Smart Car catches fire (1 Viewer)

[Locksmith]

Sorry to hear about your Smart car and hope you get it sorted out soon.
We have an Armitages aframe and tow a Ford Fusion and had no trouble with it as yet (touch wood) when I had it fitted I only took the car up to their place and done the adjustments myself when I got home, which did take a little while to get perfect, even now when we are using the aframe I always check that the brakes are not binding on the car several times during the first 20 miles or so and whenever we stop for a break.

I agree, they did the demo, set up and the checks I watched and checked the neutral was selected and the hand break was off I put the bungee on as he showed me and then he did all the final double checks as I'd not done it before, I was told not to worry, when I do it on my own I will be fine if I follow the list of procedures printed on the A Frame, that was the last time I went in my car.... I then did three towing circuits of the large car park breaking hard about 6 - 7 times but after the first circuit and braking it seemed hard to pull away! the engineer was no where in sight so I carried on around the car park braking and pulling away doing another 2 circuits he then appeared and waved me over and directed me to a stop in front of the main building much to the annoyance of the other workers as I was blocking the big doors and they was trying to put trailers away ready for the Royal Holiday break. I got out and told him it seemed to drag when pulling away but he said I was not used to towing the car on the back and I needed to give it more welly, he then tightened the A Frame cable went in the car and checked and pulled the bungee.. he asked if I had any spanners and said I should check the cable tension 2-3 times on my way home, he then shook my hand and said good luck and goodbye...... It seemed a very short time later we then stood on the side of the A1 helplessly watching my Smart Car burn having saved the Motorhome.

 

[Larrynwin]

Locksmith, I am sorry that you have had this rotten experience.
I have always feared this kind of occurrence and as a result I double double check all connections before driving off and always stop and check again after 3 or 4 miles to be sure toad brakes are cool.
Sounds like Armitages pre collection set up and checks were inadequate in their haste to get home.
Go get em

 

[Simba]

"I got out and told him it seemed to drag when pulling away but he said I was not used to towing the car on the back and I needed to give it more welly, he then tightened the A Frame cable went in the car and checked and pulled the bungee.."

With a car the size/weight of a Smart car I would have thought you should not notice it on the back of your MH when towing it, and why did he then tighten the cable again after you told them it seemed to be dragging sounds like he wasn't really listening and was in a rush to close up. When I collected mine from them it seemed all rush at the end as they were waiting to get off home.

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[hilldweller]

I agree, they did the demo, set up and the checks I watched and checked the neutral was selected and the hand break was off I put the bungee on as he showed me and then he did all the final double checks as I'd not done it before,

I've got to comment -- Crap !

"Wrap a bungee"
"Do checks, do checks again"

This is grade one rubbish, something as potentially dangerous as a motor car should not be controlled like this. You don't check your brakes every few miles. You don't check you seat belt every few miles. You don't check you door locks every few miles. You don't check your steering wheel every few miles.

This is Mission Critical.

It should "clunk -- click -- SAFE". NO ROOM FOR ERROR.

If human being can make a mistake THEY WILL sooner or later.

No wonder they ban these things in sensible countries.

 

[Larrynwin]

I've got to comment -- Crap !

"Wrap a bungee"
"Do checks, do checks again"

This is grade one rubbish, something as potentially dangerous as a motor car should not be controlled like this. You don't check your brakes every few miles. You don't check you seat belt every few miles. You don't check you door locks every few miles. You don't check your steering wheel every few miles.

This is Mission Critical.

It should "clunk -- click -- SAFE". NO ROOM FOR ERROR.

If human being can make a mistake THEY WILL sooner or later.

No wonder they ban these things in sensible countries.

I disagree Brian, I do double check because I have a memory like a sieve oh: and so do others as proven in this case, if Locksmith had stopped two or three miles down the road, it would have been hot and smokin but this fire would not have happened.
When work has been carried out on any of my motors I always check that it has been done correctly.
On an a frame installation the bungee between the brake pedal and the drivers seat is to assist the the pedal return spring against the pull of the a frame brake cable to prevent brake binding.
Its too late when the disaster happens
An a frame if fitted and used correctly is a perfectly safe bit of kit :thumb:

Larry

 

[hilldweller]

I disagree Brian, I do double check because I have a memory like a sieve oh: and so do others as proven in this case, if Locksmith had stopped two or three miles down the road, it would have been hot and smokin but this fire would not have happened.

Larry

Disagree all you want, if the system was soundly designed and human proof he'd not need to stop.

This was played out in gliders many years ago. When the wings are removed for storage all the controls are disconnected. Prats have been known to couple the controls the wrong way, take off and die. All modern gliders now have fully automatic control engagement, clunk-click-safe. Human proof.

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[Larrynwin]

Disagree all you want, if the system was soundly designed and human proof he'd not need to stop.

This was played out in gliders many years ago. When the wings are removed for storage all the controls are disconnected. Prats have been known to couple the controls the wrong way, take off and die. All modern gliders now have fully automatic control engagement, clunk-click-safe. Human proof.

Very little is human proof. I know little about aircraft but have watched the checks made by pilots in the cockpit and the walk around checking the wings and fuselage etc to be sure that everything is correct before take off.
As a "senior" user of a trailer and a frame my double checks on both are a cover for my human frailties , its too late to say " wish I'd checked the tension on those straps " when the car has fallen off the trailer.
Not everything can be human proof.

Larry

 

[Geo]

Liability is one question yet to be answered
I have another
Will they be paying out for a Smart Car £ KKKKKKK
Or a trailer £ K
Geo

 

[haganap]

I believe that's called 'knock for knock', Jim - usually invoked when two claims are made from the same accident and where liability cannot be clearly established. This issue is not the same ... and the claim will be sizeable too. I'd be surprised if it was dealt with on a 'knock for knock' basis.

Sorry Squire (oh I love saying it like that reminds me of me dad and the coal man but htats another story)
But I can't agree,
I don't want to upset the OP but just offer some difference to what you say and for sure some questions that will be asked, and probably hotly disputed in any insurance wrangle. You say that Liability is not in question, (if Im reading it right) Clearly, Liability is not cut and dry here. We know it is, because we believe and trust one of our honest funsters. However in insurance world, they will be saying that the OP stopped down the road to carry out his checks as instructed, he then, adjusted too much and caused the incident and therefore not our clients fault. The OP insurance company will be saying that never happened, he never did, BOTH insurers will be saying you prove it, neither will be able to, and consequently the OP insurers will then be eligible to pay up.
Then, to use Geo's point, they will look at it and say paying out for an inexpensive trailor is less hassle than fighting the case for the OP and offer a pittance, and claim the monies back through overinflated premiums against the OP in years to come.

That, sadly is how I see it, I hope Im wrong and your right, I really do, but something tells me I won't be.

I hope the OP can take some solace from the fact, that most if not all us funsters really feel for him in his predicament and hope he gets a good result.

As someone who dragged his toad down the M5 with the Steering lock on for a couple of miles, I sort of agree with Hildweller, I am now ultra careful before going off with the toad and also rightly or wrongly, Although I have my brake connected on the toad, it is always really loose and probably does not operate the brakes on the car,Braking is hardly impaired as the car is so light, and yes I have tested this in an emergency or two.

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[hilldweller]

As someone who dragged his toad down the M5 with the Steering lock on for a couple of miles

Ah, another gliding one. On the ground, when is it windy, a wooden clamp is fitted to the rudder to stop it flapping about. The number of people who try to take off with it in place is huge. It's The Human Condition, we're off, yippeeeeee, let's go. "Dohhhhhhh, did I do that ?"

I won't tell you who drove 150 miles then had the thought "where is my coat with wallet ?". Or who arrived at Misterton with electric bikes and no batteries. But he was human.

I was in a factory one day, this guy had his had wrapped in a red tea towel. He'd been working years on a hand operated cross cut saw, this day he chose to pull the saw across his fingers.

We all moan about H&S but there is reason behind a lot of it.

 

[Terry]

It's OK saying stop and check a few miles down the rd but if I am reading this right Armatidges should have listened when he said it was harder to set off and done the checks for him :thumb:VERY BAD service in my opinion - how is someone supposed to know about new fitted stuff if not shown how to use it properly.Did they check the car ? or simply say give it some welly.
terry

 

[wivvy's dad]

One thing has become overly apparent to me with all this..................

If in the highly unlikely instance I ever need a car behind my M/H or C/V, it WILL be on a trailer.....


End of !

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[Terry]

Hi Locksmith, just thought of another idea without involving your insurance -Phone them up to find out how you stand,what they intend to do.:thumb:If no joy do what a darkside member did.(SHORT VERSION) I believe his name was Roclaire.He wanted to give his new swift m/h back as not fit for purpose but the dealer was having none of it.He ended up getting some sticker made basically saying the dealer and m/h were crap and think about it before buying one.He parked his van up outside the dealers who phoned the police,who came and said he was on a public rd so could do nothing.The dealer allegedly sent a couple of heavies round to intimidate him but he just out of the army was having none of it so stayed there.It ended up with Swift getting involved and replacing his m/h with a new one :thumb:---it went on a lot more than this-- but why not book a week off work and pitch up outside of Armatidges ? If you do keep us posted
terry

 

[buttons]

One thing has become overly apparent to me with all this..................
If in the highly unlikely instance I ever need a car behind my M/H or C/V, it WILL be on a trailer.....
End of !

I've seen loads of Smart cars on trailers, why do some owners prefer A-Frames?

 

[Geo]

Practical reasons, no trailer to store or park up on site
Legal reasons weight of car plus trailer
Licence reasons see above
Cost:thumb:

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[Larrynwin]

I have a trailer and a frame, always prefer the a frame, easier to hitch/unhitch and pop it in the boot on site :thumb:

 

[scotjimland]

One thing has become overly apparent to me with all this..................

If in the highly unlikely instance I ever need a car behind my M/H or C/V, it WILL be on a trailer.....


End of !

There are thousands of A frames in use.. they are perfectly safe if installed and used correctly.
I have only heard of one other accident due to a fault/failure of the frame.. was posted on here a couple of years back.

An A framed car is also stabler than a car on a trailer while towing.

Having used both trailers and an A frame, I would choose an A frame every time unless going to Spain .. but that's another debate.

One thing to be aware of is insurance.. You MUST notify the insurer of the towed car if A framing and also check that it is fully comp while being towed .. some insurers only cover third party, even when it's a fully comp policy ..

 

[Geo]

There are thousands of A frames in use.. they are perfectly safe if installed and used correctly.
I have only heard of one other accident due to a fault/failure of the frame.. was posted on here a couple of years back.

An A framed car is also stabler than a car on trailer while towing.

Having used both trailers and an A frame, I would choose an A frame every time unless going to Spain .. but that's another debate.

One thing to be aware of is insurance.. You MUST notify the insurer of the towed car if A framing and also check that it is fully comp while being towed .. some insurers only cover third party, even when it's a fully comp policy ..

And the main reason for my question "What will they pay out on"
Many are towing purely on there insurers spoken word, yes you are covered as its deemed to be a trailer when connected, Most if not all policies have a maximum trailer payout of circa £1000
Even on a trailer, you may need goods in transit cover for fully comp on the Toadoh:
Get it in writing in plain english:thumb:
geo

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[sedge]

I have read this thread, OP said that Armitages advised to check a couple or three times on the way home. Someone else says he could and maybe should have checked 2 or 3 miles down the road. So that means he he only lives 4 or 6 miles away then? - No cos he already told us about 40 miles. So why should he imagine he needed to stop and check unless he was between 10 and 13.5 miles beyond Armitages? And should he check every 2 or 3 miles thereafter? For how long? Always? Potty!

(I haven't a clue myself how far away from Armitages this happened but I have to say initially I thought the interval was between 13.5 miles and 20 - but it isn't! - that would be between once and twice .......)

 

[Locksmith]

I disagree Brian, I do double check because I have a memory like a sieve oh: and so do others as proven in this case, if Locksmith had stopped two or three miles down the road, it would have been hot and smokin but this fire would not have happened.
When work has been carried out on any of my motors I always check that it has been done correctly.
On an a frame installation the bungee between the brake pedal and the drivers seat is to assist the the pedal return spring against the pull of the a frame brake cable to prevent brake binding.
Its too late when the disaster happens
An a frame if fitted and used correctly is a perfectly safe bit of kit :thumb:

Larry

I agree but from Armitages your almost straight onto the A1 and I had every intention of stopping two or three times to check on it over the 170 mile return trip but thinking about it now those two or three checks should have been completed probably at the beginning of the journey not spread through the trip as my son and I understood it from the person doing the demo.

 

[Larrynwin]

I have read this thread, OP said that Armitages advised to check a couple or three times on the way home. Someone else says he could and maybe should have checked 2 or 3 miles down the road. So that means he he only lives 4 or 6 miles away then? - No cos he already told us about 40 miles. So why should he imagine he needed to stop and check unless he was between 10 and 13.5 miles beyond Armitages? And should he check every 2 or 3 miles thereafter? For how long? Always? Potty!

(I haven't a clue myself how far away from Armitages this happened but I have to say initially I thought the interval was between 13.5 miles and 20 - but it isn't! - that would be between once and twice .......)

I'm the one that checks after the first 3 or 4 miles and my reason as stated is that if my loss of grey matter has contributed to me forgetting something eg fully releasing the handbrake, then disaster will have been averted unlike the case in question. If all ok no further checks are necessary.
You will often see a lorry driver checking his strops when in services , its a human thing, " did i tighten that " so you double check!

Larry

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[Landy lover]

We always pull over after about 10 miles just to check all in place and no problems - always hold my hand up to the brake drums on the 5'er to make sure they are not binding - make sure all the lights are still OK. Check the connecting cables and brake away are still where they should be. Make sure the cupboards are all shut properly - only takes 2 minutes but can save hours of cleaning or problems. I know the day I say no need its all OK will be the day things go badly wrong.

 

[jhorsf]

If they fitted a kinked brake cable as stated then in my opinion there is no doubt where the blame lies

 

[happypre65]

smart car catches fire.

Hi Locksmith,sorry to hear of your fire, hang in there,it is down to them to make sure the work they done was safe, and i am sure you will get all the help from all parties i.e.trading standards etc,regards happypre65

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[Locksmith]

Hi Locksmith,sorry to hear of your fire, hang in there,it is down to them to make sure the work they done was safe, and i am sure you will get all the help from all parties i.e.trading standards etc,regards happypre65

Thanks , well it's Monday morning I should get some of the answers today.

 

[buttons]

I’m a little surprised that Elvis hasn’t given an opinion he is after all an expert on all things A-Frame.:thumb:

 

[JockandRita]

Thanks , well it's Monday morning I should get some of the answers today.

Same as on t'other side.

Good luck today Lockie. :thumb:

Cheers,

Jock.

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[haganap]

Thanks , well it's Monday morning I should get some of the answers today.

good luck fella, hope you get the result you need:thumb:

 

[scotjimland]

Good luck from me too..


One thing that this incedent has made glaringly obvious .... It is a lack of C&U regulations that are responsible.. It's high time this was looked at and C&U regs. introduced or have them banned outright ..

As long as they are a 'grey' area there is always going to be a risk of further accidents ... the next might be fatal.. What will it take to get them off their arse ...

 

[jhorsf]

I’m a little surprised that Elvis hasn’t given an opinion he is after all an expert on all things A-Frame.:thumb:

Last time I looked he had as they say left the building

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