Sterling alternator to battery Charger. (1 Viewer)

[haganap]

I do find some of these comments quite amazing.

You ask a simple question on whether fitting something is a simple job or one that needs specialist installation,
You do so regarding a product that DOES WORK and many other motorhomers use,
You do so knowing needs and MY needs are only known by me,

And do you think you get an answer?

No, you get a lecture on running a motorhome too close to another, information on Solar panels and an explanation that Sterling must be wrong and the product would be useless.

FGS,

only in motorhome forum world could you get all this for a tenner.

anyhow,
Thank's to Chris Green for understanding the product, and Ken for pointing out one of the things to be taken in to consideration.

I have now contacted Stirling themselves and got the answer I needed and the information backing up what at least two others I know have fitted and have seen in action.
One of whom spent 7 nights away with me at -20 and started his engine for an hour to achieve what I did with 8 hours of generator use.
Rory, I asked your question, its a categorical no, it in no ways interferes with the ECU,

 

[slobadoberbob]

as you say ...worth £10

I do find some of these comments quite amazing.

You ask a simple question on whether fitting something is a simple job or one that needs specialist installation,
You do so regarding a product that DOES WORK and many other motorhomers use,
You do so knowing MY needs and MY needs are only known by me,

And do you think you get an answer?

No, you get a lecture on running a motorhome too close to another, information on Solar panels and an explanation that Sterling must be wrong and the product would be useless.

FGS,

only in motorhome forum world could you get all this for a tenner.

anyhow,
Thank's to Chris Green for understanding the product, and Ken for pointing out one of the things to be taken in to consideration.

I have now contacted Stirling themselves and got the answer I needed and the information backing up what at least two others I know have fitted and have seen in action.
One of whom spent 7 nights away with me at -20 and started his engine for an hour to achieve what I did with 8 hours of generator use.
Rory, I asked your question, its a categorical no, it in no ways interferes with the ECU,

As you say well worth £10 a year.. all the opinions, going off subject, getting information and views you did not want must have made you afternoon Paul....

It did make mine, seeing you getting more frustrated by the post.....:Blush: should have called Sterling first... They are very helpful.

I like to see what other people think about something.. good, bad or indifferent, at least they give a view want it or not.

Bob

 

[scotjimland]

only in motorhome forum world could you get all this for a tenner.

,

Yes indeed...

Next question... are A frames legal ... ?

been done to death but I need info on bike racks and how to tune a uke...

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[MONSI]

Paul I did tell you it would be ok oh: now all you have to do is get it fitted :thumb:

 

[haganap]

Paul I did tell you it would be ok oh: now all you have to do is get it fitted :thumb:

yes but I FB you a link to one and you aint back to me yet, so I thought I would ask the experts

 

[slobadoberbob]

forget the uke

Yes indeed...

Next question... are A frames legal ... ?

been done to death but I need info on bike racks and how to tune a uke...

I have ignored the A frames Jim... and yes I can tune the uke.. does it make it sound better

Today I have been tuning the Lap steel guitar and playing along to some very nice Eagle's tunes... latest toy.. makes a great sounds as some will find out soon.. I am happy to accept donations not to play .. now with 92 at Peterborough I could make a fortune.


Bob:Blush: p.s I did not even have to use the fishing line today.

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[Xabia]

But again, thank you for your help but your missing the point.

I have an 80w solar panel already and TBH, in my situation is overrated and useless.

If I camped in Spain like the rest of these people, fine, but we don't. The most I saw out of my solar panel was 2amps this weekend in Chester. Now bearing in mind that most of my time is spent camping in a British winter in the hills of Scotland, where sunlight becomes available between 9 and 4 that's 6 hours of solar charging. This in turn would equate (on this wkends figures) to 14 amps if I was very very lucky.
Now, again, for you who sits in the van wearing a big thick jumper reading a book, that might be fine. For me, who has, 2 laptops running, heating running (blown air high drain) a TV and various other charging going on, Im knacked before I even think about drying hair.
No amount of solar panels will solve my problem.


The only solving is a Alternator to Battery charger and decent batteries.

So can I please pretty please ask again.

Has any one fitted one of these them self? is it a DIY job? I have seen the fitting instructions and they appear quite simple.

Well I have fitted a B2B charger myself and didn't find it to be a problem. It was the Ctek one, chose this because the charge is limited to 20amps and I thought that the 50 pushed out by the Sterling was a bit high. Also Ctek have an excellent international reputation for their chargers.

They supply very simple instructions for fitting, if you search on the web their site includes a diagram. Basically run a power lead from starter battery to charger, power lead from charger to leisure battery and earth lead from charger to negative on leisure battery. Simples! Just remember to ensure that the power cable from the starter battery is thick enough for the charge it is going to carry in relation to the distance between the items.

If you buy from Roadpro they are very helpful re any advice.

Works a treat for me.

 

[jhorsf]

Paul as regards your question should I DIY
if say Dave Newell or Eddie Vanbitz asked you "I think I may have broken my arm but I know how to put it in plaster should I DIY", what would be your reply .Sorry I know this may sound silly to you, but you could quite easily do something that is a potential danger, as the exaggerated example above shows a little knowledge being dangerous.
I would ask one of the Pro's on here for a quote for the work they will know the obvious dangers you may not, you paid all that money for a van let a properly qualified electrician do the work or at least inspect it after giving you advice it takes a very simple mistake for a fire to start.If indeed you decide to fit something that is fairly easy to fit then the cost should be low anyway.


This is just my opinion and is not meant to offend but after many years of seeing things that are DIY and "work" ok but are a potential death trap through my eyes ( a spark) why save a few quid on that expensive Motorhome by DIY wiring .Horses for courses springs to mind

 

[jonandshell]

You can't knock the Sterling kit! Our 50Amp B2B charger keeps us going fine.

During 5 days and nights in Val Thorens, we had enough battery power from our 330Ah battery bank to run the TV/DVD for a couple of hours each night, lights as required and the Webasto Dualtop constantly, maintaining 20 degrees C + in the van and hot water.
We only ran the van for 1 1/4 hrs on the lunchtime of day 4 to keep things topped up!

The only thing we wish for is a bigger B2B charger for faster charges for extended stays! A 100 hundred Amp unit should keep our 140 Amp alternator busy!

One thing to remember though, is when you fit a B2B or Alternator2B charger, is to make sure you fit an isolator relay to disconnect the battery bank from your habitation electrics when the engine is running. The reason for this is that the charger won't sense the batteries correctly and the charger won't charge your batteries properly! It will be too busy trying to run your fridge and supply it's own input!

If you haven't done this and you already have a B2B charger, the bad news is you won't be getting any benefit from your expensive purchase!oh:

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[slobadoberbob]

I let VanBitz do the electrics

VanBitz have done all my electrics to date.. that includes the Sterling Pro-Comi Invertor, the reverse polarity unit, the battery master... plus the alarm, the staterlite TV, the back up camera... they are the experts... now if it was a legal matter I would ask myself.:Blush:

But as I only know the basics of RV electrics I go to an expert... I have seen the size of cable they fitted in the RV for the Sterling.. boy it is mega..

Bob

 

[Diabalo]

I bet Glen at Johns Cross would know

 

[hilldweller]

I have now contacted Stirling themselves and got the answer I needed

But not a totally unbiased one from people who have your best interests at heart.

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[haganap]

Paul I did tell you it would be ok oh: now all you have to do is get it fitted :thumb:

Well I have fitted a B2B charger myself and didn't find it to be a problem. It was the Ctek one, chose this because the charge is limited to 20amps and I thought that the 50 pushed out by the Sterling was a bit high. Also Ctek have an excellent international reputation for their chargers.

They supply very simple instructions for fitting, if you search on the web their site includes a diagram. Basically run a power lead from starter battery to charger, power lead from charger to leisure battery and earth lead from charger to negative on leisure battery. Simples! Just remember to ensure that the power cable from the starter battery is thick enough for the charge it is going to carry in relation to the distance between the items.

If you buy from Roadpro they are very helpful re any advice.

Works a treat for me.

You can't knock the Sterling kit! Our 50Amp B2B charger keeps us going fine.

During 5 days and nights in Val Thorens, we had enough battery power from our 330Ah battery bank to run the TV/DVD for a couple of hours each night, lights as required and the Webasto Dualtop constantly, maintaining 20 degrees C + in the van and hot water.
We only ran the van for 1 1/4 hrs on the lunchtime of day 4 to keep things topped up!

The only thing we wish for is a bigger B2B charger for faster charges for extended stays! A 100 hundred Amp unit should keep our 140 Amp alternator busy!

One thing to remember though, is when you fit a B2B or Alternator2B charger, is to make sure you fit an isolator relay to disconnect the battery bank from your habitation electrics when the engine is running. The reason for this is that the charger won't sense the batteries correctly and the charger won't charge your batteries properly! It will be too busy trying to run your fridge and supply it's own input!

If you haven't done this and you already have a B2B charger, the bad news is you won't be getting any benefit from your expensive purchase!oh:

But not a totally unbiased one from people who have your best interests at heart.

Well Brian what can I say, never a better testermant from those who have what I want, use it, and speak highly of it....
Now what do you know about isolator relays?

 

[Terry]

Hi Paul, it looks a nice bit of kit but I am no way electric-ery knowledgeable (but I know a man who can ) it just seems to me it is a expensive relay (somebody's got to say it )or am I missing the point ? I probably am
terry

 

[hilldweller]

Now what do you know about isolator relays?

Lets do it your way, tell me what you want me to agree to.

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[jonandshell]

Ok here goes...............

The Sterling B2B charger increases the useable capacity of your battery/batteries by charging them at a higher voltage (14.8V). The unit uses electrickery and witchcraft to amplify the alternator's output voltage of 14.4-14.5V. It just so happens this increased voltage creates more current and the battery charges faster as a result. A side effect of this increased charging current is less sulphation and longer battery life.
The reason that alternators do not charge at this increased voltage is because to do so will cause more battery gassing, water loss and more topping-up required by the battery owner. Obviously, this is not desireable in a modern motor vehicle and is the only downside of a Sterling setup. Having said that, we only need to top up once a year and our batteries are 3 years old with no sign of waining.

OK, now for that relay!
We use a 80Amp 5-pin relay to isolate the caravan electrics from the leisure battery bank whilst the engine is running. This relay is switched to open circuit by an ignition live.
When the engine runs, the leisure batteries are connected to the output of the B2B charger and NOTHING ELSE! When the ignition is switched off, the leisure battery is reconnected to the caravan electrics and it is business as usual!
The fridge, etc works in the normal way from the starter battery via the split charge relay and distribution panel.
As mentioned earlier, this relay is ESSENTIAL to prevent your B2B charger's input being connected to it's output via the existing split charge relay and the B2B charger being rendered useless!

Hope this explains things Paul!:thumb:

 

[eddie]

Children Children Children!

I will take both to the Peterborough show and explain the benefits of each to any one interested.

A quick answer is a Sterling B2B is easier to fit than the Alternator to Battery charger as the cabling on the A2B charger has to reflect the output of the alternator, allowing for voltage drop, whereas the B2B (say 50amp) the cabling is normally OK at say 25mm2 for shorter installation runs.

Heavier cabling means heavier fuses and waterproofing under the bonnet etc.

Also connecting the B2B between the batteries is not going to invalidate any warranties, whereas connecting the output of the alternator thus changing the manufacturers equipment and cause warranty issues. It shouldn't but in the real world it can!

Sterling equipment is great stuff and we have sold and installed loads of it over the years (which is why we can offer such good prices) I would vastly prefer it over Ctek

Personally I cannot see the point of changing a system to only get 20amp outputoh:

RV's by the way, regarding battery charging are wired in a much better way which means that there is no need (normally) for a A2B or a B2B To give you an example, yesterday when I started up, my on board power management system told me that I was pumping in 87amps when I started my RV to come home after five days away!

Does this explain or help?

Eddie

 

[jonandshell]

Nice one Eddie!:thumb:

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[pappajohn]

looking at the diagram in your link Paul, and i reckon it wont do your leisure batteries any favours.

it appears to have an output to the leisure batteries of 14.1v to 14.8v......hour after hour, day after day when driving.....a sure way to boil yer batteries dry in a short time.
although it should be regulated oh:

looks dead easy to diy fit once you get the alternator connections in place....right down the back of the engine and out of reach if i remember right

 

[haganap]

Thank you Jon and Eddie, hope your explanation's were accepted by those that doubt the real world of this product.

However,
My initial question, was, Is it a DIY fit or should it be a shop job for someone reasonably competent?

Taking on board that the A2B in effect provides no bennefit over the B2B charger, would the B2B be the better option?
Just when I thought that I had it sussed Jon has thrown in the Isolator, so Ive gone from thinking decent cable to the Battery from the B2B, to connecting to the LB bank with of course the correct weighted cable and any fuse requirements.
Cant see the isolator on the diagrams (not doubting you jon) or the fitting instructions.

Next can I ask about amps? can I expect 50amps whilst running the engine?
how many would I be getting now on my Swift do you think?

 

[hilldweller]

Next can I ask about amps? can I expect 50amps whilst running the engine?

<FX best Gerte Froebe voice> No Mr Haganap, you have 140 amps.

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[jonandshell]

OK Paul, you have to take into account that your existing split charge relay will short circuit across your new B2B charger when you start your engine. Thus connecting its input to its output and confusing the poor thing! Your split charge relay connects the starter battery to the leisure battery right?
You need to insert that isolating relay in the wiring between your leisure battery bank and distribution panel. This means putting it in the existing leisure battery positive cable.
This will ensure that the Sterling charger's output will only be connected to the leisure battery with the engine running!:thumb:

If the battery is big enough to suck it up, you will see 50amps Paul!

As for DIY or not to DIY, I can't comment on your abilities!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[slobadoberbob]

yes 100% clear

Children Children Children!

I will take both to the Peterborough show and explain the benefits of each to any one interested.

A quick answer is a Sterling B2B is easier to fit than the Alternator to Battery charger as the cabling on the A2B charger has to reflect the output of the alternator, allowing for voltage drop, whereas the B2B (say 50amp) the cabling is normally OK at say 25mm2 for shorter installation runs.

Heavier cabling means heavier fuses and waterproofing under the bonnet etc.

Also connecting the B2B between the batteries is not going to invalidate any warranties, whereas connecting the output of the alternator thus changing the manufacturers equipment and cause warranty issues. It shouldn't but in the real world it can!

Sterling equipment is great stuff and we have sold and installed loads of it over the years (which is why we can offer such good prices) I would vastly prefer it over Ctek

Personally I cannot see the point of changing a system to only get 20amp outputoh:

RV's by the way, regarding battery charging are wired in a much better way which means that there is no need (normally) for a A2B or a B2B To give you an example, yesterday when I started up, my on board power management system told me that I was pumping in 87amps when I started my RV to come home after five days away!

Does this explain or help?

Eddie

I can confirm the RV charging as I have a similar chassis to Eddie - also a Winnebago and Eddie showed me on mine how it worked. ... it is a case of I know a man that can... Thanks Eddie


Bob:thumb:

 

[eddie]

Thank you Jon and Eddie, hope your explanation's were accepted by those that doubt the real world of this product.

However,
My initial question, was, Is it a DIY fit or should it be a shop job for someone reasonably competent?

Taking on board that the A2B in effect provides no bennefit over the B2B charger, would the B2B be the better option?
Just when I thought that I had it sussed Jon has thrown in the Isolator, so Ive gone from thinking decent cable to the Battery from the B2B, to connecting to the LB bank with of course the correct weighted cable and any fuse requirements.
Cant see the isolator on the diagrams (not doubting you jon) or the fitting instructions.

Next can I ask about amps? can I expect 50amps whilst running the engine?
how many would I be getting now on my Swift do you think?

I wouldn't recommend DIY to anyone that asks if it is DIY if that makes sense.

We use lots of cable, 25mm2 30mm2 35mm2 with all the conduit clips etc to make a good job. In addition we make all our own cables with the correct ends to suit the correct fuse blocks and holders.

As John said you will have to isolate the existing split (contradiction of terms:Angry charge relay.

The B2B will only "charge" the leisure battery when the voltages are correct and they will only be "correct" when there is output from the alternator to the engine battery so that side of it is simple. The set up is done using DIP switches and the instructions are good.

We don't retail the unit on line as then we "adopt" the technical issues of the customer and we have no idea what their ability is!

On tick over, on average, with a battery that is about 70% charged you will see circa 35amps being transferred into your leisure batteries.

The Sterling unit is a multi stage charger so you will not suffer premature battery failiure, actually your more likely to suffer with the poor charging characteristics of the converters attempt to charge the leisure batteries whilst driving.

Normally, with a conventional "split charge relay" set up you'll arrive with your leisure batteries showing 100% on your gauge (which only measures voltage in most cases) yet you will only actually be charged to about 80% of the capacity.

Don't believe me? look at the cable that say Fiat use from the alternator to the engine battery! About the diameter of a 1p coin, to connect a battery about one metre away from the alternator.

Now think that the motorhome converter has added an extra couple of batteries and a massive fridge freezer running off a system that was designed, as a delivery van, to stop start every day without making any other changes In addition to that, the leisure batteries are connected five metres away, using a very thin cable about the diameter of a shoe lace! How can that work the same?

Don't even start me on German manufactures that insist on putting GEL leisure batteries in and charging them in parallel with the lead acid engine battery and claiming their system "superior" haha they should mean "special"

It's all good fun though!:thumb:

Eddie

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[haganap]

Thank's Eddie,
That just about sums it up really. I do hope some that have questioned might actually understand the benefits of this system for my needs, ie 2 kids, 3 laptops women with hair DVDs etc.

And mainly, my rule of thumb is, If you have to ask if it can be done DIY, then you should not be attempting it. My only thinking was that the diagram looked real simple. Maybe Ill get my Dad in, as a Helicopter technician im sure he will know what it all means. :thumb:

 

[chrisgreen]

i think its an easy diy project:thumb:
the only downside is bypassing the split charger and uprateing the cable that runs to the LB,and bypassing the isolation relay that disable's the hab area when the engine is running,but this is all get aroundable?

 

[JJ]

Whilst I can,on the rare occasions I need to, do a Faro shuffle with the pack in my hands I was thinking of setting myself the task of learning the Table Faro Shuffle... As one of the most difficult sleights around, and given I am over sixty, do Funsters think I should invest all the time and effort in this project or should I just ask a question about DIY on Motorhome Fun?

Please do not let the fact that you don't understand the question fully stop you from giving advice...


JJ :Cool:

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[chrisgreen]

Whilst I can,on the rare occasions I need to, do a Faro shuffle with the pack in my hands I was thinking of setting myself the task of learning the Table Faro Shuffle... As one of the most difficult sleights around, and given I am over sixty, do Funsters think I should invest all the time and effort in this project or should I just ask a question about DIY on Motorhome Fun?

Please do not let the fact that you don't understand the question fully stop you from giving advice...


JJ :Cool:

dont believe what people say! an old DOG can learn new trick's :thumb:
go for it :thumb:

 

[hilldweller]

I do hope some that have questioned might actually understand the benefits of this system for my needs

He just shot you down.

Only 35A available on tickover.
Standard system system gives you 80% charge.

So for that extra 20% you are going to add all this complexity and worse have your diesel running with a brick on the throttle pedal.

All you have to do it tell Nikki her hair looks wonderful if just gently rubbed with a towel. You might try running your kids off Fray Bentos pies instead of electricity.

 

[hilldweller]

dont believe what people say! an old DOG can learn new trick's :thumb:
go for it :thumb:

Yes but next day they've forgotten them.

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