
  10. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi rob , using your figures it doesnt give much left for the pin weight. do you know your pin wt. its normally on a plate somewhere on trailer. also your trailer gvw.from what you say it would be better to up plate your truck . be worth more enquiries always say private (if thats true)makes a world of a difference.have tried to look on d.f.t. site but cant find a definate route to go about it . i would ring dvla at swansea be patient cosmo gencko is the man to speak to if you can get him. he did move up the ladder n as underlings now.
     
  11. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    Alan

    I know my pin weight, 482 Kgs, (1061 Lbs) which leaves me with approx 800lbs for load.
    I also tend to load more "kit" in to the 5'er as I have a cargo capacity of 1900 lbs.

    Thanks fopr the info alan re DVLA :thumb::thumb:
     
  12. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi, at that pin wt. you have a bit to spare. not enough wt tranfser to use the v112g form ,as 20%of trailer wt must be transfered at least. could still be usefull to up plate though. as then more fuel etc can be carried .at least your on the best side i know some american 5ers put more on pin then overload the truck if lowered to 3.5t.have fun .
     
  13. si sketch and sheryle

    si sketch and sheryle Read Only Funster

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    Hi vwalan

    Thanks for all the comments in reply to our original thread.

    We have now looked at the F250 and it has the following plate:-
    GVWR 4355 Kg
    Maximum loaded trailer weight 6350Kg
    GCWR 9525 Kg
    Rear GAWR 2767Kg

    Our Quantum has:-
    Hitch dry weight 855 Kg
    GVWR 5443 Kg
    Gross dry weight 4090 kg

    Not sure what all these fiqures mean - hense our dilema.

    We spoke to STT who told us that the F250 would have been downrated to 3500kg and therefore cannot legally tow the Quantum. They have vehicles for sale that have not been downrated but not Fords!!!

    What we need to know is whether we really have a problem and if so, can we can get the F250 uprated and how??

    Thanks
     
  14. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi sketch n sheryle. they down plate because its easier to get registration . originally pickup gross weight could be4355kg ..train weght (inc trailer)9525kg. trailer weighs 4090 dry .loaded 5443 kg .first a living van over 3,500kg needs mot. what is missing is the weight of your truck . if the truck weighs over 2800kg then you cant drive it on a car licence.its a problem with american 5ers that they weigh too much. the pickup could be uprated with a check with the vehicle certification agency in bristol (last i knew) but still there is a licence issue . if if the truck is the right weight under 2800kg its possible to lower the train wt 9525kg to 8.250kg then it would be ok . you need to put your truck on a wegh bridge have full fuel n passengers plus some luggage. let me know its weght or ring dvla. do you have hgv licence?lots of 5ers over 3.500kg are in use without mot because the owner doesnt realise the requirment. at 4090kg dry its not possible to down rate that. its hard to be definative on this one but i think the figures dont add up right. give me a ring 07971962361 may be easier talking. cheers alan
     
  15. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    OK There is a little more information needed in order to be able to calculate whether you are able to tow the Quantum with the F250.
    Do you know what the Dry weight of your F250 is?
    By deducting the Dry Weight from the 3500Kg plating weight you will arrive at a figure that is the permissible maximum payload. (check carefully as sometimes the figure given by the manufacturer is actually a "wet" weight, that is one with all fluids included but no passengers)
    This permissible maximum load minus the pin weight (hitch weight) will leave you with a figure, positive number = good news, negative number = bad news.
    Put another way, if you deduct the dry weight of the pick up from the plated maximum of 3500Kgs the resulting figure will be the maximum you are allowed to load into and onto your pick up.

    The other figure to consider is the MAM (maximum authorised mass), looking at your figures above then it would appear that your MAM, which is the sum of the GVWR of both the trailer and pick up, equals 8943 Kgs (5443Kgs for the trailer and 3500Kgs for the pick up)
    I would recommend that you check your maximum permissible weight allowed on your licence as this exceeds the 8250Kgs allowed on a "standard" pre 1997 Cat C1+E licence.

    With regard to uprating the F250 then the answer is yes, follow Alans advice in earlier posts.

    A quick phone call to the SVA dept at DVLA should give you all the information you need.

    I hope this helps.

    Rob
     
  16. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    thanks rob , cant always write what i talk. makes my head spin. better in kg,s dont like lbs.
     
  17. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    Alan you are very welcome.
    This whole business of weights is so thoroughly confusing, so I know what you mean about spinning heads :BigGrin: try as I have, I cannot find a definitive guide anywhere.
    I do wonder just how many people out there are motoring around with 5'ers, motorhomes and caravans(yes those too, remember the post 1997 licence maximum of 750 kgs unless a supplementary test is taken:Eeek:) blissfully unaware as to whether they are breaking the law.

    Maybe we should write a guide, get it signed off by DVLA and then publish it :BigGrin::BigGrin::BigGrin: Then again maybe not.

    Rob
     
  18. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i havelots of traffic law books here,. i find the easiest to use are freight haulage association plus the transport managers handbook by david lowe. have endless info from dvla dating back to the 1970s . spend hours to find the one sentence that works. . the 750kg was changed.soon after it was introduced. one of those mistakes in law corrected quietly.
     
  19. si sketch and sheryle

    si sketch and sheryle Read Only Funster

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    Thanks for that Alan, will get back to you with the dry weight of the truck.
    Looks like we have even more issues here than we first thought.
    No wonder everyone is confused. I will ring you soon, seems like you know a little more than most
    Cheers
    Simon
     

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