Self builders and converters

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Dorwyn, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Dorwyn

    Dorwyn Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    somerset
    We're just back from the NEC show. On a van converters stand - I think it was Danbury, there was a large display placard singing the praises of their vans being type approved, and basically rubishing all conversions, self builds included, that are not so approved. Essentially it was saying that any non-approved conversions were laying themselves open to all sorts of legal and insurance liabilities. I did not fully digest the statement, but on the drive home thought about the potential ramifications not only to the converters, but to self-builders.

    It would be interesting to hear what any self-builder, or indeed other converters, make of this - fairly strong - statement. It might be worth seeing the full text, if someone can track it down.
     
  2. canopus

    canopus Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,827
    Likes Received:
    3,207
    Location:
    Lincolnshire
    When we had a narrowboat it was the same problem. On the canal a boat had to have a boat safety certificate in order to get a licence to use the canal. Boat Safety Inspectors were allegedly qualified and certified by BW now Canals & Rivers Trust to carry out safety inspections on their behalf. Similarly gas installations strictly had to be installed by what used to be called Corgi registered fitters and many self builders fell foul of this due to them having non-accreditation with the Corgi. Vintage engines couldnt have exposed flywheels, there had to be adequate low level ventilation etc etc etc. Its only a matter of time IMO where vans will have to be certified whether they are from manufacturers or self builders. No doubt the numptie crats in Brussels will stick their two penneth in as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .
    Just googled and found this so don't shoot the messenger..

    Vehicle type approval explained


    From April 29, 2012, every motorhome sold in the UK and in the other European member states must be Type Approved. The requirements for seats, seatbelts and their anchorage points are all clearly defined in these regulations. However, motorhomes are not subject to crash tests under the Type Approval framework.

    http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Mo...ehicle-type-approval-explained/_ch1_ft957_pg1
     
  4. Dorwyn

    Dorwyn Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    somerset
    I can't think that
    That's a good google (that's an odd phrase!). Obviously converters get around this by pre-registering new vehicles. But the longer term potential problems legal- and insurance-wise is what is interesting me. I'm not suggesting the all self conversions are illegal.
     
  5. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .
    perhaps.. but once converted they need to be re-registered as motor caravans..

    but provided ..and I quote.. the motorhome manufacturer can use the approvals from the base vehicle provided it does not modify the specification of the base vehicle. If the base vehicle is modified then the motorhome manufacturer will have to get that aspect re-approved.

    so in essence.. if the convertor does not add more belted traveling seats , or modify existing .. they are not modifying the vehicle.. if they do, they would need re- approval..

    which begs the question.. does fitting swivel brackets to existing fixed seats constitute modifying.. ? I would say yes..
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Dorwyn

    Dorwyn Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    somerset
    ... Or even changing the double passenger front seat for a single. Which reminds me, there was some reference on their placard to it not being possible to re-register as a motorhome, only as a PLG. Which is the case with my PVC (not a new conversion, though). It's a bit concerning for the industry? I can't imagine that being the case.
     
  7. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .
    sounds like more waffle from Danbury .. .. it is a legal requirement to register correctly.

    all van conversions done correctly to the DVLA specification should be be re-registered as motor caravans.. .. personal benefits are reduced VED and insurance..

    http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/motor-caravans.asp


    There is a legal requirement that a UK registered vehicle is in the correct classification on the V5C log book.
    If you have converted a van into a motor caravan then you must return the V5C for amendment once the conversion is complete.

    plenty info here
    http://www.caravanwise.co.uk/motor/diycamper.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
  8. Dorwyn

    Dorwyn Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    somerset
    It is reregistered as a motor caravan, taxation class is PLG. Been through that process.

    It was doing it from new that I was contemplating, and wondering if there are newer requirements, and what the effects would be.

    Was that display on the Devon stand?
     
  9. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .

    oops.. my mistake.. I meant Danbury .. post edited. :cry:
     
  10. Dorwyn

    Dorwyn Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    somerset
    ... and what about horse boxes, and general coachbuilders' conversions? Never mind coachbuilt motorhomes. Does everything have to have type approval?
     
  11. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .
    As I understand it yes..
    I imagine horse boxes would come under 'goods vehicles' ..but not my area of expertise.. more information on the site

    http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/index.asp
     
  12. gus-lopez

    gus-lopez Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2014
    Messages:
    4,404
    Likes Received:
    8,058
    Location:
    Lorca,Murcia,Spain
    In Scotjims first link it clearly says
    " low volume converters & single builders" use an IVA
    ( Independent vehicle Approval )
     
  13. Terry

    Terry Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    10,722
    Likes Received:
    6,224
    Location:
    South yorks
    Well here goes -:D-It's aplicable if Danbury etc take a UNREGISERED vehicle do the conversion and sell it as a reg motor caravan ie never reg as a van/comercial van only reg as a motor caravan -They need to have a engineers repot/or have a VOSA cert to say they are approved to do so from vosa -myself can buy a new van that would be reg as a van -convert it then send off for a change of use to motor caravan be on a new van or 10 yr old one Not going into all regs but basic a van needs cooker, sink wardrobe seat/bed and table and most importantly now it needs to look like a motor caravan
    terry
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .
    That is all understood Terry, that is a VOSA requirement for being registered as a Motor Caravan..

    but that is not EU Type Approval http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/index.asp

    if you go back to the start of the thread this is what is being refereed to..

    Example 1 You buy a panel van to convert , and fit out to VOSA standard , do NOT fit any more traveling seats.. or modify existing.. No Type Approval Required. because you haven't added to or changed the traveling seats.

    Example 2 As previous, but you modify the front seats in some way, fit swivel or change a double seat to a single seat .. or fit another belted traveling seat(s) in the rear.. .. It will require Type Approval..
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2015
  15. Terry

    Terry Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    10,722
    Likes Received:
    6,224
    Location:
    South yorks
    Pleding a GREY area on swivel seats :D
     
  16. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28,934
    Likes Received:
    25,574
    Location:
    .

    maybe.. do you feel lucky :LOL:

    Type Approval has broader ramifications.. quite often hear questions about retro- fitting extra seat belts in the rear .. that would breach the Type Approval Certification of that van..
     
  17. Dorwyn

    Dorwyn Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    somerset
    I did think at the show that Murvi and some others were not showing vans with belted rear travel seats, but larger companies such as Tribute, Swift and Adria were. I wonder if that is so, and could be because of type approval issues. Camper van converters were, though. Makes me also wonder about the ramifications for the after sales market.
     
  18. Terry

    Terry Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    10,722
    Likes Received:
    6,224
    Location:
    South yorks
    It could well be that if they have a VOSA/engineers report/aproval that they can fit extra seat belts without any more aproval ---I know I can buy type aproved /pull tested rear rock and roll beds to fit in vans but who is to say I have fitted them right ?Big can of worms -:)Better if you loose can opener :Dor fit side benches ;)no belts req (y):D
    terry
     
  19. Dorwyn

    Dorwyn Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    286
    Location:
    somerset
    I would agree, can of worms. It defies common logic, there must be some way around it.
     
  20. Terry

    Terry Funster

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    10,722
    Likes Received:
    6,224
    Location:
    South yorks
    do what French do -ignore it all ;):D
    terry
     
Loading...

Share This Page