Speeding ticket - but what if?

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by normanandsue, Feb 13, 2016.

  1. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    We have just returned from a month in Spain to find a speeding ticket from Thames Valley police, fo exceding 20mph speed limit by 4mph.
    I am not complaining about the speeding ticket, but on the return form it says it must be completed and returned within 28 days. We met loads of mhers who were away for three months or more and who, if receiving one of these tickets whilst setting off, woul be unable to complete the firm within the time period.
    Would they then face a double whammy for not replying within the specified time span.

    Just a thouught
     
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  2. PhilandMena

    PhilandMena Funster

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    You might want to check that where you were caught has a legally imposed 20 mph limit and not just an advisory one. Although I suspect the plod are probably in the right if it's a fixed camera and not contracted out to a mobile team. If you write to them and explain your circumstances I'm sure they will waive any additional penalty on provision of proof.
    24 mph in a 20 mph zone does sound very harsh to me.
     
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  3. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    I remember the place Phil and it was a cop with a handheld, because I smugly thought zi will be OK I am doing well under 30mph, but my worry is not the ticket, but what would have happened, had I been away for 90 days?
     
  4. Anthea M

    Anthea M Funster

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    Years ago our friends were setting off for a 6 month world trip when the night before were flashed by a speed camera . We had a text message asking to open mail and pay the fine ! Went every day for a month but no letter came.!
     
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  5. Camdoon

    Camdoon Funster Life Member

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    The one thing about having passport controls is you can prove you were out the country. Also you can forward your mail to a son/daughter as most companies/banks etc prefer sending you an email so not as revealing as a few years ago.
     
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  6. PhilandMena

    PhilandMena Funster

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    IMO you need to check out if the 20 mph zone is legal, it's possible this is a money raiser by the police or an uniformed plod thinking the speed limit is legal.
    You could write and explain why you have been delayed in responding, pay the fine AND ask them to confirm in writing that the speed limit of 20 mph is legally enforceable which would give you some comeback if you later find out it is not. Just sticking a 20 mph limit sign up does not impose a legally binding speed limit.
    Of course, there is a chance it is and your banged to rights but still harsh in my book
     
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  7. CWH

    CWH Funster Life Member

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    OP is not disputing the fine.

    Why this apparent need to avoid penalties for breaching law OR requests for (eg) speed limits set to make places safer??? o_O
     
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  8. DanielFord

    DanielFord Funster

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    Of course, but there is a requirement that the signs are clear so that the motorists are aware of the limit. A limit sign hidden by a hedge would not conform for example. Signs that are missing are another example, that one has happened to me, thank god for dash cams!
    But as you say, OP seems to agree that the limit was clear, they just missed it.

    To answer the original question, I believe that if you fail to answer the S172 request within the allotted time, then you will be summonsed. This takes ages, and you will be able to answer with mitigation and proof of absence. At that point a new S172 will be sent, you identify the driver and accept the penalty.
    To the best of my knowledge that is the process.
     
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  9. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    I think not our passport never left our hands we just waved them at passport control who waved us through.
    But clealry having someone open your mail whilst away is a sensible option.
     
  10. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Officially it would be taken to court as it was ignored.
     
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  11. Fenman

    Fenman Funster

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    But when you booked the crossing you had to give your details - passport number etc, - and you will be registered with the ferry/tunnel as travelling. So you do have proof.
     
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  12. Larrynwin

    Larrynwin Funster

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    Annoying with such a close margin of speed but thats the law.
    In car or motorhome I always have my Garmin on as it warns when you exceed limit by 1mph, although the occasional limit is out of date , most are not.
     
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  13. Flamenca

    Flamenca Funster Life Member

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    How can a private individual gain access to the passport control data?
     
  14. scotzsue

    scotzsue Funster

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    You may also have receipts for campsites atm supermarket receipts. mobile phone may also register your whereabouts. you can always direct them here where you will have been posting all about your travels.
     
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  15. gus-lopez

    gus-lopez Funster

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    Can't be camera as most have no certification below 30mph. They need to check though whether it is correctly signed as op thought it was 30mph

    Then why were you not stopped ? I'd just deny it unless they have photographic evidence & ask to see it.

    I'd be wanting photos as a handheld has to be stopped at the time otherwise you'll end up the same as here where they don't have to stop you & can rely on "remembering the registration" , then send on any offence they've thought of.

    He should be. hand held speed gun should be stopped at time unless camera attached. Additionally he thought it was 30mph. Moght be signage not good or op assuming it was still a 30 ?
    I have no problem with limits /penalties as long as the limit is introduced correctly, the signage is correct & operation of the actual equipment, including the necessary checks /calibration is done in accordance with requirements, & by a fully trained operator. Any deviation from the above & it is the same as "taking money under false pretences " and should be treated as such by all involved.
     
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  16. Dorset Diver

    Dorset Diver Funster

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    I can't guarantee that this will work but you could try a polite letter explaining the reason for your delayed payment and enclosing your cheque in full and final payment.

    The system and courts are so overworked they may simply be pleased to close it and move on.

    DD (JP Retd.)
     
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  17. gus-lopez

    gus-lopez Funster

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    Thinking about it there must have been a camera there somewhere otherwise a Nip cannot be sent.
    If no camera then the law requires that you are stopped at the time.
    For a Nip to be sent there would have to be photographic evidence. Additionally the Nip has to be received within 14 days of the offence.
    If the op left the UK after 14 days from the date of alleged offence & the Nip hadn't been received by then then he has the right to it being thrown out as he has irrefutable evidence of his departure.

    I'd be wanting to know that it was correct first.
     
  18. PhilandMena

    PhilandMena Funster

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    In my home town there are many zones that are restricted to 20 mph and these are well signposted. However, it is an advisory speed limit and the legal enforceable speed limit is 30 mph. This is why I believe it is worth checking out.
    Unfortunitly, our police are not always 100% right when they issue speeding fines.
     
  19. CWH

    CWH Funster Life Member

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    Sorry to highjack your thread @normanandsue , but I found this 20 mph thing interesting and important, and it took quite a bit of finding!

    Been researching this since your post. The sum of my internetting boils down to this (and is open to criticism of course!):
    • Both zones and limits are legally enforceable, however they are not necessarily practically enforceable (due to staff resources). Zones are designed to be self-enforcing as far as possible through the use of traffic-calming measures; however persistent offenders should be prosecuted.
    • ACPO initially instructed officers NOT to enforce 20 mph limits (of whichever type), in favour of education, road design etc being used to reduce speeds in these areas. However this has changed and in 2013 ACPO were set to introduce a crack-down.
    • Both zones and limits require the same red-circle signage, with zones additionally stating ZONE which means that the traffic-calming measures within the zone do not have to be additionally signed and lit, as they do within an 'old-fashioned' limited area.
    http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/speed/20mph-zones-and-limits/
    http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/2709.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/10323354/Police-ready-to-get-tough-on-20mph-limits.html
    http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Motorc...cket-Bristol/story-27758797-detail/story.html

    This from DfT, especially useful for cyclists
    http://www.20splentyforus.org.uk/UsefulReports/Dft_TAL-09-99.pdf

    "In 1999, the law was changed by the Road Traffic Regulation Act (Amendment) Order 1999, which gave Highways Authorities more flexibility so they no longer had to apply for permission to introduce a zone. The updated legislation made two distinct types of 20mph speed limit possible:
    20mph limits, which consist of just a speed limit change to 20mph which is indicated by the speed limit (and repeater) signs, and
    20mph zones, which were designed to be “self-enforcing” due to the traffic calming measures that were introduced along with the change in the speed limit.
    The Department for Transport’s current guidance is set out in DfT Circular 01/2006 which encourages and supports Local Authorities to implement 20 mph limits and zones in situations where there is a particular risk to vulnerable road users5 . The guidance sets out that the purpose of 20 mph areas is to create conditions in which drivers naturally drive at around 20 mph as a result of traffic calming measures or the general nature of the location.
    It, therefore, suggests that 20mph limits are appropriate for roads where average speeds are already low (below 24mph) or along with traffic calming measures. Ultimately the Local Authority is responsible for deciding which of these was the most appropriate."
    http://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/drivers/20-mph-zone-factsheet.pdf
     
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  20. Abacist

    Abacist Funster

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    24mph seems very harsh as the normal procedure is limit + 10% +2 = 24mph which has not been exceeded. I would have expected 25mph to be fined or prosecuted but not 24mph.
     
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