Search for sites (1 Viewer)

Oct 18, 2014
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I just want to say what a great service Ian gives.
I emailed him late yesterday to say that Belgium was missing from the download section to maps.me in particular. This morning I awoke to find an email from him, he has added more countries including Belgium to the list!

Ps: I've started adding "wheelchair" to to our reviews to give a view re local access etc.
 

Dave and Ginny

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Agree, it's a great site and so easy and reliable to use. I even managed to do a review and upload a photo without any bother whilst on the network and sat at the aire at Velez Blanco.
 

Welsh girl

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I've added a few sites and reviewed a few too. This is an invaluable site and Ian is quick to respond. I recommend this site too.

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Anthea M

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I just want to say what a great service Ian gives.
I emailed him late yesterday to say that Belgium was missing from the download section to maps.me in particular. This morning I awoke to find an email from him, he has added more countries including Belgium to the list!

Ps: I've started adding "wheelchair" to to our reviews to give a view re local access etc.
Can you give me the site name please? Sounds really good!(y)

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scotjimland

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So the scenario is... MHF (or anyone else for that matter) add a new site to their database. Do they then own that co ordinate and no one else has a right to list it? The same site appears in searchforsites, did I copy it from their data? or did I visit it? did I get the info from a book? did I download it from POI factory or the many POI databases out there? or did I just find it with the power of google?

I would love to hear the conversation he has with the likes of France Passion

Have you seen this website listing your sites? -but please dont look at my site listing your sites

Or the conversation to ACSI, "here is someone freely promoting your business with links directly to your site", "don't look a my site showing the same and not linking to your site."

I believe the only people who have a right to complain are the campsite owners themselves which let us not forget are all buisnesses

So
basically it's a collection of data bases harvested from other sites , ASCI, CC , Campincarinfos , France Passion etc etc .. and from what I have read.. without the owners permission.

for that reason I won't support or recommend..

http://www.seqlegal.com/blog/scraping-data-mining-and-data-harvesting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping


I use Campercontact.. it can be used with the downloaded maps without a data connection...
 
Last edited:
Feb 16, 2013
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All it is , is a collection of sites that can be found on the Internet , it's just that he has collected them together to save you having to trawl through loads of stuff, where else can you get wild camping sites, and full blown delux sites and anything in between, in one place , as for France passion , how's it hurting them, you have still got to be a member to stay there, it's just telling you where they are.
Just a pity it's not available off line without faffing about with maps me , I still can't get my head around that.
 
OP
OP
StitchesnFluff
Oct 18, 2014
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All it is , is a collection of sites that can be found on the Internet , it's just that he has collected them together to save you having to trawl through loads of stuff, where else can you get wild camping sites, and full blown delux sites and anything in between, in one place , as for France passion , how's it hurting them, you have still got to be a member to stay there, it's just telling you where they are.
Just a pity it's not available off line without faffing about with maps me , I still can't get my head around that.
Re maps.me
On iOS. Download colour pin associated with facilities followed by country' click download new screen opens, select open with then maps.me. Need to do each site type with each country so for example......
Red - overnight with services - Germany you then do same with France, U.K. Etc

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irnbru

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How come I cannot click on "OffstreetParking" in the settings menu? Its grayed out and Im logged in?
 

scotjimland

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All it is , is a collection of sites that can be found on the Internet , it's just that he has collected them together to save you having to trawl through loads of stuff, where else can you get wild camping sites, and full blown delux sites and anything in between, in one place , as for France passion , how's it hurting them, you have still got to be a member to stay there, it's just telling you where they are.
Just a pity it's not available off line without faffing about with maps me , I still can't get my head around that.

You can put any spin on it you like.. but it's data theft .. most, if not all these data bases require membership .. for example France Passion.. , Wild Camping POIs etc .. downloading then reusing for another purpose is breach of contract.. and even if they are available, the owners permission should be sought..

Many websites incorporate data obtained from other websites. It is sometimes thought that, where the data obtained is not protected by copyright (e.g. data consisting of postal addresses arranged alphabetically) there are no legal problems. This is however a mistake: the collection and re-use of such data can present significant legal risks.

on the FP site it says

Copyright
The Company France Passion has created this site for user’s personal information purposes. No commercial exploitation of the data, even partial, presented on this site shall be performed without prior and written agreement of the Company France Passion.

The presentation and the contents of this site, constitute together, a work protected by the laws in force on the intellectual property, whose company France Passion is titular. No reproduction and/or representation, partial or integral, can be made without prior and written agreement of the Company France Passion.

Drawings, photographs, images, texts, animated sequences or not, and other documentations represented on this Internet site are subject of property industrial and/or intellectual laws and, according to the cases, are the property of the Company France Passion or any third party having authorized, with limitation, the Company France Passion to use them.

For this reason, any reproduction, representation, adaptation, translation, and/or transformation, partial or integral, or transfer on another site are prohibited. The copy of these various objects of rights for private use is authorized. Their partial or integral reproduction, without prior and written
agreement of the Company France Passion, is strictly prohibited, with the exception of the copy carried out for the needs for the press.




Graham @GJH had this problem with his Motorhome friendly parking site.. the data was being used without his express permission..

I have given my view.. . I am not taking the moral high ground.. t's just how I see it ..

others have to make their own mind up..
 
Feb 16, 2013
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You can put any spin on it you like.. but it's data theft .. most, if not all these data bases require membership .. for example France Passion.. , Wild Camping POIs etc .. downloading then reusing for another purpose is breach of contract.. and even if they are available, the owners permission should be sought..



on the FP site it says






Graham @GJH had this problem with his Motorhome friendly parking site.. the data was being used without his express permission..

I have given my view.. . I am not taking the moral high ground.. t's just how I see it ..

others have to make their own mind up..
Fair enough, but don't see how it is commercial, what's he get out of it, nowt as I can see!

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OP
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StitchesnFluff
Oct 18, 2014
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People are adding sites as are independent campsites by the look of it, so a right mix on there. I guess they all have started somewhere as have Campercontact, bordatlas etc
 

GJH

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All it is , is a collection of sites that can be found on the Internet , it's just that he has collected them together to save you having to trawl through loads of stuff, where else can you get wild camping sites, and full blown delux sites and anything in between, in one place , as for France passion , how's it hurting them, you have still got to be a member to stay there, it's just telling you where they are.
Just a pity it's not available off line without faffing about with maps me , I still can't get my head around that.
There are legitimate and illegitimate ways of publishing collections of data from other web sites.
It is legitimate to include a link to another site on one's own site and it is legitimate to publish copies of datasets created by other people if you have their permission.
It is not legitimate (as @scotjimland says it is theft) to publish copies of datasets created by other people if you do not have their permission - that is especially the case if you make a charge to access data put together as a result of a great deal of effort by somebody else.
Fair enough, but don't see how it is commercial, what's he get out of it, nowt as I can see!
It doesn't have to be commercial. Why should somebody who has out in the effort to create a dataset tolerate its being passed off as somebody else's work (as it is when there is no acknowledgement of the data source)?

The other aspect about the Search for Sites web site is its accuracy. As I have mentioned before, 3 out of the 4 overnight/wild camping "sites" shown within the default radius of my location do not have the legal status claimed and the fourth is dubious.
 

scotjimland

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Fair enough, but don't see how it is commercial, what's he get out of it, nowt as I can see!

It doesn't matter whether it is commercial or not.. permission should have been sought.. if it were and not given it shouldn't be included..

If someone used your camper van without permission, even if you left the keys in the ignition.. it would be theft..

as it happens there is an on-line store that will benefit commercially

People are adding.. but I bet 99 % of the data was taken from other data bases..

we have both made our point.. we have different views.. so no point in arguing about it..

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OP
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StitchesnFluff
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I suppose one of the attractions for me is the ability to chat with him, he is going to add a wheelchair button to give a more accessible view on sites. Not sure why it's easier for home to do this sort of thing.
 
R

Robert Clark

Deleted User
Fair enough, but don't see how it is commercial, what's he get out of it, nowt as I can see!
He may make no commercial gain himself - but he denies potential income from others like France Passion who's members won't pay their subs if the list of sites has been stolen/misused and is available elsewhere.
 
Feb 16, 2013
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He may make no commercial gain himself - but he denies potential income from others like France Passion who's members won't pay their subs if the list of sites has been stolen/misused and is available elsewhere.
No you are wrong with France passion, you can't go on a fp site without the book so makes no difference apart from someone might see the sites and like the look of them and actually join fp because they have seen it on searchforsites, everyone's a winner(y)
 
Feb 16, 2013
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No you are wrong with France passion, you can't go on a fp site without the book so makes no difference apart from someone might see the sites and like the look of them and actually join fp because they have seen it on searchforsites, everyone's a winner(y)
And as a matter of fact the link takes you straight to the France passion web site

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R

Robert Clark

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No you are wrong with France passion, you can't go on a fp site without the book
Yes you can - I'm a member of France Passion and many of their their host sites are not limited to members only.
Data theft / misuse may appear to be a victimless crime. But it's the data owner, like France Passion who are the real losers

Edit - have to admit I have a vested interest
I own an online business and have had data and images stolen from my site without permission
 
OP
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StitchesnFluff
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I expect all the mayors in France would be grateful for the extra visitors as would any location incl pubs passion c&cc cc etc, it's good to see all the sites on one source, for us to visit f passion we would need to join just like we joined britstops and we pay for Campercontact. Having discussed of site I still think I started this thread for genuine reasons and see both sides of the argument. I don't rip off anyone by using it ie f passion.

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R

Robert Clark

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I think that the concept behind Searchforsites and Campercontact are excellent - being able to add sites and reviews are very valuable - however if the base data if the site is stolen it makes the whole concept of the site somehow dishonourable
 

scotjimland

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@StitchesnFluff

Please don't take it personally.. as Robert said.. the concept is excellent.. but if you had put a lot of time and effort into compiling a data set with all the information.. such as Steve of Britstops has .. you would be pretty pissed off if you found your work had been stolen and now free for all to use..
It's probably one of the reasons Steve hasn't made his POI data set available on-line..

You don't need to join Britstops to use Pubs, FP , or the Caravan Club to use CLs .. most (not all) site owners don't really care too much.. business is business.. who would refuse money just because they customer doesn't have the current year book or club card .. ?


that's just my view... not having a go at anyone..
 
Feb 16, 2013
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@StitchesnFluff



You don't need to join Britstops to use Pubs, FP , or the Caravan Club to use CLs .. most (not all) site owners don't really care too much.. business is business.. who would refuse money just because they customer doesn't have the current year book or club card .. ?


that's just my view... not having a go at anyone..
Are these people as much to blame as someone for putting it on a website

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Feb 16, 2013
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Which people, those who put a lot of effort in to provide a resource for others to use under certain conditions or those who copy from others and present the data as if it were their own?

I guess the people who knowingly use stolen info are as guilty as those who steal it
No,no,no, the people who sign up for Britstops , France passion , or cc, ccc, then let all and sundry park there without being in the schemes.

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