Sulfur.. Explosive risk?? (1 Viewer)

mjltigger

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New panic. Lots of sweary words..

So our Em said yesterday as she left for work... 'There's a beeping coming from the Campervan' .. left it till today because busy.. just went out and it was the carbon monoxide alarm and there was a stink in the van.. the older of the two batteries is hissing and bubbling.. I turned the charger off and left it to it's own devices but I'm wondering if there's a risk of fire leaving it like that...

Background. Zig charger went US. Bought a more powerful three stage amperor unit and replaced on Sunday. All worked well and left to charve the batteries.

So.. is the gassing just a normal but extreme side effect of the three stage charging getting the plates clean or is the battery broken and either way what's the safest thing to do now.. Leave alone until it settles or get the broken battery out quick..

I'm assuming I need to replace at least the hissing battery if not both but if you can tell me some science that will make me brave enough to tty charging it again I am willing to listen..

Off to Germany on Friday so need to get moving if I'm replacing g the battery(ies)
 

mike mcglynn

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Hi, same thing happened to my van result2 boiled batteries and resulting stink 2 new batterys from batterymegastore problem solved, old batterys were very hot and close to being dangerous to touch they were that hot
 
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mjltigger

mjltigger

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OK thanks for quick replies. Only the hissing battery is hot and it isn't too hot to touch so will just get one new one.. time to start shopping around.
 

RandallC

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Agreed. Gassing to that extent is serious and liberates large qua ties of Hydrogen.

Was the battery hot as well.

Suggest let everything cool and switch on the new charger and check the voltage on the batteries.

The charger should float the Batteries when fully charged at 2.24 volts per cell. A 12 volt battery has 6 cells therefore 13.44. Many car alternators charge at around 13.75 volts.

It's possible your batteries are past it or the charger is running amok.

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Minxy

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You should ideally have age/type/size matched batteries, replacing just the older one that's gone kaput could be a false economy - the new one will be more efficient that the remaining one and I believe in some instances an older one can reduce the efficiency of them both.
 

dave newell

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Best guess is one battery failed (internal short) causing original ZIG unit charger to fail (it just puts an extraordinary load on the charger) . By replacing the charger with a new one you have been pushing power into a dud battery hence the gassing/fizzing/stinking. Now its switched off leave it for 24 hours before you disconnect the bad battery. probably safest to replace both batteries unless you know the other is less than 12 months old.

D.

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mjltigger

mjltigger

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Thanks all..the other battery was new about 4 months ago so although it will no doubt have been abused by being connected to the old one, I'm happy to pair it with a new for a few months..

Bit concerned I might have to get one from halfrauds as the delivery from online places seems to be up to 9pm by which time I will be en route to Folkestone.
 

Minxy

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If you don't particularly need 2 leisure batteries at the moment, why not just disconnect the gubbings for the second one for now and sort it out when you get back.
 
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Thanks all..the other battery was new about 4 months ago so although it will no doubt have been abused by being connected to the old one, I'm happy to pair it with a new for a few months..

How good is your start battery? Is it worth changing that one for the nearly new one?
In the past I have wondered how battery's in Germany compare on price.

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mjltigger

mjltigger

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How good is your start battery? Is it worth changing that one for the nearly new one?
In the past I have wondered how battery's in Germany compare on price.
The start battery is good but not a known quantity. The crank power of the leisure battery is probably too low as well.

If you don't particularly need 2 leisure batteries at the moment, why not just disconnect the gubbings for the second one for now and sort it out when you get back.

I have deisel heating and I'm not sure if I will get hook up at the weekend so a little paranoid about it.. Probably just order this one

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And if it doesnt arrive before I leave just risk it...
 

JeanLuc

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Battery Megastore in Tewksbury offers next day delivery by 6pm. They are a good supplier. If the delivery is still a bit tight, try ringing them and see if you could collect - not that far from Trowbridge.
http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/

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pappajohn

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As Dave Newell said....leave 24hrs before disconnecting.

If the battery is still gassing a single spark when you disconnect could cause the battery to explode resulting in serious acid burns
 

Minxy

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How good is your start battery? Is it worth changing that one for the nearly new one?
In the past I have wondered how battery's in Germany compare on price.
A leisure battery isn't meant to be used as a starter battery, they are two different types.
 
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mjltigger

mjltigger

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Battery Megastore in Tewksbury offers next day delivery by 6pm. They are a good supplier. If the delivery is still a bit tight, try ringing them and see if you could collect - not that far from Trowbridge.
http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/

Thanks. I looked at theirs and their budget 110ah looks about the same spec as the eBay one for a tenner more.. both offer next day delivery 'where possible' so either is a risk.. and Tewkesbury is an hour and a half away in the opposite direction to the tunnel unfortunately..

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I think that the alarm should be enough warning of imminent danger.
Failed battery MUST go.
Leisure and starter batteries are not the same thing.
 

JeanLuc

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Your Ebay link is the same company - Battery Megastore. They sell a lot through their Ebay shop. Normally the prices are pretty much the same. I bought 2x Varta LFD90 from them at the beginning of 2015 - ordered over the phone - same price as on Ebay.
 
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mjltigger

mjltigger

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Your Ebay link is the same company - Battery Megastore. They sell a lot through their Ebay shop. Normally the prices are pretty much the same. I bought 2x Varta LFD90 from them at the beginning of 2015 - ordered over the phone - same price as on Ebay.

I saw the same name but as the ones on eBay weren't on their web site I figured it must be a clone.. Hmm.. well ordering it now won't make any difference.. phone call in the morning I think..

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Jan 8, 2013
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Minxy

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I agree they used to be but I was told by the Varta rep that's not true any more. At least not their battery's.

http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/professional-dual-purpose/

Although I think it is still true of the semi traction type.

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The Varta rep isn't right! SOME of the Varta batteries are specially designed 'dual purpose' ones, but not all, other Varta products for example do not claim to be dual purpose, therefore they have their specific use, either a starter or a leisure battery but not both. If you look at the charts on the below page whilst the first table show some are 'able' to do both jobs, looking at the lower table you can see how 'well' they can do it, some are more suited to being starters and some better for leisure.

http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/applications-comparison/

A starter battery needs to be able to kick out a large amount of power for a short period of time, whereas a leisure battery needs to be able to give out a lower amount of power but over a longer period of time and be able to withstand being discharged more deeply.

Personally I'd rather have a leisure battery that is meant to do that job as best it can, rather than one that can be used as a starter battery if needed to the detriment of leisure capacity/durability. The ONLY Varta one that appears to be 'good' at both is the Professional Dual Purpose AGM but I suspect at quite price.
 

Doctor Dave

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New panic. Lots of sweary words..

So our Em said yesterday as she left for work... 'There's a beeping coming from the Campervan' .. left it till today because busy.. just went out and it was the carbon monoxide alarm and there was a stink in the van.. the older of the two batteries is hissing and bubbling.. I turned the charger off and left it to it's own devices but I'm wondering if there's a risk of fire leaving it like that...

Background. Zig charger went US. Bought a more powerful three stage amperor unit and replaced on Sunday. All worked well and left to charve the batteries.

So.. is the gassing just a normal but extreme side effect of the three stage charging getting the plates clean or is the battery broken and either way what's the safest thing to do now.. Leave alone until it settles or get the broken battery out quick..

I'm assuming I need to replace at least the hissing battery if not both but if you can tell me some science that will make me brave enough to tty charging it again I am willing to listen..

Off to Germany on Friday so need to get moving if I'm replacing g the battery(ies)


You could try the marina in Trowbridge, they should stock a variety of batteries.


Dave

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Peter A Forbes

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Mel:

Battery capacity is determined by plate area.

Battery voltage is determined by the number of cells.

Given two batteries of 12V 100AH, both wet types for the sake of argument, how would a manufacturer make one a 'leisure battery' and one a 'vehicle battery' ?

In practice, there is almost no difference, as the technology is mature and other than calcium additives which are 'fairly' recent, not much has changed in the last 30 years, other than the advent of 'consumer leisure' batteries which are premium priced but don't really justify the price or the tag.

A lead-acid vented wet battery is going to have the same characteristics as another lead-acid vented wet battery, you can't really make them that different.

Some will have extra electrolyte in a slightly deeper case, some will be labelled 'deep discharge', but in reality the life of a battery is determined by the care it is given by the owner and the quality of the lead and lead pastes used in the plates, there isn't a lot else in there!

Peter
 
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mjltigger

mjltigger

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Mel:

Battery capacity is determined by plate area.

Battery voltage is determined by the number of cells.

Given two batteries of 12V 100AH, both wet types for the sake of argument, how would a manufacturer make one a 'leisure battery' and one a 'vehicle battery' ?

In practice, there is almost no difference, as the technology is mature and other than calcium additives which are 'fairly' recent, not much has changed in the last 30 years, other than the advent of 'consumer leisure' batteries which are premium priced but don't really justify the price or the tag.

A lead-acid vented wet battery is going to have the same characteristics as another lead-acid vented wet battery, you can't really make them that different.

Some will have extra electrolyte in a slightly deeper case, some will be labelled 'deep discharge', but in reality the life of a battery is determined by the care it is given by the owner and the quality of the lead and lead pastes used in the plates, there isn't a lot else in there!

Peter

Seems there is a different construction used. Leisure batteries have thicker plates so they are less likely to warp in use apparently. In terms if dual purpose, the Cole cranking ability of the dual purpose ones I've seen isn't enough for most big deisels. It seems you let less cycles in the dual use ones as well.

Now that could all be marketing tripe but as I don't know how to make my own battery from the minerals I don't know how to mine from the ground I have to use the information available to make a buying decision. On the basis of price I would be willing to use dual use battery as a leisure battery but not to run the engine.
 
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I have been buying leisure battery's for over 20 years and I have become increasing sceptical about leisure battery's. There are so many that simply have a sticker claiming all kinds wonderful performance, they might as well say Micky Mouse. Most 'leisure' battery's are simply a cheap 110A battery and without being able to see inside you have no idea. Cheap price and light weight are a perfect indicator of poor quality and performance.
You have to buy them from a reputable manufacturer to have a chance that they are what the say on the sticker.
Also starting a standard motor home engine is not a big load, little more than a diesel car - compared to starting a proper a truck.
I would say that the only ones with significantly thicker plates would be the semi traction type battery's designed for golf carts and fork trucks from Trojan or US battery's

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Peter A Forbes

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Seems there is a different construction used. Leisure batteries have thicker plates so they are less likely to warp in use apparently. In terms if dual purpose, the Cole cranking ability of the dual purpose ones I've seen isn't enough for most big deisels. It seems you let less cycles in the dual use ones as well.

Now that could all be marketing tripe but as I don't know how to make my own battery from the minerals I don't know how to mine from the ground I have to use the information available to make a buying decision. On the basis of price I would be willing to use dual use battery as a leisure battery but not to run the engine.

Most batteries now are made in the far east, and if you buy them in container loads you can have your own name/label on the battery etc etc. Most of the small sellers in the market just buy theirs from a big factory in China.

Thicker plates let you hold more active material and makes the plate more resistant to buckling, but plate area is what gives you the capacity of the battery and that is what you are buying at the end of the day.

Marketing hype gives the excuse for higher retail prices and not much else.

Peter
 
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mjltigger

mjltigger

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Your Ebay link is the same company - Battery Megastore. They sell a lot through their Ebay shop. Normally the prices are pretty much the same. I bought 2x Varta LFD90 from them at the beginning of 2015 - ordered over the phone - same price as on Ebay.
I called the number on the web site and they said the best way to get the deal was buy it now on Ebay.. they processed my order and marked it as dispatched in minutes and then confirmed they have sent the battery next day delivery for e to get tomorrow.. tonight I will pull the old one out and turn the charger back on to make sure the remaining battery is as good as possible before I connect the new one (which I will probably do while Ms Tiggs makes the bed during the tunnel crossing)

all seems too easy... but then spending money usually is :D

thanks to all for your various helps
 

maxi77

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Mel:

Battery capacity is determined by plate area.

Battery voltage is determined by the number of cells.

Given two batteries of 12V 100AH, both wet types for the sake of argument, how would a manufacturer make one a 'leisure battery' and one a 'vehicle battery' ?

In practice, there is almost no difference, as the technology is mature and other than calcium additives which are 'fairly' recent, not much has changed in the last 30 years, other than the advent of 'consumer leisure' batteries which are premium priced but don't really justify the price or the tag.

A lead-acid vented wet battery is going to have the same characteristics as another lead-acid vented wet battery, you can't really make them that different.

Some will have extra electrolyte in a slightly deeper case, some will be labelled 'deep discharge', but in reality the life of a battery is determined by the care it is given by the owner and the quality of the lead and lead pastes used in the plates, there isn't a lot else in there!

Peter


Whilst it would not surprise me to find some of the cheaper offerings simple being boxes with different labels but the same inside the construction of starter, leisure and traction batteries are different. Starting at the starter it is intended to give high currents for short periods and tends to have more thinner plates for a given A/H capacity. Also its resistance to deep discharge is limited. At the other end of the scale the traction battery has fewer but thicker plates and is intended to give much lower currents but for much longer periods than the starter battery, and the sort of current draws for starting may actually cause damage. Leisure batteries are a compromise and can reasonably tolerate deep discharge but still provide starting currents. On my last boat when I bought it all the batteries were leisure, and starting the engine was laboured to say the least. I changed the starting battery to the same as I used on my Bongo and the change was most noticeable, started well first time with minimal preheat.

I do agree though that owner care will always have an impact on service life, treat it well it will longer than if you treat it badly

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