Smart Car catches fire (1 Viewer)

[Locksmith]

Can't believe my ear's

4.41pm today I was taking Mandy to Doctors to get prescription’s etc and my mobile phone rang coming over on the hands free in my old Locksmiths van and a very nice sounding lady said her name which I missed but she claimed to be from a company who I recognised as Armitages insurance company. She asked if I had any witnesses and their details I said witnesses to the fire or Wayne saying what the fault was, she straight away said Wayne said nothing and what I had said was not true. I said “I beg your pardon” she said it was untrue and he hadn’t said anything and I have no witnesses. I take it she meant witnesses to what Wayne said but she kept talking over me saying I have no witnesses then I raised my voice and said I have witnesses you are not listening to me, I hope you are recording this as your not listening. I asked for her name and she said I’m not repeating it so you can plaster it over the internet, she then said I should be careful as I could be taken to court for slander, I said fine take me to court and I will swear in a court of law along with my witnesses, she said I was calling for this information to try and speed the process up for you ! and don’t raise your voice to me, I said ”you don’t call me a liar and expect me to keep calm and I have to raise my voice because you keep talking over me, she said she didn’t call me a liar, her saying all what I had said was untrue, in my books is the same thing.
Mandy heard it all so she is now aware of all that has been going on, I had kept it away from her.
I now believe that and feel sorry for Wayne and Armitages and think he was going to be honourable then this person came along. I can see now why the sudden change of attitude from them.
This lady’s threat of a slander case does not faze me as I have said everything as I heard and saw. If she called me to make me angry she certainly has, but surely there my witnesses for my insurance company.
In my life have never heard a professional person speak to anybody in such and unprofessional manner. Mandy say’s she has tried to scare you but she has done the opposite.

 

[olley]

short answer, I don't know Ian, I haven't read the Facts or O&A threads.. Jim and Dave may have better lawyers

Did O&A give a reason or did the thread just disappear ?

No it just disappeared with no explanation, but that's happened in the past, threads get pulled with no explanation. I guess admitting that the advertiser has put pressure on is not something they want to admit.

Ian

 

[Geo]

Well the battle continues
I read from a previous post that your own insurance company seems fully aware of the situation,
Are you claiming through them, or are you working on a settlement your self.
Geo

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[hilldweller]

As I said earlier.....

On TV tonight a classic case of if it can happen it will.

Link Removed

 

[jhorsf]

Locksmith I am so sorry Mandy found out like this they have a wallet for a heart :Angry:it would seem the power of the internet is in the little mans hands sometimes

 

[Locksmith]

I have been warned off and told to keep quiet, I want everyone to see and I also want an apology from this person, I had several from Wayne and now believe the insurance company is at fault and Armitages were going to be honorable.
She should not be saying what I have said is untrue, It was my discussion with them last Friday when they said Armitages had not made an admission's that made me post this story in the first place. I do not like being called a liar, even a barrister in court wouldn't call me a liar. I'm the injured party here.
I'm have emailed Watchdog all my posting's and I will give my story, this is only the beging

Out & about live have pulled my thread

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[jhorsf]

It does not really matter what the insurance compant told them to say they know the truth and are hiding behind the insurance company so do not feel sorry for them

 

[Larrynwin]

Just because you are insured it does not mean that the insurers have to be involved.
Any individual or company can agree his own settlement at his own risk.

 

[Locksmith]

Brokers

I have discovered that it was not the insurance company who contacted me but the insurance brokers. My legal beagle told me Insurance companies tend to get a lot of flack which is sometimes not deserved. I am confident that you would not have had such an approach from an insurance company which is why I was suspicious about the contact.

He has also said I might like to contact the Financial Services Authority and report them.

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[rainbow chasers]

As far as slander goes, as long as you are posting objective, factual comments of events then I cannot see how they could do much about it - so long as you are careful not me make any personal judgements, or accusations - just present the facts as they stand and the reader will judge as they see it.

It protects you, the forum and no forum will wipe your posts if they are objective statements of fact. So far, that has been done, so cannot see an issue as far as slander goes.

Regarding being contacted by a broker - very unusual. I would have thought it would be the insurer or the insurers legal team trying to ply information from you regarding witnesses, that your insurer may be keeping quiet about, for the mean time. Alot of large companies or legal teams will try to bully their way through - seen it many times before. Just keep your cool and stay one step ahead. Intimidation is a common tool with the big boys - even seen them trying to bully solicitors before!

Get your witness statements, affadavits or whatever you wish, and pass those copies to your insurers/solicitor - if you are contacted, you tell them that if they wish for any information, they should write to either your insurers, or your solicitor - whoever you are using.

Never get into telephone conversations - they are trying to make you slip up and say something that is not true, or try to put doubt in your mind, which will be recorded.

I do find it strange that a broker would call you - they are just a reseller, after all! They sell the policy, take a fee - the rest is all down to the insurer (or underwriter)

Keep proof of everything, get everything in writing and you will be fine!:thumb:

 

[JJ]

At the risk of being banned I would like to post this...

Saying untrue, bad things about people is Slander...

Writing them in a publication is Libel...

See you all later when the ban has been lifted...

JJ

PS. As I understand it, if someone sues you for slander/libel two worrying things are in place.

Firstly, it is for you to prove what you wrote/said was "fair comment" and not the other way around...

And secondly, the trials are always in front of a jury which can be rather dodgy in these cases...

PPS. A friend and I were sued for libel once and even though we were totally right in what had been written, we were advised to settle out of court because we were told the jury could easily find against us despite the evidence we could produce to back up the article.

 

[Locksmith]

At the risk of being banned I would like to post this...

Saying untrue, bad things about people is Slander...

Writing them in a publication is Libel...

I agree and this is why I have confidently said what I have.
Thanks for your message,
One question, why would you be banned?

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[Jim]

One question, why would you be banned?

I've no idea why JJ thought/said that either

 

[Geo]

Neither have I Jim
Ban Him:thumb:

 

[rainbow chasers]

JJ - you are just stating correct and relevent facts:thumb:

Hardly banning material. I think I can count banned members on one hand, maybe, though I wouldn't put money on it! Jim doesn't go around banning people unless there is a very good reason to - he might clip an ear now and again when someone steps over the line, but that is his job.

The libel cases are a game of chicken, who has the biggest...wallet in most cases, and proving that the allegations are true, or believed to be true is on the poster.

So far, the OP has not mentioned the name of the Insurers - so this is not pointing at one company in particular. This should be continued in this anon way - and we are not interested in who underwrites the company anyway.

The Original suppliers' name has been mentioned, but not in a deflamatory way - in fact a later post even sympathised with the companys inability to do anything for legal reasons. So there are no real grounds there.

If the post was not in that vane and posed a danger to the forum, or poster, Jim would have said and/or locked it.

As it stands, the facts are there as stated, names removed - no-one can point a finger at any party, or defame any individual or company.

Let's just hope the companies involved take the opportunity to turn a negative result into a positive result!:thumb:

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[Terry]

Hi Locksmith,If they call you again and you are driving etc, just ask them to call you back at a time when you have the facility to either record them or make notes,obtaining the time and person you are speaking to with any reference/id numbers:thumbo not just take say Paul etc as they can deny having anybody of that name Get there name etc, before you start the conversation :thumb:
As to Armatidges this is already hurting there businesses because I for one will remember this and would not recommend them to anyone be it for A frames or trailers
terry

 

[Locksmith]

It really seem's to me that the good rapport that I had with Armitages would have carried on if the insurance company had not destroyed our relationship. I had already discussed with Wayne that I needed to sort things out quickly and have them fit another A frame when the car get's replaced. although it was one the most frightening things ever to happen to me and my son, I had excepted that simply a mistake had been made. I had also looked far and wide before I had them do the work and through reputation they were the best for this type of A frame.

 

[Locksmith]

Hi Locksmith,If they call you again and you are driving etc, just ask them to call you back at a time when you have the facility to either record them or make notes,obtaining the time and person you are speaking to with any reference/id numbers:thumbo not just take say Paul etc as they can deny having anybody of that name Get there name etc, before you start the conversation :thumb:
As to Armatidges this is already hurting there businesses because I for one will remember this and would not recommend them to anyone be it for A frames or trailers
terry

I doubt very much if they will call me again. I made a complaint against them.

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[Locksmith]

Originally Posted by Tony Lee
It seems as if the good rapport was largely illusory - pretty much as insubstantial as the promises of a courtesy car and the assurances and apologies that it was all their fault - and perhaps just designed to keep you nice and quiet and compliant. I don't know whether you have a couple of spare cars tucked away in the back of the garage for emergencies, but without a car to use for day to day errands, it must be a pain in the ... to have to get out the fairly large MH and negotiate all the narrow roads, traffic and height barriers just to get a loaf of bread.
All Armitages have to do to get themselves at least partly out of the ever-deepening morass they have bungled their way into is to help you out a little bit. What would a courtesy car cost them for a few weeks? After tax, two thirds of three quarters of SFA.


My transport now is my van, I had purchased the Smart car for many reasons (1) to make the regular trips to the hospital with Mandy (2) because of it's low running cost's as I'm Mandy's carer and money is in short supply (3) because it would make life much easier when I take Mandy away in the motorhome (4) I used most my saving to buy this little car when I did because it was the bargain of the century with just 1200 miles on it's new engine and in immaculate order, I would had to have saved a while longer to find another and I was left with just enough money to have the A Frame fitted.

Mandy wants me to get another Smart eventually; the two weeks we had the car with it's 70 + mpg was brilliant and she loved that we could afford to take regular summer evening drives in the country with the hood down.

So yes this car is very much missed

 

[Locksmith]

The Armitage’s Smart Car Fire. Our reply.
While in no way attempting to make light of Locksmith’s disaster, it is very much a one-off incident. We will not stand in the way of a fair outcome in any way whatsoever. We are anxious to have this matter resolved and are in constant touch with our insurers to ensure that proper progress is made.
Eric Armitage

................mmm ??

 

[sedge]

Jeez - I feel sorry for everybody here - except the Brokers, I must add.

Firstly Locksmith of course as he is the one with the loss - and it's never a vehicle you were wanting to see the back of really so the fire was a bit of a bonus, is it? It's inconvenient at the very best of times but in his particular circumstances it's shattering. Poor ole Locksmith.

Secondly Wayne at Armitages. If he did say what has been reported, he said what he said and he can't take that back. Yes we most definitely are told 'Never admit liability' but under the circs, all that instruction and knowledge goes straight out of the window - eg you skid on black ice - you know damn well you aren't sposed to panic but ........

So he has to explain that to Mr Armitage, who is prolly very nice, but it could be Wayne's job on the line couldn't it? Poor ole Wayne.

Thirdly Mr Armitage. He has to deal via his Brokers who have made the situation between him and his customer far worse than it was, but he is pretty much forced to still deal via them - for this claim anyway - whatever he thinks of them and whatever he does in future. He also has to try and appease his customer and try and keep him on 'hold' whilst the insurer with whom he has no direct contact, gets on with their job. If the Brokers are numpties entirely, and not just this one person - that makes things terribly terribly difficult for them. Plus Mr A knows he is currently not getting good publicity for his business which he has spent years and God knows how much money establishing. (Where are all the satisfied customers backing you up just when you need them most? Sitting at home, being satisfied ..... LOL) Poor ole Mr Armitage.

Bet come Monday neither of them two really want to get out of bed .......

Lastly I feel sorry for the insurers. Bet it isn't Wayne who completes the claim form, firms employ office personnel to deal with such things. And then that goes via the Brokers to the insurers, perhaps with a covering letter giving more details and who knows at this stage what they said? Perhaps they phoned it in to the insurers - ditto. So the guys who are actually potentially going to have to cough up for this aren't exactly getting a first-hand account of this horrible situation, are they? Poor ole insurers ........

I either worked for insurance companies or brokers for 40 years. I wouldn't do it again for a fat pig, thanks. And personally, we have had motor claims (notably a motorbike accident) where everything that could possibly go wrong, went wrong (including a close relative actually dying whilst we were on our way again from the scene but of course that had no bearing on liability) and we ended up eventually taking the TP to court, virtually unassisted by our ruddy insurers. And landed up with the judge awarding us more than what we actually asked for. So you could say I've seen it from both - in fact all - sides ...........

Locksmith, insurers will sort it out. And they'd most likely do it a lot better and quicker if it wasn't for everybody else putting their own personal oars in.

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[Locksmith]

Jeez - I feel sorry for everybody here - except the Brokers, I must add.

Firstly Locksmith of course as he is the one with the loss - and it's never a vehicle you were wanting to see the back of really so the fire was a bit of a bonus, is it? It's inconvenient at the very best of times but in his particular circumstances it's shattering. Poor ole Locksmith.

Secondly Wayne at Armitages. If he did say what has been reported, he said what he said and he can't take that back. Yes we most definitely are told 'Never admit liability' but under the circs, all that instruction and knowledge goes straight out of the window - eg you skid on black ice - you know damn well you aren't sposed to panic but ........

So he has to explain that to Mr Armitage, who is prolly very nice, but it could be Wayne's job on the line couldn't it? Poor ole Wayne.

Thirdly Mr Armitage. He has to deal via his Brokers who have made the situation between him and his customer far worse than it was, but he is pretty much forced to still deal via them - for this claim anyway - whatever he thinks of them and whatever he does in future. He also has to try and appease his customer and try and keep him on 'hold' whilst the insurer with whom he has no direct contact, gets on with their job. If the Brokers are numpties entirely, and not just this one person - that makes things terribly terribly difficult for them. Plus Mr A knows he is currently not getting good publicity for his business which he has spent years and God knows how much money establishing. (Where are all the satisfied customers backing you up just when you need them most? Sitting at home, being satisfied ..... LOL) Poor ole Mr Armitage.

Bet come Monday neither of them two really want to get out of bed .......

Lastly I feel sorry for the insurers. Bet it isn't Wayne who completes the claim form, firms employ office personnel to deal with such things. And then that goes via the Brokers to the insurers, perhaps with a covering letter giving more details and who knows at this stage what they said? Perhaps they phoned it in to the insurers - ditto. So the guys who are actually potentially going to have to cough up for this aren't exactly getting a first-hand account of this horrible situation, are they? Poor ole insurers ........

I either worked for insurance companies or brokers for 40 years. I wouldn't do it again for a fat pig, thanks. And personally, we have had motor claims (notably a motorbike accident) where everything that could possibly go wrong, went wrong (including a close relative actually dying whilst we were on our way again from the scene but of course that had no bearing on liability) and we ended up eventually taking the TP to court, virtually unassisted by our ruddy insurers. And landed up with the judge awarding us more than what we actually asked for. So you could say I've seen it from both - in fact all - sides ...........

Locksmith, insurers will sort it out. And they'd most likely do it a lot better and quicker if it wasn't for everybody else putting their own personal oars in.

I have made this next reply purely because of the above and may I thank Sedge for helping me come to this decision, I hope sedge does not mind but I post the above on the other forums also

I have thought long and Hard about what has gone by. I know fault's lay with Armitages on a possible three counts but definitely on 2 and 3 (1) the fitting (2) being told the dragging is normal and give it more Welly (3) allowing me to leave without proper checks being done that would have prevented the fire.
Armitages premises are such that you are less than a mile from the motorway putting you on the A1M very quickly. if I had not been warned by the lorry driver the lay by I stopped at would have been where I would have stopped anyway to do my checks as this was the first safe place I had seen to stop.
I feel that Wayne and Armitages have had their hands tied by the Brokers and although Wayne did make promises to me and say he thought the fault was a kinked cable nothing that Wayne said caused the fire.
The main thing here as far as I can see is (3) I was allowed to leave without the proper check being carried out after reporting the dragging, this would have saved the car and established the fault whether it be with the car or the A Frame, I was assured all was normal and relied on them the experts.
I will ask if it is possible to have these threads removed on Tuesday as I realise there are peoples jobs at stake but most of all Mandy has asked me to, since the brokers intimidating call and Mandy was made aware she has been very anxious and I worried this is taking it's toll on her health, I say Tuesday to allow those who have showed interest to know why I will ask for the threads to be removed.
This is my last posting until it's over.
Thank you all for your help and comments including the negative one's.

 

[movan]

All the best to you and Mandy. It is understandable why you want the threads removed and I hope you get satisfaction shortly. Thank you also for your help in the pms at a time when you were going through this. It was much appreciated and I shall take that into account before making any decision on the towing of the car.

Thanks again for an interesting thread. Joy

 

[Larrynwin]

Sounds like a case of "Fit for Purpose" which by law any product or service to my knowledge should be so.
This service was plainly not so !

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[david price]

Good luck and hope it gets sorted quickly.
Dave

 

[Locksmith]

Armitages

My insurance company has been fantastic. I have a replacement car and have decided to go down the line of another A Frame.?
My insurance company have tried to get information from Armitages insurers over the last month and have come up with nothing .. no information has been supplied to them .. I have a Smart car replacement, I'm unable to have another A Frame fitted as I used all my money on the last fit with Armitages.
Although I have another car I'm around £2100.00 out of pocket the bulk of that being the Armitages fitting cost's, with no way of getting that back till my insurance can get a response from them.

 

[slobadoberbob]

i have sat on the side lines

My suggestion is you take legal proceedings in the County Court seeking A) the cost of the installation, B) the expenses in respect of the loss of any insurance excess C) the reasonable out of pocket expenses you have had, travel, letters, phone calls, hire of car or other transport used like buses or train D) seek damages to be assessed by the court. If you can afford it hire a solicitor his legal costs are added to the claim as are the issue costs.

I have found over the years that people attention is more focused to an issue once a summons has arrived on there desk. The company will then be on to there insurance company to get it resolved. I will not go into the law on this as it is complicated, but I will say you do have a case.

But stop waiting for your insurance company to do something. You have the legal right to recover your loss. There are plenty of no win no fee solicitors about if you cannot fund the matter.

But to be honest I would advise you to issue proceedings in the Small claims court and go for the maximum amount you are allowed to claim. i.e i.e. it up to £5,000 made up from the losses you can show and the balance to damages and interest at the current county court rate.

Write to the company give and advise them that you intend to issue proceeding unless they settle your claim.. (same as the amount you will claim in the court) give them 7 days notice of action then go and get the N1 forms and issue and pay the court fees.. remember you will add the court fees to the sum claimed. If in doubt p.m. and I will talk you through it. Very easy to do.. The courts have made the procedure simple ... you can represent yourself and the District Judge is there to see the other side do not take advantage if they employ legal representatives and you do not. The truth and documents, photos will win the day I have found. This is not rocket science and once papers are issued it is amazing how many settle out of court.

Bob:Blush:

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[moandick]

Well said, super answer and well explained, Bob - you'r not such a bad lad after all, are you?:thumb:

Dick

 

[Geo]

All those years in [STRIKE]gao[/STRIKE]l court have served you well M'Lud

 

[Locksmith]

Chris Cox

A friend has loaned me the money to have another A Frame fitted, so Mandy and I can get away, I'm going to Chris Cox. http://www.towingframes.com/
I spoke to Mr Cox on the phone and he explained everything, I told him my concerns and told him who I was, Mr Cox had read all about the problems I have had and has installed confidence in me that I will not have a problem with his product.
The A Frame is being installed tomorrow, this is the first time I have spoke with Chris Cox and unlike all the other A Frame fitter's he was the only one who didn't have a bad word to say about the others.

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