Sidelight problem

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by Diabalo, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,966
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Rochester
    Bessacarr E435 on Fiat X250 chassis

    I have a side light problem, the warning light for lights came up on the dashboard and the rear nearside brake light had blown I replaced the bulb but the warning light does not go out and the nearside sidelights are now not working but the brake light is.

    Lights working/ not working

    • Front N/S vehicle sidelight not working
    • Front N/S van top marker light working
    • Front O/S van top marker light working
    • Front O/S vehicle sidelight working
    • Rear van N/S bottom side light not working
    • Rear van N/S top marker not working
    • Rear van O/S top sidelight working
    • Rear van O/S bottom sidelight working

    Both N/S and O/S side marker lights are working

    I have trawled the internet and it’s not an uncommon problem but no one seems to have a DIY solution, following advice I have tried disconnecting the battery for 20 mins to reset the Can Bus wotsits to no avail. Can anyone point me in the right direction or is it a main dealer jobbie?

    Can anyone recommend a pc compatible diagnostic reader?




     
  2. WillH

    WillH Funster

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,612
    Likes Received:
    1,283
    Location:
    SW Scotland
    Just a thought but when the bulb popped it may have weakened the fuse which subsequently blew, have you checked it?

    Bill
     
  3. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    26,417
    Likes Received:
    25,074
    Location:
    Macclesfield
    Well NS is the common feature.

    With CABUS there is a data cable from light to light to switch it, I wonder if you could have disturbed this changing the NS bulb ???

    Have you actually checked the bulbs - it's near impossible but they may have popped at the same time.

    Have you identified a common fuse ?
     
  4. jhorsf

    jhorsf Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    May 15, 2009
    Messages:
    9,157
    Likes Received:
    8,067
    Location:
    DERBYSHIRE
    I remember reading somewhere that x250 are funny about exactly what bulb you fitted it has to be the exact same wattage and not a cheap near enough bulb
     
  5. dave newell lvs

    dave newell lvs Trader-Vehicle Services

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,509
    Likes Received:
    3,309
    Location:
    Telford, Shropshire
    Nearside side light fuse should be first port of call. High level marker lights are not standard Fiat units so could take their feed from any of the other lights (and are probably connected through an isolation relay just like towing socket would be) regardless of position.

    D.
     
  6. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,966
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Rochester
    Thanks for the reply's

    According to Fiat the side lights do not have a fuse as the Can Bus is the protection.

    The replacement bulb was from a kit for Fiats spare bulbs fuses etc so I would have thought it should be the same but worth checking.

    I have the wiring diagram from seargents HERE and the rear lights are not linked as far as I can tell.

    There is a relay to do with the road lights for the conversion that is in the off side door pillar which I can hear clicking when switching the side lights on but then again it would as some of them are working. The odd thing is the top front marker N/S marker light is working.
     
  7. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    26,417
    Likes Received:
    25,074
    Location:
    Macclesfield
    From that circuit which lamps by number are not working ?
     
  8. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,966
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Rochester
    Brian,

    It's,

    L4 n/s Tail lamp
    L11 n/s rear top marker lamp

    And the front n/s van not shown on the diagram, the fact that the front n/s van side light is not working must have a bearing on the matter.

    L4 and L11 use the same black wire which is not live, I have followed it back to the cab but then I lose it as it disappears over the top of the fuel tank, it connects as far as I'm aware to a special block and where that is I don't know.
     
  9. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,966
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Rochester
    Brian,

    I have found a wiring diagram for the lights on the Fiat Ducato x250 HERE does it help any?
     
  10. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    26,417
    Likes Received:
    25,074
    Location:
    Macclesfield
    The Sargent diagram has gone missing - copyright problem ??
     
  11. steviebouy

    steviebouy Funster

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    Pucklechurch, Bristol
    Hi Diabalo and others, I fitted LED bulbs in my stop/tail lamps on a Fiat X250 which led (no pun) to the inevitable dash warning light. I ignored this and eventually, after being on the road for 10 weeks, the lamps ceased to function. I refitted the original bulbs which gave no joy. I also carried out the battery disconnection reset which also didn't help. Next port of call was my dealer, who is Fiat approved service centre, expecting them to reset something with their box of tricks. They were as baffled as me and claimed to have fixed the problem by replacing all the bulbs as it was impossible to know which bulb was causing a problem. Now that might be a quick fix to cure an illuminated warning light but not sure how that restored non functioning rear lights. Sounded llike b/s to me but my dealer is usually correct, and yes, I do know bulbs are planted in the garden and lamps are fitted into ones lights!
    Oh, thanks for the diagram
    Good luck - Steve
     
  12. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    9,587
    Location:
    Dorset
    I have the Fiat X250 workshop manual DVD if you think this would help and would like a copy send me a pm :thumb:
     
  13. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,966
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Rochester
    Thanks for the offer but I'm not sure it would help in this instance as I think the problem is habitation side but I would be grateful for a copy anyway.
     
  14. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,966
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Rochester
  15. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    Diablo - you need to address the power supply issue to the nearside front, this is the first light to fail. So the issue will be between this light and the can power output. You will need to look at that supply first, as it will knock out the rest of the n/s circuit if power is not getting past.

    If you disconnect anything, remove the battery terminals first so the ECU/CAN doesn't throw up a fault.

    Steve - Fitting LED will confuse the canbus. It sees (normally) x watts - lets say 30w going out of the canbus and 30 coming back in - so all is fine. If you fit LED's, it sends 30w out and only gets something like 12w coming back, so assumes their is a bulb gone. After a while, it will isolate the system to prevent damage/fire - which is why you lost all the lights.

    There are two solutions, the canbus can be reprogramed to accept the new circuit in most cases - or you can buy a bypass relay which fools the Can into thinking everything is fine. If you fit the relay in line between the main loom and the LED convert circuit it will solve the issue.
     
  16. steviebouy

    steviebouy Funster

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    Pucklechurch, Bristol
    Hi Rainbow Chaser for the clear and concise explanation. However in the normal course of events (that is, without me interfering) would it be fair to say that a failed tail lamp bulb would lead to a total shutdown of all the rear lights as happened to me. No one likes a wiring fire but to drive with no rear lights is a bit grim. Do we know what the timescales are between warning and shutdown? What did the dealer do to reinstate the lamps as he maintained the CANBus wasn't reset with the computer?
     
  17. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,747
    Likes Received:
    1,720
    Location:
    Mid Cornwall
    With normal bulbs, a bulb will fail, the bulb failure device will inform you, and you then replace the bulb. Once this is done, so long as the voltage is precisely correct the canbus/ecu will accept it and reset itself without issue.

    By replacing with leds, you confused the ECU/CAN unit. There is no set time as to when and how it will shut down - they never used to shut down a few years back which is what led to ECU fires and burnt out vehicles - however they do now thankfully.

    In your case, once bulbs were put back in, it reset everything as they original wattage going out equalled that coming back in. If you had the dealer fit the LED bulbs, they would have told the unit to accept the new figures via the diag program.
     
  18. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    26,417
    Likes Received:
    25,074
    Location:
    Macclesfield
  19. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,966
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Rochester
    Sounds like a good plan to me, I have been working back the other way, will have another crack at it the weekend.:thumb:
     
  20. Diabalo

    Diabalo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,966
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Rochester

    Brian,

    That is well odd it does the same for me now from that link.

    It is in the downloads section under

    User Manuals
    Sargent wiring diagram Sundance etc:thumb:
     
Loading...

Share This Page