Sleeping on the move ! (1 Viewer)

[Granjan]

When we recently set off for a weekend at short notice husband immediately noticed a rattle I said I would get out of my seat and check what it was when he stopped, he stopped for traffic lights I stood and went back checking the cupboards etc..... Before I had got back and without him really thinking he set off, another car suddenly pulled into the lane right in front of him and he had to slam all on, i pitched forward from the kitchen past the lounge nothing to hold onto and slammed head first into the back of his chair. Lucky it wasn't through the window Couldn't move for some minutes, cut to nose, glasses scratched and still got pain in back of neck and collar bone area. Scared husband to death. Please don't let your driver move off if you are not seated and belted .... Think I had a very lucky escape.

 

[mikekaren2]

I see no reason why not as long as it is SWMBO & you use the overhead bed, once at your destination push the driver and passenger seats forward drop the bed back down reassemble SWMBO (flat packed by now) maybe run the iron over her, or maybe just RUN

 

[Rob e Lee]

My wife is regularly up and down whilst travelling - usually to the fridge and back to keep me happy

Rob

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mjltigger]

Jackie often stays in bed when we move on - she gets worse hangovers than me

I wish I was brave enough to drive on when Ms tig was still asleep.. many Sat mornings sat watching her sleep it off


Of course I'm kidding...

 

[John & Joan]

If .in the UK, there is no requirement for all motorhomes to have seat belts for all passengers then it follows that it cannot be illegal?
To my knowledge there is no actual law against it.

As with most regulations regarding Motorhomes we are left guessing. There is no mention of Motor Caravans in the Highway Code. Speed limits are guessed at by referring to goods vehicle weight restrictions. (Motor Caravans are passenger vehicles not goods vehicles). Parking is a minefield. It is legal to move about is a bus or coach while moving. Seat belts must be used on seats where provided, but it doesn't say you must be belted into a seat if the vehicle is moving, only if seated.

 

[scotjimland]

Speed limits are guessed at by referring to goods vehicle weight restrictions. (Motor Caravans are passenger vehicles not goods vehicles).

that may have been the case some while ago.. not so now John..

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[John & Joan]

i

that may have been the case some while ago.. not so now John..

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Thanks for that one Jim. I'm getting forgetful I put a reference to that on the TMCTO website in January. Still recovering from the trip back from Spain and the breakdown.

 

[mjltigger]

Seat Belts

We are often asked about the law regarding rear seat belts in a motorhome hire. We decided to ask the Department for Transport for their interpretation on the law as it applies to seat belts fitted in motorhomes for hire. This article gives the essence of the information that they gave us.

The information below relates to the fitting of seat belts and the wearing of seat belts by adults. There is specific legislation, introduced in 2006, concerning the carrying of children in vehicles. Rather than trying to present all the somewhat complicated regulations here, please see:

Link Removed

For vehicles built up to October 2007 there was no legal requirement to have seat belts fitted to side-facing seats or seats that make up the accommodation area in motor caravans. Regulation 46 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended, states motor caravans first used on or after 1st April 1982 but before 1 October 1988 shall be equipped with anchorage points for the driver's seat and specified passenger seat (if any); and for motor caravans first used on or after 1st October 1988 shall be equipped with anchorage points for the driver's seat and any forward-facing front seat. You can download a copy of the SI at

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2001/20011043.htm.

However, this did not preclude manufacturers fitting seat belts to forward facing or rearward facing seats within the accommodation area if they wished to do so.

Where seat belts are fitted they must be worn.
Seats in the rear of a campervan for hire and motorhome rental did not, prior to October 2007, require seat belts (whether forward, rearward or sideways facing) and it is not illegal to carry unrestrained passengers in them while travelling, providing the vehicle is not overloaded. It is not something we would recommend however.

Although current seat belt wearing regulations do not prohibit carrying more passengers in vehicles than there are seat belts available, the police may prosecute drivers for carrying passengers in a manner that may injure someone.

We would advise that no-one should be carried in any unbelted seat in the rear of a motorhome hire or campervan hire. An EU Directive (2005/40/EC) on the installation of seat belts required that from 20 October 2007 new vehicles have to have seat belts fitted on all seats except those seats intended solely for use when the vehicle is stationary.

The original advice given to us by the DfT was that, where seat belts are fitted, from May 2009, the seat belt wearing Directive would prevent more passengers being carried than there are seat belts in the rear of vehicles. This would have meant that from May 2009, in any vehicle of whatever age, where seat belts are fitted in the rear, more passengers may not be carried in the rear than there are seat belts available.

They now tell us: "There will be no change in the regulations in May - our lawyers tell us that is not necessary because the existing regulations already adequately deal with the requirements of the seat belt wearing Directive. Our earlier view that we would need to change the regulations was mistaken. "Seat belt wearing regulations cannot apply in seats where seat belts are not fitted. Therefore there can be no specific prohibition on using such seats even if other seats in the rear of the vehicle have seat belts fitted. Specifically, the regulations exempt passengers from using a seat belt if a seat belt is not "available". If all the seats with belts are already occupied, then seat belts are clearly not "available" and the remaining passengers can use the seats without belts.

The advisability of carrying unrestrained passengers is another matter, to quote the DfT spokesman: "... the police can already act where people in the rear of any vehicle are considered to be carried in a dangerous manner because they are unrestrained. [Owners] should beware of unbelted passengers. In a crash, they can injure others in the vehicle ..."
In addition to considering the legal and safety issues involved, owners who intend to carry passengers in unbelted seats must check with their insurers to confirm that this is acceptable to them.

Our advice is that, regardless of the letter of the law, all passengers should wear seat belts.

To me the key point is that if belts are available they must be worn. Assuming you drive 2 up, there is a seatbelt available therefore SWMBO must travel in the belted seat. If you are carrying children they must be restrained in proper restraints for their age so they can't sleep in a bed. Seems it is legal if you have more than 2 passengers and only 2 seatbelts but not for children.

 

[eddie]

We used to put our kids to bed when they were tired, and let em sleep.

We prepare food, get drinks use the loo, and I've even been known to shower once or twice over the years leaving early to save times

Having seen lots of European Motorhomes in crashes, it doesn't matter where you are in it if the is a crash, and as everything flies forward out through the windscreen, being belted in at the front will kill you anyway

We never wanted the risk of belting them into the dinette, only to be "T" boned leaving the rear bed where they would (could) have been!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[deleted-member02]

Didn't a chap sleeping in the overcab die in a collision whilst travelling to Le Mans a few years ago ?

Lots of information on the web about Cliff Burton's death (Metallica Bass player) after a crash, he was sleeping in a bunk, the coach fell on top of him

I tend to agree with @eddievanbitz though, in a serious motorhome crash, chances are you're dead....

And taking a shower whilst moving, lol, hard to beat that one !

Personally, we're always belted, apart from the odd emergency loo break...

 

[Granjan]

On a bus you can stand and hold a pole or a strap, if you are standing in a motorhome and thrown off balance with nothing to hold you are helpless even at 10 mph. I honestly felt I could have broken my neck when I flew forward ... In my opinion its just not worth it. You may be Ok lying down as at least you wont fall!

 

[Reallyretired]

Swmbo has used the loo on a couple of occasions, as the sole mh driver I can't.
Having a shower though, that's something.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[ivorantony]

We travel to Scotland regularly from Kent and I prefer travelling late in the evening, as soon I hit the motorway system my missus is tucked up in bed and ZZZZZzzzzzzing,
Luckily for me I a cannot hear her above the noise from the motor/ radio,
I like to drive for about four hours then pull off motorway to some were quiet,
Then the big advantage to me gets realised! I get into bed and shove her over to her side that is cold then I have a lovely heated bed to fall asleep in,
I get the usual moans in the morning about coming too bed cold but it works for me! And her as she likes her beauty sleep

 

[MitchandJenny]

For those of you that don't get it ,this is a thread to end all the speculation ,
Is it illegal !
To keep it simple uk first .

OOOOOH !!!!

 

[Traveller_HA5_3DOM]

I think you will find that the seat belt regulations apply to those persons SEATED in forward facing seats. These are required to wear the seat belts.
There is no specific offence of not wearing seat belts for rear facing or side facing seats and certainly not for beds.
Having said that there is an overriding offence of carrying passengers in a manner where danger is likely to be caused to anyone in or on the vehicle. It is usually considered for anyone hanging onto the back of a pick up truck or those workers who sort in the open lorries that ply the streets collecting and sorting various household waste products whilst on the move. It is a subjective test but it sort of proves it's self if your passenger is injured as a result of walking about or thrown out of a bed and injured.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[gus-lopez]

and I've even been known to shower once or twice over the years leaving early to save times

Hopefully the grey waste was open ?

 

[eddie]

On a coach I can walk around, use the loo, or go to the bar for a drink

We currently drive a 32' RV that weighs 12 ton, so I really don't see the difference.

John Symons a mate of mine (inventor of Airide air bags and original SOG importer) was left for dead after his Pilote was hit by a milk lorry a few years ago, and everything including their two dogs went through the windscreen area!

Fridge, oven, cupboards, Thetford, the lot shot over his shoulders, leaving him a bloody mess outside the van, unable to move listening to the para medics say, "He's obviously dead leave him" see to the other driver!

He did make a full recovery !

 

[denisejoe]

Denise often needs to use the loo while we're travelling but definitely no seat belt in there, LOL!

Joe

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[lorger]

We have often though about this and to get round it we have fixed a large bungie to the rear and anyone walking about clips themselves on, we have also fitted a seatbelt to the loo after a bit of cornering caused a spillage.

 

[thehutchies]

Once the driver is feling tired, we have always found it useful to do the non-stop switcheroo.
Take the van to 70mph, driver keeps one foot on the accelerator, one foot in the aisle and one hand on the steering wheel.
Then, knock it into neutral while the co-driver jumps across and takes over the controls.

The driver can now go and have a well deserved glass of wine and a brief nap before the next changeover.

Remember, 'Tiredness can kill'!

 

[Badknee]

that may have been the case some while ago.. not so now John..

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Good link thank you.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[denisejoe]

We have often though about this and to get round it we have fixed a large bungie to the rear and anyone walking about clips themselves on, we have also fitted a seatbelt to the loo after a bit of cornering caused a spillage.

Is it hard getting the proper fixings for the seat belt

Joe

 

[PeteH]

Never really considered this, But we used the sleep in the cab bed, behind the driver seats (No Belts) on the move when doing two handed runs, Hull to Aberdeen and back Overnight, was one regular, so was Hull to Canterbury and on to Southampton!. Stop and change over every 3-4 hrs. To some extent it was considered that the risk was worth it from the point of view that the driver(s) where LESS tired and more likely to be "on the ball"?. Rather than Bounced about in the (Not always, belted) passenger seat?.

On American Roads SWMBO does occasionally have to "Go". And I Just ease back, give my self more room to stop if necessary and wait till she is back and Belted up.

After her last but 2 Major op; She travelled home from Hospital in Exeter On the "rack n roll" settee, all the way to Beverely in Yorkshire. That coach because of it`s age, and import, was not fitted with belts anyway, Probably no different to an ambulance. ??? and more comfortable than a Car by far!.

As with many things, the legality may be suspect, But as in all life you make decisions based on your own natural "Risk Assessment" and mine is that there is FAR TOO MUCH "Law". and not enough common sense!


Pete

 

[ianhyslop]

It is not illegal to sleep in the rear , finished , end of thread . Good night and God bless .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Reallyretired]

When anyone posts 'end of thread' it is essential that someone posts afterwards, even if they have nothing to add.

 

[thehutchies]

When anyone posts 'end of thread' it is essential that someone posts afterwards, even if they have nothing to add.

I like that!

And I believe that one is less likely to be the victim of a narcotic gassing attack if all sleeping is done whilst on the move.
Could this be true?

 

[sdc77]

It is not illegal to sleep in the rear , finished , end of thread . Good night and God bless .

Correct.. But before everyone goes for a kip be aware that having insecure passengers or load could illegal though. Also that.. In the case of an accident the insurance company may well not pay out.. If the casualty wasnt using a belted seat. Just something to be aware of.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Puddleduck]

Probably no different to an ambulance. ???

Modern ambulances have seat belts and the staff insist they are used.

The patient is strapped in either sitting or on the stretcher and the paramedic or attending staff member in the back is also usually strapped in but in such a position as to be able to observe the casualty. If more attention is needed the driver is asked to pull over.

That's what happened to me anyway.

 

[scotjimland]

I've asked the question on the Police site .. will post the answer when they reply

and reply today.. copy pasted




To: James Allan
Subject: RE: Question Asked from England and Wales FAQ Web Site
Reply from Ask The Police


James

If seatbelts are available for the passengers that are present, they should be worn. Please see the following link:

http://www.motorhomeinfo.co.uk/seat-belts-in-motorhomes/

If no seatbelts are available to use, then a passenger could legally be 'unbelted' in the rear of the motorhome and sit/lay wherever they wish. However, you should consider the safety implications of this, should a collision occur.

Please note that in the circumstances you describe, even if the person was not committing an offence in relation to seat belt legislation, they may commit the offence of carrying passengers in a manner likely to cause danger. However, this would very much depend on the circumstances and would ultimately be a matter for a court to decide.

Regards,
PNLD
(NR)(CS)

 

[Reallyretired]

According to the above you can only have unbelted passengers in the rear if there are no seat belts AND the mh was registered before October 2007.

After that date you cannot carry passengers at all unless there is a designated travel seat with belts.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}