SCOOTER ON A RACK - ANYONE DRIVE WITH ONE?

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Chaumo, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. Chaumo

    Chaumo Funster

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    Done the calculations including the overhang so I know it is possible for our Dethleffs to carry a rack and small scooter/motorbike. Combined weight being about 130kgs. I will need the towbar reinforced by the supplier as it is currently only rated to 100kgs. We have considered trailers of all varieties for two wheels and four wheels. We have considered A frames as well. We have discounted all forms of pedal cycles. So, my questions are to anyone else who drives a 4250kgs A class / coachbuilt motorhome with a 2.4m overhang, with a scooter on a rack - what is the driving experience like? (We have Dunlop air assist suspension.) Are we likely to lose traction on the front wheel drive? (Front axle about 78kgs lighter). How difficult is it to put something like a Honda 125 onto the rack?
    Your views will be gratefully received.
     
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  2. The Dude

    The Dude Funster

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    We have a 4250 kgs Pilote G 742 with a scooter rack on the back carrying a Honda Vision (102 kgs). We also have air assist. No problems at all, however we do find that it's a two man job to get the scooter on and off.
     
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  3. sciac2001

    sciac2001 Funster

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    Think carefully.
    We travelled 2 years with a 125kg bike on our rack. We have a Burstner Aviano on a Fiat 3litres, 160hp Front wheel drive!! Plated at 4000kgs. (Weights on axles and overall were okay.) The overhang from rear axle to rack is considerable and mainly my problems stem from this.
    No problems on straight and levels. However, on inclines we could feel the lightness at the front. On steeper hills it quickly became a confidence-loser and when we got to a steep hill with a tight bend, it struggled mightily. So much so that we ALWAYS had to look for routes that avoided hills of any note. Secondly, it is obviously a badly balanced combination as you will notice yourself when you negotiate roundabouts. Massive understeer!!
    I have since taken my rack off and stored the motorbike and driving is a much more relaxed affair, although to be honest, still gives so e concern. Fundamentally, these a-classes should never in my opinion be saddled with front-wheel drivetrains. There is simply far too much weight at the back. (I had given the balance some thought before embarking with a rack and motorbike and fitted an extra tyre underneath near the front of the cg. I dread to think how I would have got on without it.)
    If carrying a rack and scooter, seriously consider rear-wheel drives only.
    Personal experience. Others will no doubt have happier ones.
     
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  4. sciac2001

    sciac2001 Funster

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    Ps: had Dunlop Air Suspension fitted after year 1 to see if it helped. Better, especially on ground clearances but still basically the tail wagging the dog.
     
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  5. Bovisand

    Bovisand Funster

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    We have a Hymer B 698, 2.3 150 Fiat Comfortmatic with a Honda Vision 110 on a rack.
    Have gone for the lightest combination we considered acceptable: Towtal rack only (no towbar) and Scooter weighing in at around 108 kilos.
    Had it for over a year now with the longest trip to Spain and back last year and
    the handling is fine considering the long overhang. We also have air suspension which does seem to make a big difference.
    Previously we towed our Scooter using an Easylifter rig which served us well for well over 7000 miles, but so much prefer the rack for for ease and speed in getting the Scooter on and off, less securing and strapping required, less moving parts to worry about, less of an extension at the back.

    Yes I dare say the Easylifter made more sense from a weight distribution point, but the rack wins hands down in every other way.

    Just back from a trip to Ravensglass in the Lakes and the very long narrow steep and windy roads needed to get there and have to say I was extremly pleased with the overall handling. As sciac2001 says everyones experiene will be different.
    Rack.jpg Easylifter.jpg
     
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  6. Cyclists

    Cyclists Funster

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    yes we carry a 130kg scooter and agree pretty much with all what all sciac2001 says, although we still carry it because it's so handy. When its on the rear we really have to watch what we load to the rear including next to no fresh water. I do load it on a hydraulic easylifter on my own without too much problem though.

    oh and i do carry two cycles also.
     
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  7. Cyclists

    Cyclists Funster

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    what rack is that bovisand?
     
  8. Bovisand

    Bovisand Funster

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    The first photo is our current Motorhome with a Towtal Rack and a Honda Vision 110.
    The second pic is our previous rig: an Autotrail Savannah (frontier range) with and Easyliter 'trailer' and a Honda SH125 (which is a great bike, but we found just a bit to big and heavy).
     
  9. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    If your figure of the bike making the front end lighter by 78Kg is correct that means it is adding a total of 208kg (130 + 78) onto your rear axle. I suspect your biggest problem may well be overloading the rear axle. To give you some idea of the figures we have our 100kg scooter in our garage (no towbar) and that adds about 130kg to the rear axle of our 4500kg Hymer. That works OK for us and we have about 90kg to spare on the rear when we are fully loaded.
     
  10. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Rear loading
    Before fitting a rear rack to your ’van, consider the following:

    image: http://cdn.csuk-solutions.net/uploads/1c/5643823-safe-loading-and-payloads-2.jpg

    [​IMG]
    A1 = existing front axle load
    (before adding on the new rear load)
    A2 = existing rear axle load
    (before adding on the new rear load)
    L = weight of new rear load
    W = wheelbase (the distance between the front and rear axle centre-lines)
    O = overhang (the distance from the rear axle centre to the centre of mass of the new rear load).

    Add the figure for the new rear load, and carry out the following calculations:


    • New front axle load (new A1) = A1 – [L x (O ÷ W)]
    • New rear axle load (new A2) = A2 + L + (A1 – new A1).
    For example, take a ’van with a current front axle load (A1) of 1500kg and a rear axle load (A2) of 2000kg (see diagram). The scooter and its rack have a total mass of 150kg, the vehicle’s wheelbase (W) is 3000mm and the overhang (O) is 1000mm. Put those figures into the above equations and the new front axle load will be: 1500kg – [150 x (1000 ÷ 3000)]. This works out at 1500 – 49.95 which is a new front axle load of 1450.05kg. Now that we have a new A1 figure, we can move on to the second calculation to get the new rear axle load: 2000 + 150 + (1500 – 1450.05) is a new load of 2199.95kg. In other words, the scooter and rack would add nearly 200kg to the back axle, while taking almost 50kg off the front axle. You will need to compare these figures to the maximum axle loadings shown on the vehicle plate. If your new rear axle load is greater than that on the plate, then you cannot fit the rack and motor scooter.
     
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  11. Adrian1

    Adrian1 Funster

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    I will give my vote to the hydra lift on a swift sundance 630g with long overhang carry a 650cc motorbike 215kg no problems you forget its a traile (its not) just makes the van longer easy to load as the bed goes to the floor then jacks up there are lots of threads on this item we are of to spain sept with ours
    Hope this helps
     
  12. funflair

    funflair Funster Life Member

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    Good example Geo, also worth bearing in mind that the centre of mass of the scooter and rack will sit off the back of the motorhome by up to 0.5 metre.

    Martin
     
  13. fred flintstone

    fred flintstone Funster

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  14. Chaumo

    Chaumo Funster

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    Thanks everybody for advising of your thoughts and experiences. As with everything, it seems some have good and others bad experiences so I am going to have to make a decision anyway. Not sure if I can do that
     
  15. Wagoneer

    Wagoneer Funster

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    I feel the OP should review his calculations.

    An additional load of 130kg based on a 2400mm overhang (+500mm to the centre of the rack) and a 2900mm wheelbase will lighten the front axle by 130kg and add 260kg to the rear axle.

    My Honda 125 PCX weighs 130kg and is mounted 1000mm behind the rear axle (in garage). This lightens the front axle by 45kg. Driveability seems to be unaffected by the additional load.

    I think SV Tech apply a rule of thumb with regard to the acceptable lightening of the front axle, based on a % reduction of the existing axle weight measured on a weighbridge.
     
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