Smart Car catches fire (1 Viewer)

[Geo]

Good luck from me too..


One thing that this incedent has made glaringly obvious .... It is a lack of C&U regulations that are responsible.. It's high time this was looked at and C&U regs. introduced or have them banned outright ..

As long as they are a 'grey' area there is always going to be a risk of further accidents ... the next might be fatal.. What will it take to get them off their arse ...

Come on Jim wake up and smell the coffee
Have a look at the number of A frames in use, work out the % of failure, compare those figures with caravan incidents
Then do the same with road going cars, certified, tested every year and buried in C&U regs
look at the number of reported faults, both reliability and safety related with no action taken whatsoever by the Manfoh:
What do they say, one swallow dont make a summer:thumb:
Geo

 

[jhorsf]

I thought it was one swallow does not make a stunner

 

[scotjimland]

Come on Jim wake up and smell the coffee
Have a look at the number of A frames in use, work out the % of failure
Then do the same with road going road cars, certified, tested every year and buried in C&U regs
look at the number of reported faults, both reliability and safety related with no action taken whatsoever by the Manfoh:
What do they say, one swallow dont make a summer:thumb:
Geo

Read my previous post Geo, I agree with what you say .. but I still say it's high time C&U regs were introduced rather than constructors adapting trailer regs..

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[Geo]

As I understand you are calling for regulation, that I cant disagree with.
The latest versions of A frames have me slightly concerned, it appears as though they are now using the Manf towing eye in the design, mearly duplicating it on the other side of the vehicle
Now any Manf will tell you that the built towing eye is for emergency use only
Geo

 

[Locksmith]

good luck fella, hope you get the result you need:thumb:

Thank you,I have been waiting for Barclays and Insurance company etc. As I'm at home as you know ( My terminally ill Wife(Mandy's) Carer) I have to much time to sit staring at the phone but I have been waiting since 9.30 for two call backs but nothing ............ dum de dum de dum

 

[scotjimland]

As I understand you are calling for regulation, that I cant disagree with.
The latest versions of A frames have me slightly concerned, it appears as though they are now using the Manf towing eye in the design, mearly duplicating it on the other side of the vehicle
Now any Manf will tell you that the built towing eye is for emergency use only
Geo

Yes , that's exactly my point Geo.. as I recall the last failure I read about was a towing eye bolt breaking.. as you say, towing eyes are not designed as a permanent towing point with lateral forces .. their intended purpose is for tying the car down whilst being transported by ship and road, or for an emergency tow with a single solid bar which puts no lateral forces on the bolt.

Another issue is braking .. Now it seems to me that if a 750kg MAM trailer does not require brakes why should a car of the same or less kerb weight require them to work? I say kerb weight because the toad will not be at it's MAM weight whilst being towed .. ie with three passengers and driver, but to comply with trailer regs the brakes must work which is IMO quite frankly a nonsense. Working brakes should only be required on cars heavier than 750kg.kerb weight.

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[Locksmith]

The Armitage’s Smart Car Fire. Our reply.

Firstly, we at Armitage’s Trailers and Towbars are mortified that this has happened and that our customer should have undergone such a frightening experience. In respect of admitting liability, we must follow the instructions of our insurers and abide by the results of official investigations.

Secondly the suggestion by a business rival that Armitage’s have been beset by a-frame cars catching fire is nothing short of a lie and is a bare-faced attempt to make matters worse for us and steal our customers. On the very few occasions where there have been minor problems we have made amends immediately, with no quibbles and no splitting hairs to wriggle out of our responsibilities.

Since we returned to the a-frame market in 2008 as the attitude of the authorities to a-frame towing changed for the better, we have manufactured and fitted well over 500 a-frames. Included in this number is an average of at least one a week to Smart cars and we have NEVER before had a customer’s car burst into flames.

While in no way attempting to make light of Locksmith’s disaster, it is very much a one-off incident. We will not stand in the way of a fair outcome in any way whatsoever. We are anxious to have this matter resolved and are in constant touch with our insurers to ensure that proper progress is made.

Wayne, the manager, has made no attempt to avoid Locksmith. We have been particularly busy in these past few weeks which have been shortened by bank holidays. Much time has been taken up trying to sort out this situation as speedily as possible.

Eric Armitage

 

[Locksmith]

The Armitage’s Smart Car Fire. Our reply.

Firstly, we at Armitage’s Trailers and Towbars are mortified that this has happened and that our customer should have undergone such a frightening experience. In respect of admitting liability, we must follow the instructions of our insurers and abide by the results of official investigations.

Secondly the suggestion by a business rival that Armitage’s have been beset by a-frame cars catching fire is nothing short of a lie and is a bare-faced attempt to make matters worse for us and steal our customers. On the very few occasions where there have been minor problems we have made amends immediately, with no quibbles and no splitting hairs to wriggle out of our responsibilities.

Since we returned to the a-frame market in 2008 as the attitude of the authorities to a-frame towing changed for the better, we have manufactured and fitted well over 500 a-frames. Included in this number is an average of at least one a week to Smart cars and we have NEVER before had a customer’s car burst into flames.

While in no way attempting to make light of Locksmith’s disaster, it is very much a one-off incident. We will not stand in the way of a fair outcome in any way whatsoever. We are anxious to have this matter resolved and are in constant touch with our insurers to ensure that proper progress is made.

Wayne, the manager, has made no attempt to avoid Locksmith. We have been particularly busy in these past few weeks which have been shortened by bank holidays. Much time has been taken up trying to sort out this situation as speedily as possible.

Eric Armitage

The Fact is Wayne quite rightly kept saying sorry and that there was a kinked cable and that's what he believes was the problem. He also mentioned a courtesy car and he would call me.. ?????
I was led to believe Armitages were going to sort the problem out and was asked to send receipts etc. to you, this I did.
I believe Wayne was being honest, but has now been told to shut up.
Wayne also thanked me for my understanding, I was being civil and understanding because he had admitted a mistake and seemed very honorable that he was going to put it right.
But now I feel all the doors have been shut in my face and no answers, only to be told your insurance is sorting it out.
I have driven that car the two weeks I've owned it before the fire approximately 700 miles with out a hiccup, in fact the day before I brought the car to you I emailed the previous owner who I purchased the car from to say how delighted I was with it.
The fact is it had only done 2000 miles on a new engine. fitted by Smarts R Us of Nottingham and been serviced is proof enough that the car was in perfect order the fault is with you and you should be showing some loyalty to your customers.
I was supposed to go away on Holiday tomorrow and I'm very bitter that Wayne knows this, I think that's why there was a mention of a courtesy car.
It's a shame as you are in constant contact with your insurers they are not with mine!
I'm quite amazed that you should post on here but I'm impressed also as you can show customers past and future how Armitages do things.

Day 11 Armitages get in contact via Motorhome Forum

I lost my temper a bit with my reply. I have got to take Mandy for her Scan today. we were going away tomorrow after the hospital trip, this was why we had the A frame fitted when we did.

Never mind

 

[haganap]

The Armitage’s Smart Car Fire. Our reply.

In respect of admitting liability, we must follow the instructions of our insurers and abide by the results of official investigations.

Without wanting to sound big headed, I refer to my earlier posts to your problem.

Im no expert, but when I was in business in the 90s, I remember one of my employees causing serious damage to someone's property. Both he and I knew he had done it, both he and I were apologetic beyond belief. But,
when I sent all the stuff through to the insurance company, they informed me that my company was to have no further contact with the person and they would pursue the matter on my behalf. That was not my understanding of why I bothered paying so much for liability insurance, it led to terrible threats from the person damaged both verbal and physical.

Insurance = why bother.

Keep at it though Locksmith, I know in the scheme of things, from your posts you will have more on your mind. But don't let it rest.

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[rainbow chasers]

Firstly, as already said - he will be advised not to enter into conversation with you. This is because he may inadvertently say or offer something that will be detrimental to the insurers defence. Standard proceadure.

He may state no other cars have ever caught fire, and by stating such may be a true statement. Other owners stated having problems with the braking system, which the statement neatly side steps. Clarification on what was being stated is needed - I have no idea what has been said to him, or where so cannot really comment - but from what I have read, it is more braking system issues than actual fires.

Regarding stopping to check when towing ANYTHING - YES! YES! YES!

You cannot engineer a way out of gravity and motion. It does not matter if the car is an a-frame, on a trailer, a breakdown truck or anything else. Cars bounce on their suspension and things are vibrated loose.

1. Check first up to 10 miles/10 minutes.
2. Check after one hour/60 miles
3. Every 2 hours/100 miles after this.

This is standard vehicle transport proceadure - you may have straps rattle loose, you may have a puncture, or something may have failed. Check it! You knopw the states of the roads, the ruts on the motorways, the potholes on the local roads....lots of opportunity here. If on motorways/dual carriageways, stop at the next services/lay by and check - only takes a few minutes!

Scotlandjim - A toad, despite being under the require weight for brakes - has them fitted, so they must work!! (RTA) Which is why there was always so much discussion over Dollies! Any vehicle being towed that has brakes fitted, they must be operational.

 

[Jim]

If only that were true, in my experience, even when there is clearly an innocent party, many insurance companies are not interested in fighting your corner, that costs real money; too often insurance companies don't chase each other, they both cop out at 50-50.

This is going to go just the way I thought, it'll be 50-50 . Locksmith whatever happens, whether you are at fault or not, prepare yourself for a big hike in premiums

 

[Geo]

Their main failure in my opinion for what its worth
Is failing to road test the vehicle after completion themselvesoh:
Asking the customer to test drive round their car park is simply not on and pretty poor/bad practice, they would/should as a matter of best practice have a suitable towing vehicle and road test it to their own satisfaction before hand over
This scenerio was aviodable Royal Wedding and Bank Holliday aside
There is the Kinked cable to concider, what liabiliy the cable manf has also, if any to Armatidge
50/50?????? Not in my lifetime:Sad:
Geo

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[scotjimland]

Scotlandjim - A toad, despite being under the require weight for brakes - has them fitted, so they must work!! (RTA) Which is why there was always so much discussion over Dollies! Any vehicle being towed that has brakes fitted, they must be operational.

I am very aware of that ... Please re read my post !

I said....

but to comply with trailer regs the brakes must work

 

[Terry]

Only my opinion-If Armitage’s want to continue in business/promote it why not do the decent thing and replace Locksmiths car without prejudice(accepting no blame yet ) straight away :thumb: Then when and if their insurance pays up they can refund the money Armitage’s :thumb: Goodwill gesture and good publicity.
terry

 

[haganap]

Only my opinion-If Armitage’s want to continue in business/promote it why not do the decent thing and replace Locksmiths car without prejudice(accepting no blame yet ) straight away :thumb: Then when and if their insurance pays up they can refund the money Armitage’s :thumb: Goodwill gesture and good publicity.
terry

Now come on Terry, that would all be way to decent of them. I don't know how much a smart car costs, but surely it wasn't new so maybe 2-5k? in the scheme of things, it aint too much of a cost, considering what might of happened except for a observant trucker, and Locksmiths quick thinking in removing the motorhome.

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[Larrynwin]

Their main failure in my opinion for what its worth
Is failing to road test the vehicle after completion themselvesoh:
Asking the customer to test drive round their car park is simply not on and pretty poor/bad practice, they would/should as a matter of best practice have a suitable towing vehicle and road test it to their own satisfaction before hand over
This scenerio was aviodable Royal Wedding and Bank Holliday aside
There is the Kinked cable to concider, what liabiliy the cable manf has also, if any to Armatidge
50/50?????? Not in my lifetime:Sad:
Geo

My car a tow a frame was fitted by a small local garage. Before I collected , it was towed by him to ensure set up was correct.
I have never had a problem with my a frame !
If a cable was fitted with a kink, this could be a possible cause but proof is now impossible unless there was a witness to Waynes admission. No doubt the lack of proper testing could be seen as incorrect practice and the loss of business as a result of alleged poor service by Armitages being aired on this open forum could possibly be outweighed by a without prejudice, full and final settlement offer to the estimated cost of the vehicle.

 

[Locksmith]

Their main failure in my opinion for what its worth
Is failing to road test the vehicle after completion themselvesoh:
Asking the customer to test drive round their car park is simply not on and pretty poor/bad practice, they would/should as a matter of best practice have a suitable towing vehicle and road test it to their own satisfaction before hand over
This scenerio was aviodable Royal Wedding and Bank Holliday aside
There is the Kinked cable to concider, what liabiliy the cable manf has also, if any to Armatidge
50/50?????? Not in my lifetime:Sad:
Geo

I think you are so right.:thumb:

 

[Locksmith]

Bad Customer Service

Customer Service is the thing lacking here.
I heard nothing from Armitages till today through a Forum
The evening of the fire I was apologized to at least half a dozen times, told Mr Armitages would sort out a courtesy car so I would have been able to go away tomorrow 10th on our planned holiday, told what the fault was with the kinked cable and told I would get a full refund.
I was asked by Wayne to send the receipts for the recently purchased Smart Car and other receipts and they would deal with it. This I did and I called Armitages to say it may take a while for some receipts as the originals were burnt in the fire along with my specs Mandy blue disabled badge etc. I asked to speak with Wayne on three occasions and was then told he was with Clients, and I need to deal with there insurance company now.
I called their insurance company last Friday having got that information off Armitages secretary 8 day's after the fire to be told by there insurers that Armitages are not admitting liability.. I was gob smacked and that why I put this on the forums. I have still not heard anything apart from what they posted on the forum Motorhomefact.com.
I have checked my Bank there is no money there!!
I have checked the drive there is no courtesy car there !!
I have checked the answer phone there is no messages there !!

I'm afraid they admitted liability already in front of three people and made promises and have not kept them.
The car and losses do not mean that much to me but the thought I may have to pay more to get insurance because of their mistakes and their lies of compensation means I will never except a 50/50.

I'm going to make this my last post for a couple of day's and give Armitages time to sort their mess out before I go further.

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[Jim]

Hi Locksmith,

Sometimes publicity gets the wrong result, maybe going public on the forums "mid event", before the company had a chance to resolve the issue made them take a step back.

I think your decision to go quiet for a while, or at least until a settlement is reached is the right one. If they don't treat you like you think they should, or they treat you well, then you can leave them a review in the review section:thumb:

I really hope that you are back on the road with a new toad very soon. Best of luck:thumb:

 

[Locksmith]

Hi Locksmith,

Sometimes publicity gets the wrong result, maybe going public on the forums "mid event", before the company had a chance to resolve the issue made them take a step back.

I think your decision to go quiet for a while, or at least until a settlement is reached is the right one. If they don't treat you like you think they should, or they treat you well, then you can leave them a review in the review section:thumb:

I really hope that you are back on the road with a new toad very soon. Best of luck:thumb:

I agree totally with your comments.:thumb:

 

[rainbow chasers]

I am very aware of that ... Please re read my post !

I said....

I did mis-interpret your post. In an ideal world, yes, it shouldn't matter on a light vehicle - you know the rest!:thumb:

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[jhorsf]

Come On Armitage do the decent thing

An update


I have been in touch with locksmith by pm for a few days and he has still not had any contact from Armitage he asked me to post this on here to keep you up to date

there has been some info come through that you can post if you wish. I'm covered fully comprehensively on the smart car, if it had been damaged and repairable they would supply me with a loan car but as it is a write off I'm not covered for a loan car. I am however covered so all my cost will be met if this goes to court.
I'm also covered by the visa debit card chargeback scheme, so I can get the money back and visa will then go after Armitages for the money. so I have to wait while a valuation is done on the car and my insurance will pay me and once again go after the money from Amitages or their insurance company.
It's so awkward without the car as I have to use my locksmith van to get my wife around, I don't think they understand just how ill my wife has been and probably don't care.

Thanks, Andrew



Armitage do know about his wife as they have been told on Tuesday morning in an email I sent them.To not at least get in touch I find totally heartless and I think they will have to pull out all the stops now to come out of this with any dignity in my eyes

 

[jhorsf]

I have had an email from Andrew this morning this is the gist of it:


I'm waiting for the assessor to be in contact today with his valuation of how much the car will cost to replace. I think I have some wrangling to through yet, I spent around 12 hours on the phone over two day's just getting the correct people dealing with it.
It is being dealt with in the UK now and this was something I insisted on as the Indian operatives from a different culture could not understand why I was towing a car if it was not broken down.


good luck Andrew we hope you get sorted out quickly, and I believe Armitage have still not had the decency to get in touch shame on them

 

[olley]

There's been a discussion on another forum over whether an "A" frame on a car under 750kg needs to be braked. The contention is that while the regs say the brakes if fitted must work, they don't implicitly say they must be operated by the towing vehicle. They only say how they could be operated by the towing vehicle.

Ian

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[jhorsf]

its a real minefield I think

 

[olley]

A similar thread has been pulled on outandabout, shows you the advantage of paid sites, no piper to dance to.

Ian

 

[scotjimland]

A similar thread has been pulled on outandabout, shows you the advantage of paid sites, no piper to dance to.

Ian

I agree Ian, but more than likely pulled for a legal rather than commercial reason.

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[olley]

If that's the case Jim; why hasn't it been pulled on here and facts?

Ian

 

[scotjimland]

If that's the case Jim; why hasn't it been pulled on here and facts?

Ian

short answer, I don't know Ian, I haven't read the Facts or O&A threads.. Jim and Dave may have better lawyers

Did O&A give a reason or did the thread just disappear ?

 

[jhorsf]

According to a few pms I got from a few (members) on Oand A it was all my fault for daring to challenge a SAM self appointed mod on his post that angered me and several insisted I do not post, like thats gonna happen when someone tells me .Anyway I have the equivalent of a superinjunction

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