SOG toilet emptying... bio-hazard ? (1 Viewer)

[Wildbill]

the best way to protect your kids

 

[Tootles]

For the paltry sum of £7.00, you can dispense with all SOG, chemicals, and other contrivances, in perfect safety. I can personally recommend this product, having worn one many times, and can conform that I have never been affected by a nerve agent.

Broken Link Removed

 

[Snowbird]

For the paltry sum of £7.00, you can dispense with all SOG, chemicals, and other contrivances, in perfect safety. I can personally recommend this product, having worn one many times, and can conform that I have never been affected by a nerve agent.

Broken Link Removed

Have been looking for one of those for ages for when Smudger wants his black tank emptying.

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[Tootles]

Have been looking for one of those for ages for when Smudger wants his black tank emptying.

Right Dave, and a snip at under 7 quid!!!

 

[DBK]

Yes , all correct, and some people even use it in sex games.. yuck

Sorry.. Not convinced there is no risk..
IMO .. [you]untreated [/you]waste in a cassette must be considered hazardous .. and handled accordingly .. washing fluid only masks the smell.

I agree, I don't try and come into contact with it but it isn't deadly assuming what is in there came from you and your family. Full IPE of the sort used in hospitals when someone has bubonic plague or whatever just isn't necessary. I don't wear gloves, just wash my hands afterwards. There is no airborne hazard worth bothering about either. You would probably be at greater risk and still negligible standing downwind of a typical sewage treatment works. The bugs in there are all good natural things. They may smell a bit but you won't die from touching them.

 

[scotjimland]

Full IPE of the sort used in hospitals when someone has bubonic plague or whatever just isn't necessary. I don't wear gloves, just wash my hands afterwards

Of course not, that would just be silly.. and yes, a good hygiene routine is just common sense..

the main point of my argument was that toilet waste treated with proper toilet fluid is a lower risk, in fact a negligible risk , to one that isn't.. ie from a SOG ..

I think SOGs are a Marmite product, and what they discharge also looks like Marmite ..

shame it doesn't smell like it

I've decided.. I'll stick with the big bad ass chemicals..

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[golly]

After all the bedpans etc. I have emptied over the past 40 years, I think I'm immune . However, I've not broken the habit of using disposable gloves. I use chemicals in the cassette, use gloves for emptying and wash and use hand gel afterwards.

 

[Jim]

The chemicals are probably more dangerous than the poo

 

[scotjimland]

The chemicals are probably more dangerous than the poo

could be right Jim.. but I'll take my chances.. better the devil you know

me and Aqua Kem are old buddies ...

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[dabhand]

Well there's plenty of sh*t spouted on here and the majority seem to have survived so I guess I'll just keep ladling it out wherever and blame the dog!

 

[Gaston aires]

I was thinking of installing a SOG In my new van.. then it occurred to me.. do SOG toilets, (or indeed those that only have a washing liquid instead of a proprietary toilet chemical) , present a bio-hazard to those emptying them?

Does anyone take precautions.. ie .. use disposable cloves, mask and or goggles when emptying them? I've certainly never seen anyone doing that.. but there must be some risk from splashes or droplets in the air getting onto your hands, clothing or being inhaled..

I know SOGs are popular and their users sing their praises.. and I can see the benefit of having the gasses expelled outside.. but if you also need to use toilet fluids to be safe, frankly I see little benefit.


What do you think ?

Do you

a) Use a SOG without chemicals
b) Use a SOG with toilet chemicals
c) Don't use a SOG

I have a SOG system. Seeing your post and the feedback I decided to contact SOG.
They replied very quickly and said " There is no need for any Chemicals and they will prevent the system from working properly.
So NO more chemicals for me.
Save the planet !
Phil

 

[GJH]

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the active ingredients in bio washing liquid and the various chemicals sold for cassette usage. I had a quick glance at a Formil bottle this morning and it does list ingredients but a sample bottle of Elsan Organic I was given doesn't have such a list.

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[Wildbill]

Another very closely followed and subscribed s@##t thread why is sh##t such a emotive subject.
bill

 

[scotjimland]

It would be interesting to see a comparison of the active ingredients in bio washing liquid and the various chemicals sold for cassette usage. I had a quick glance at a Formil bottle this morning and it does list ingredients but a sample bottle of Elsan Organic I was given doesn't have such a list.

Had a search Graham and nothing on the Elsan website.. no doubt you also looked.. so I then searched for a COSHH safety data sheet without success , then found this site with a little info .. my red highlight.. so have to conclude it doesn't contain any harmful chemicals..

http://inspectapedia.com/hazmat/MSDS_List.htm
MSDS for Septic Tank & RV Holding Tank Chemicals, Additives, Products

• Link Removed, provides a wide range of camping equipment including Coleman Holding Tank Deodorant Products & Coleman Portable Flush Toilets [Instruction Manual] - web search 08/27/2010, original source: Link Removed
• Elsan Limited, Bellbrook Park, Uckfield, East Sussex TN22 1QF, England. Telephone: +44 (0) 1825 748200. The company produces chemical toilet sanitation and hygiene products for caravanning, camping and boating. Quoting from the company's website: web search 08/27/2010, original source Link Removed
  While Elsan Blue toilet fluid exceeds British and European Standards BS:EN 2893:2005, no other brand even claims to comply with them.
  ... because it is biodegradable and free from harsh chemicals, [Elsan organic toilet fluid] can be safely emptied into a septic tank.
  Technical data requested by email to Elsan: 8/27/2010 - DF
• Marykate Heads Up holding tank deodorant [MSDS], web search 08/27/2010, original source for the Marykate Heads Up deodorant MSDS
  Link Removed
  Marykate products appear to be produced by Link Removed,
• Link Removed, 7101 Jackson Road, Ann Arbor, MI 48103, Tel: 1-800-543-1219, Mailing Address: P.O. Box 1285, Ann Arbor, MI 48106 web search 08/27/2010, original source: Link Removed
  /AquaKemLiquidTossInsandDri/tabid/122/Default.aspx Quoting from the company's website:
  [Aqua-Kem Products are] 100% biodegradable liquid and environmentally safe when disposed of properly
• Also see Septic & Holding/RV Tank/Toilet Chemicals MSDS

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

the best way to protect your kids
View attachment 46407

I agree Bill!

This is an actual picture of our twins, now 18, playing out down the bottom of what was , our huge back garden at the old house.
Ralph used to store his building gear there.
I'd had my back turned two minutes , whilst weeding.
I've always let the kids get grubby, but on this occasion they were covered. Isabel on the left had even taken her wellies off ! Her socks were white and pink !
Look at both of their faces and hair.
I love the picture. It's on my fireplace.

We are putting a sog in the new R&B PVC.

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[scotjimland]

We are putting a dog in the new R&B PVC.

that's an odd fixture

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

that's an odd fixture

Gosh you were quick of the ball .
Spell check , I'd edited it before you even posted your reply..

 

[scotjimland]

Gosh you were quick of the ball .
Spell check , I'd edited it before you even posted your reply..

yeah.. damn predictive text again

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[Wildbill]

I agree Bill!

This is an actual picture of our twins, now 18, playing out down the bottom of what was , our huge back garden at the old house.
Ralph used to store his building gear there.
I'd had my back turned two minutes , whilst weeding.
I've always let the kids get grubby, but on this occasion they were covered. Isabel on the left had even taken her wellies off ! Her socks were white and pink !
Look at both of their faces and hair.
I love the picture. It's on my fireplace. View attachment 46429
We are putting a sog in the new R&B PVC.

absolutely brill the wee man was out playing foot ball yesterday and was just a walking mud blob

 

[frogijock]

Probably more at risk from touching the handle on the door of a public toilet or handling cash

 

[Jaws]

I do have a sog but still use blue.. The reason ?
Simples..
I do not like the smell when dumping.. No other reason.
Gave up using gloves when Richard ( The Scotties ) pointed out that your skin does not leak in EITHER direction.. Will not let stuff in or out !!

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[GJH]

Had a search Graham and nothing on the Elsan website.. no doubt you also looked.. so I then searched for a COSHH safety data sheet without success , then found this site with a little info .. my red highlight.. so have to conclude it doesn't contain any harmful chemicals..

Thanks Jim, I hadn't got round to looking yet. I was really interested in seeing whether there is actually any difference between the active ingredients significant enough to make Elsan more effective than Formil. After extensive use of both my conclusion is that the real difference is the purple die in the Elsan stuff which disguises the contents a bit

 

[TheCaller]

There was an interesting project with 'high health status' pig production back in, I think, the seventies.

It was well known that growth rates & feed conversion ratios were affected by low level infection in pig herds. This could be treated by incorporating antibiotics in their feed, but for all the reasons most are familiar with, this isn't a good idea long term because of the build up of antibiotic resistance.

So they thought that they would try & stop the infection being present in the first place. Piglets were born by caesarean section in sterile conditions to give a starter pool of pigs with no bacterial infection. They were then kept in high hygiene conditions. No visitors allowed on site, every member of staff had to shower & change clothes on the way in, food carefully checked & so on.

It worked while it lasted - the growth rates & food conversion ratios improved as expected. But the cost of maintaining the isolation was high & the consequence of breakdown catastrophic - if ever the pigs got sick, they got really sick, as they had never built up any resistance.

Pigs denied access to their own dung also suffer higher levels of infection. Quite apart from the other welfare issues, this was one of the drawbacks of the crate housing system. When cleaning out, one shovel full needed to be directed forwards to allow the pig to root about in it.

Humans in the western world have no need for high growth rates nor good food conversion - quite the reverse. Anyone able to eat as much food as they like just for the pleasure of eating it, while not putting on weight, counts themselves fortunate. You are much healthier in the long run if your body is fighting a continual low level attack against disease. So long as you are not seriously weakened, you are then much better prepared to fight off the occasional more aggressive infection.

Pigs are the closest non-primate animal to humans. What works for pigs pretty much goes for people. While not suggesting that you should pour the stuff over your foot (as a certain member did recently), an occasional splash might even be good for you! Normal hand washing hygiene should be fine - just stop biting your nails.

 

[icantremember]

purple die in the Elsan stuff which disguises the contents a bit

Oh yes, purple poo .... still think I prefer the original nice shade of brown!

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[scotjimland]

What works for pigs pretty much goes for people. While not suggesting that you should pour the stuff over your foot (as a certain member did recently), an occasional splash might even be good for you!

So.. what you are saying here is that people in 'developing' countries who live in shit conditions with no sanitation and use gutters for sewage are likely to be healthier. ?

The first thing that happens when people are put in refugee camps is disease due to poor sanitation facilities..

 

[Jim]

I do have a sog but still use blue.. The reason ?
Simples..
I do not like the smell when dumping..

Might that have something to do with this

Me.. I am a classic product of the 50's and 60's..
My favourite foods are:
Corned beef
Spam
Fish fingers
Tinned peas
!

 

[TheCaller]

• While Elsan Blue toilet fluid exceeds British and European Standards BS:EN 2893:2005, no other brand even claims to comply with them.
  ... because it is biodegradable and free from harsh chemicals, [Elsan organic toilet fluid] can be safely emptied into a septic tank.

I think that quote relates to two different products.

Elsan Blue meets the standards for antibacterial action because, according to the label on the bottle, it still contains formaldehyde. I checked when at the Lincoln show.

Elsan organic toilet fluid is different altogether & doesn't contain formaldehyde.

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[DBK]

So.. what you are saying here is that people in 'developing' countries who live in shit conditions with no sanitation and use gutters for sewage are likely to be healthier. ?

The first thing that happens when people are put in refugee camps is disease due to poor sanitation facilities..

That's a completely different thing as I tried to suggest earlier. If someone has a disease then it can pass on in their faeces and if it gets into the drinking water bingo - this was how the spread cholera was discovered IIRC - "nightsoil" polluting a water pump in London.

If the stuff in your cassette comes from your family and no one has something really unpleasant (and you would know if they have had) then you won't be killed off because a splash of something brown or yellow gets on your skin.

Stop worrying! I suspect the Elsan biological stuff doesn't kill off all the bugs either otherwise you couldn't put it down a septic tank.

Great thread though. One of the most satisfying things I have found in home DIY over the years is unblocking a sewer pipe - that suck and gloop sound as it all finally shoots off down the pipe takes a lot of beating!

Hope no one is eating anything at the moment!

 

[TheCaller]

So.. what you are saying here is that people in 'developing' countries who live in shit conditions with no sanitation and use gutters for sewage are likely to be healthier. ?

The first thing that happens when people are put in refugee camps is disease due to poor sanitation facilities..

No, that's not what I'm saying, as I suspect you know full well.

Occasional, low level challenges to the immune system to let it build up resistance is one thing and can be beneficial. Sudden exposure to high levels of contamination as can occur in refugee camps is quite another.

However, I would suggest that a healthy person who has had previous low level exposure to the prevailing sanitary conditions of the country concerned would stand a better chance in the camp than either a person already in poor health & nutrition status (typical refugee) or someone arriving from a high health environment.

EDIT: to change emphasis.

 

[GJH]

I think that quote relates to two different products.

Elsan Blue meets the standards for antibacterial action because, according to the label on the bottle, it still contains formaldehyde. I checked when at the Lincoln show.

Elsan organic toilet fluid is different altogether & doesn't contain formaldehyde.

Good point. Elsan, though, make similar claims for both Blue and Organic products:

Elsan Blue
It is essential that a toilet fluid should kill harmful bacteria and germs to prevent them from multiplying.
Elsan Blue's powerful anti-bacterial formula kills them on contact whilst eliminating unpleasant odours.

Elsan Blue and Double Blue are the only fluids you can buy that exceed British Standards. That’s why Elsan toilet fluids are chosen by caravanners, and boating and camping enthusiasts alike.

Elsan Blue is pleasantly fragranced, non-staining and suitable for all chemical toilets and cassettes.

Elsan Double Blue
Double Blue is double concentrated so whilst it gives exactly the same unbeatable anti-bacterial performance as Elsan Blue, it provides twice the doses making it especially good value.

And because it is concentrated, it also takes up less valuable storage space. Elsan Double Blue is also pleasantly fragranced, non-staining and suitable for all chemical toilets and cassettes.

A technological breakthrough

New Elsan Organic toilet fluid has been developed with brand new biological technology which works in a completely different way to conventional toilet fluids.

No chemical smell

By dissolving waste and removing odours naturally, the chemical smell that has long been associated with caravan toilets has at last been eliminated ...and replaced with a delightful mild fragrance.

It’s a toilet rinse too

Moreover, Elsan Organic can be used in both flush and waste tanks which makes things so much more convenient.

Natural odour control

Because it is environmentally safe and free from harsh chemicals, waste can be emptied into a septic tank. Not only will Organic make your toilet a better place, but you’ll be doing your bit for the environment too.

Still doesn't list the contents of the Organic so I can compare it to Formil though

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