scarborough overnight (2 Viewers)

[PeteH]

And what is common sense to one is nonsense to another

In this case, though, there is solid evidence that the law and common sense are the same. As @John & Joan reminded us a month ago, the legislation in question arose as a direct result of the need to prevent destruction of the countryside and the dangers posed by sanitary issues.

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[GJH]

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Perfectly straightforward. The law and common sense are perfectly co-existent in this case

 

[PeteH]

Perfectly straightforward. The law and common sense are perfectly co-existent in this case

Ok I surrender! I have absolutely no idea what your on about?

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[pigginchilli]

Remind me not to start another simple thread that becomes so very complicated, all very informative though, maybe we should buy a house close to the beach and sell our van.

 

[pigginchilli]

sorry that should read beach hut.

 

[Reallyretired]

I think Bridlington beach is brilliant for dogs, anywhere south of the Spa is unrestricted off the lead running about. When I go there I stay in my brothers chalet very close to the beach, but Im pretty sure that close to there is a touring caravan site, and a little further inland an industrial estate (not the Carnaby one but the next one nearer the sea) where I'm sure you could overnight with no problem. You would need to drive to the beach for the dogs of course but that would be the work of minutes.

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[GJH]

Ok I surrender! I have absolutely no idea what your on about?

Your earlier post tried to claim that because you don't like what the law says that common sense should be used. My reply pointed out that what is common sense to one (especially when it is merely used to try to justify an otherwise unjustifiable position) is not common sense to another. Furthermore the law, in this case, is common sense because it was created to avoid destruction of the countryside and the dangers posed by sanitary issues.

 

[PeteH]

I think Bridlington beach is brilliant for dogs, anywhere south of the Spa is unrestricted off the lead running about. When I go there I stay in my brothers chalet very close to the beach, but Im pretty sure that close to there is a touring caravan site, and a little further inland an industrial estate (not the Carnaby one but the next one nearer the sea) where I'm sure you could overnight with no problem. You would need to drive to the beach for the dogs of course but that would be the work of minutes.

The actual Area (1st May to End of Sept) is South of where the Boat Launch Ramp is. North of that Dogs are Barred. On the North Beach the area Is to the North Side of Limekiln Lane. Pretty much Below the North Beach Car Park. Any where south of that is barred. During the winter Months Most of the beach can be used.

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Pete.

 

[PeteH]

Furthermore the law, in this case, is common sense because it was created to avoid destruction of the countryside and the dangers posed by sanitary issues.

??. Sorry But cannot see what that had to do with my personal opinion, that there are far too many pettifogging rules overseen by over zealous "jobsworths"!. After all we are NOT talking Camping grounds. We are discussing Parking! and the temporary use of the Habitation facilities in a Motor-home. No one least of all me is advocating dumping poo!.

Pete

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[GJH]

??. Sorry But cannot see what that had to do with my personal opinion, that there are far too many pettifogging rules overseen by over zealous "jobsworths"!. After all we are NOT talking Camping grounds. We are discussing Parking! and the temporary use of the Habitation facilities in a Motor-home. No one least of all me is advocating dumping poo!.

Pete

That is the point, we are discussing camping, not merely parking. Whether anyone likes it or not, in the UK camping and parking are two different things. Under the 1960 Act (S1(4)) as soon as you start using a vehicle for human habitation then the usage of the land is as a caravan site.

 

[Big Nick]

I think the bottom line is use common sense, be respectful of your surroundings and be prepared to be moved on/fined in Scarborough. These laws are brought in because some take the pee and I think I'd be hacked off if I went to visit a town and could not park because of people camping in the car parks.

If I want to visit a town I use a CL on a bus route albeit have just fitted a bike rack so this isn't as important now

Personally I wouldn't stay in towns overnight in the UK anyway and only wild out in the countryside in locations as remote as I can get to and would move on immediately if asked ensuring I left nothing behind to blight the countryside

 

[PeteH]

That is the point, we are discussing camping, not merely parking. Whether anyone likes it or not, in the UK camping and parking are two different things. Under the 1960 Act (S1(4)) as soon as you start using a vehicle for human habitation then the usage of the land is as a caravan site.

Which, again in my personal view, is an overuse of power by small minded "officialdom" (paid and unpaid) in their ever increasing "need" to control all aspects of life, down to the minutest detail. The same one`s who over many years have closed so many Laybys, for example, that it is now becoming difficult to find places for a HGV driver to take a Tacho break, even though not to so do is an offence, and tiredness, as we are always being advised "Can Kill". I certainly only very rarely "Wild" in any form. usually, when circumstances beyond my control dictate it.

For example: I am currently looking at a run South later this month, where because of timing, it could be necessary to "overnight" somewhere, such places are hard to find, most require detours of several miles on minor roads to find, bearing in mind it will be dark too. So a "Car Park" under those circumstances could be an answer, a few hours kip and a fresh start. BUT under those general rules as you outline, such a stop could be potentially illegal, attracting a large fine and be difficult if not impossible to ascertain until one arrives tired. The choice then becomes, risk the financial penalty OR drive tired to a further destination, bearing in mind that the same situation my arise there!.

A modicum of flexibility would certainly assist in that area!. But is not forthcoming in the current "real world" of bureaucratic nonsense. (back to the EU debate!)

Pete

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[GJH]

Which, again in my personal view, is an overuse of power by small minded "officialdom" (paid and unpaid) in their ever increasing "need" to control all aspects of life, down to the minutest detail. The same one`s who over many years have closed so many Laybys, for example, that it is now becoming difficult to find places for a HGV driver to take a Tacho break, even though not to so do is an offence, and tiredness, as we are always being advised "Can Kill". I certainly only very rarely "Wild" in any form. usually, when circumstances beyond my control dictate it.

For example: I am currently looking at a run South later this month, where because of timing, it could be necessary to "overnight" somewhere, such places are hard to find, most require detours of several miles on minor roads to find, bearing in mind it will be dark too. So a "Car Park" under those circumstances could be an answer, a few hours kip and a fresh start. BUT under those general rules as you outline, such a stop could be potentially illegal, attracting a large fine and be difficult if not impossible to ascertain until one arrives tired. The choice then becomes, risk the financial penalty OR drive tired to a further destination, bearing in mind that the same situation my arise there!.

A modicum of flexibility would certainly assist in that area!. But is not forthcoming in the current "real world" of bureaucratic nonsense. (back to the EU debate!)

Pete

Then, as I suggested last night, if you don't like the law being as it is you could always do something constructive to get it changed.

That won't happen though will it? Much easier to pretend that "small minded "officialdom"" exists and blame somebody else.

We will also be travelling south later this year. We will use a THS to stop overnight on the way, a choice of several which took very little effort to find and won't take us far out of our way at all. If we had to be on a direct route we could stay at a MSA.
No risk of a financial penalty, no driving tired to our destination and showing a modicum of flexibility instead of wanting somebody else to do it for us.

 

[PeteH]

pretend that "small minded "officialdom"" exists and blame somebody else.

Not pretend. I KNOW they exist!. End of!. I could but will not Itemise multiple occasions. I know what I believe and have no intention of backing off

Conversation CLOSED.

 

[GJH]

Not pretend. I KNOW they exist!. End of!. I could but will not Itemise multiple occasions. I know what I believe and have no intention of backing off

Conversation CLOSED.

Q.E.D.

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[PeteH]

My mates wife is like that. Always the last word!

 

[pigginchilli]

I started so i will finish. thank you and goodnight.

 

[Cliffy38]

I stayed in Scarborough last year and although you can park on marine drive during the day there is no overnight camping. However down at the sealife centre, north bay, you can park overnight. My wife found this out when we parked at site and she decided to have a bike ride. So the following night us, and another 29 motorhomes were parked just yards from the sea. You had to leave by 9 or10 the following morning unless you wanted to pay. But free otherwise.

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[GJH]

I stayed in Scarborough last year and although you can park on marine drive during the day there is no overnight camping. However down at the sealife centre, north bay, you can park overnight. My wife found this out when we parked at site and she decided to have a bike ride. So the following night us, and another 29 motorhomes were parked just yards from the sea. You had to leave by 9 or10 the following morning unless you wanted to pay. But free otherwise.

Please see post #47 above and posts #2 and #4 on This Thread. You might get away with camping at the sea life centre (Scalby Mills car park) but officially it is banned and you may find you wake up to a fine.

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
A lot of (Not all) Industrial Estates are covered by CCTV,for security purposes,so you "Might",just might,get a fine through the post. Some are a magnate for thieves and the traffic police swing by now and again,so,OK to park on ? It would not be for me,nowadays.
Tea Bag

 

[chaser]

Is there a tesco in Scarborough? Usually ok with mhs.

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[Cockers]

I love burnham on sea, well Brean sands, park on the beach all day for £7 let the dogs run free wonderful place to chill and watch the world go by.

 

[Greytop]

I would like to make a couple of comments as I actually live in Scarborough.
At the present moment you will be OK parking on the marine drive, but for how long this will be the case I don't know. There have been legal arguments regarding the legality of the signs (because no consultation was carried out) and as far as I am aware nobody will be prosecuted at this present time for parking on the drive. Nobody has been successfully prosecuted over the last 18 months as far as I am aware. Over the last 18 months there have been two occasions where there have been mass "sleep overs" on the marine drive. The intention to do so was published in the newspaper and the council were informed of the date it would occur. No action was taken.

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http://nyenquirer.uk/sbc-firing-blanks/

Regarding Scalby Mills car park at the Sea life centre. There is no specific permission to park there but it is condoned by the council and everyday summer and winter you will find Motorhomes parked there and there has never been a ticket issued. This is because the Scarborough council are happy to have Motorhomes there if it keeps them away from the Marine Drive and in town.
As a Motorhome owner myself I would certainly prefer to park there anyway as it is quiet, secure, overlooking the sea and next door to a pub serving real ales. If you park on the Marine Drive you are likely to be woken up during the night by boy racers using the drive as a racing track.

 

[GJH]

I would like to make a couple of comments as I actually live in Scarborough.
At the present moment you will be OK parking on the marine drive, but for how long this will be the case I don't know. There have been legal arguments regarding the legality of the signs (because no consultation was carried out) and as far as I am aware nobody will be prosecuted at this present time for parking on the drive. Nobody has been successfully prosecuted over the last 18 months as far as I am aware. Over the last 18 months there have been two occasions where there have been mass "sleep overs" on the marine drive. The intention to do so was published in the newspaper and the council were informed of the date it would occur. No action was taken.

Broken Link Removed



http://nyenquirer.uk/sbc-firing-blanks/

Regarding Scalby Mills car park at the Sea life centre. There is no specific permission to park there but it is condoned by the council and everyday summer and winter you will find Motorhomes parked there and there has never been a ticket issued. This is because the Scarborough council are happy to have Motorhomes there if it keeps them away from the Marine Drive and in town.
As a Motorhome owner myself I would certainly prefer to park there anyway as it is quiet, secure, overlooking the sea and next door to a pub serving real ales. If you park on the Marine Drive you are likely to be woken up during the night by boy racers using the drive as a racing track.

Whether NYCC or SBC will actually enforce the parking orders is up to them but they are fully legal. The councils certainly won't be daft enough to get caught up in any fishing stunt that anyone promotes.
As for Strangeway, please see Broken Link Removed.

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[32143]

Is there a tesco in Scarborough? Usually ok with mhs.

The Tesco is in the Town, small car park, very tight for cars, wouldn't even take our pvc in just to shop as it's very tight on the roads. It's 24 hours though so good for supplies when on foot.

Lin

 

[Greytop]

Whether NYCC or SBC will actually enforce the parking orders is up to them but they are fully legal. The councils certainly won't be daft enough to get caught up in any fishing stunt that anyone promotes.
As for Strangeway, please see Broken Link Removed.

That is totally wrong. Regarding Scalby Mills car park as I said there is no permission granted. But equally so there is not one sign that says the parking of Motorhomes overnight is prohibited. Therefore how on earth could the council issue a ticket. It would be the same as issuing a parking ticket for a car parked on a road where parking was not prohibited by any signage.

 

[GJH]

That is totally wrong. Regarding Scalby Mills car park as I said there is no permission granted. But equally so there is not one sign that says the parking of Motorhomes overnight is prohibited. Therefore how on earth could the council issue a ticket. It would be the same as issuing a parking ticket for a car parked on a road where parking was not prohibited by any signage.

As I keep pointing out on threads on this sort of subject, there doesn't have to be a sign that says the parking of Motorhomes overnight is prohibited. How many car parks have signs spelling out every restriction in the parking order governing them? Few, if any at all.

What matters is what the parking order says and, often enough, signs simply say something like "Park in compliance with the current parking order", which is all that is required.

It is certainly not like parking on a road because the signage for on street parking is controlled by The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions acts. There is no equivalent legislation governing signage in car parks. That is one of the fundamental aspects of this subject that Strangeway either fails to grasp or chooses to ignore.

The aspects of the current order covering Scalby Mills car park are summarised Here. Note "No sleeping or overnight camping".

The relevant wording in The Borough of Scarborough (Off-Street Parking Places) Order 2012 is at 10(2):

No person shall use any part of a parking place or any vehicle parked in a parking place-
(a) for sleeping or camping or cooking; or
(b) for the purpose of servicing or washing any vehicle or part thereof other than is reasonably necessary to enable that vehicle to depart from the parking place.

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[chaser]

As I keep pointing out on threads on this sort of subject, there doesn't have to be a sign that says the parking of Motorhomes overnight is prohibited. How many car parks have signs spelling out every restriction in the parking order governing them? Few, if any at all.

What matters is what the parking order says and, often enough, signs simply say something like "Park in compliance with the current parking order", which is all that is required.

It is certainly not like parking on a road because the signage for on street parking is controlled by The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions acts. There is no equivalent legislation governing signage in car parks. That is one of the fundamental aspects of this subject that Strangeway either fails to grasp or chooses to ignore.

The aspects of the current order covering Scalby Mills car park are summarised Here. Note "No sleeping or overnight camping".

The relevant wording in The Borough of Scarborough (Off-Street Parking Places) Order 2012 is at 10(2):

Not wishing to argue with you , but you keep saying the same thing, can't imagine why anyone has nothing better to do than keep looking through parking laws, if someone comes to a car park they aren't used to, how the hell are they supposed to know the current parking order.

 

[GJH]

Not wishing to argue with you , but you keep saying the same thing, can't imagine why anyone has nothing better to do than keep looking through parking laws, if someone comes to a car park they aren't used to, how the hell are they supposed to know the current parking order.

Points in order then

1. I'm interested in parking law because misunderstanding of it dominates so many threads on motorhome forums. I could, of course, not bother and sit back and watch people receive penalty charges because they lack a source of information

2. If someone wants to park somewhere they are unfamiliar with it is up to them to find out what is allowed before they do so, not to just decide it is OK to do what they want to do. We all know (or should), unless we are brand new to motorhome ownership, that we drive vehicles which do not fit with most parking provision in this country and that camping (which is different from parking in the UK) in car parks is only allowed in a few of them. That in itself should be an incentive to find out what is allowed rather than just assuming, shouldn't it?

 

[chaser]

Ok, right I don't know Scarborough but I draw in to this car park they are on about at 6 o clock tonight , no sign saying no motorhomes, or no parking, but there's a sign says park according to the order, how do I find out what the order is, and before you say Internet, I have no iPad and my phone is flat, before I find out , I shall be going anyway.

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