Save money on gas (2 Viewers)

[sinbad1]

I wonder what she has in mind ...

Funny you think you've got a dam good idea, then it suddenly turns into an eye watering nightmere

On second thoughts Jim, I think i'll pass on your sugesstion better safe than sorry

 

[Douglas]

I have had a reply from the seller on ebay, says

" the device is fitted with a cut off valve, I hope this helps"

I sent back

"No not really, can you guaranty that it will not over fill passed the 80%"

I have had no reply

I declare this device unsafe as the claims are unsubstanciated.

Also if you remember I asked the guy who was advocating the use of tyre additive to stop punctures to put details to his claims, he never replied, he was however made a trade member to this site.

I declare his claims as unsubstanciated.

Doug...

 

[Terry]

Hi Jim the gaslow bottles are fitted with a float / cut off valve (if you trust that )The see through bottles are marked with a level indicate line and normal bottles rely on you using the old grey matter :thumb:
It is recommended that only the bottles with a float / cut off valve be refilled at garages but not illegal to fill your own
I would recommend that no matter which way you fill the bottles use your brain (grey matter) in that if your vessel holds say 10 ltrs at 80% never try to put in 11 ltrs just in case your float has stuck
I like the idea of a bleed thingy on the RVs :thumboes this not hiss when filling ?making everyone dive for cover
terry

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[scotjimland]

I like the idea of a bleed thingy on the RVs :thumboes this not hiss when filling ?making everyone dive for cover
terry

it does hiss a bit, about the same noise as using an aerosol, never noticed anyone diving for cover ...

 

[ginge61]

well that valve looks just like what it says a refill valve cant see any way it can tell you how its full etc and if hes selling them it should conform to some standard ??? as you have to have a cert for fitting lpg there is a site of installers cant think where ask one of them but it sounds dodgy to me the insurance companies will love you if it goes wrong no payout think ill go and find some bits in my shed to try and make one looks easy enuff
BOOM BOOM

 

[sinbad1]

Thing is its got what looks like an official CE marking so its either a fake or it is a certified EU product , if it is genuine it puts a big ? as to why it has been certified , in veiw of the dangers of the venting.

Has there been any more feedback from the seller?

Regards

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[olley]

Hi this idea of putting a set amount of gas into a bottle to keep it below the 80% level sounds risky to me, how do you know the bottles empty? How do you know theirs not a litre of oily residue sitting in the bottom?

The only safe I can see is to sit it on some scales and fill until its at the correct weight, doing it that way you could safely fill a half empty bottle.

The biggest danger of overfilling is not I would think, that the bottle might explode as they are extremely strong, but that the liquid level is above the vapour pick up tube, I think its then likely that liquid gas would get to the outlet side of the regulator where it would instantly vaporise, vastly increasing the pressure to your fridge/cooker etc. with possible disasterious results.

Olley

 

[sinbad1]

Hi
Calor and others fill by weight...


Just a thought Jim, if the gas people do it by weight wouldn't it be easier to use digital bathroom scales. knowing the full gas bottle weight you could fill it correctly every time and doesn't have to be empty when you fill it,
Regards

Thanks Olley
Feel better about my earlier post now

 

[Terry]

Hi Olley you open the valve at the top and if no gas/stuff comes out it is empty :thumb: or when the cooker goes out it is also a good indication that it is empty :thumb:
terry

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[olley]

Hi terry, no you assume its empty, doesn't mean to say their isn't some non-volatile substance laying in the bottom.

It works for you and as far as I am concerned that's OK. I stay on M/W aires and some say that's risky, each to his own poison.

Olley

 

[bobandjanie]

Hi Olley you open the valve at the top and if no gas/stuff comes out it is empty :thumb: or when the cooker goes out it is also a good indication that it is empty :thumb:
terry

Hi Terry, as you know I am a Gaslow lover, I have 2 x 11kg bottles, my cooker went off, but when I filled that bottle I did not get 19lts in it, the way you say I should get 22lts. Maybe my valve is a bit on the sharp side, and shuts off early, or maybe the bottle after 2 years is not really empty. After all Calor weight the bottles, they dont wack 26ltrs in a 13kg bottle. oh: Bob.

 

[Terry]

Hi Bob and Olley, there is nothing to stop you standing or tipping them over to let anything that may have gathered in the bottom out :thumb: I may even try that as well as giving it a good shake with the valve open that I do.I usually keep a couple of empty ones (with valve open )in the garage so now I will turn them on there head as another visual reminder that they are empty along with the plastic plug removed Also I can put in 7.8 ltrs in but only ever put in 7 ltrs so well in my 80% limit :thumb:
As you say Bob your float/cut off may be a bit keen but that is not a bad thing it just means filling up more often
I would think calor both weigh and measure when filling bottles,a sort of double check? Then again it may just be on weight as I have seen partially full bottles being replaced by people who want to go away with a full bottle
terry

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[Douglas]

Thing is its got what looks like an official CE marking so its either a fake or it is a certified EU product , if it is genuine it puts a big ? as to why it has been certified , in veiw of the dangers of the venting.

Has there been any more feedback from the seller?

Regards

It looks to me that the CE mark is on the stop valve. so it might well be that the stop valve is valid but not the use that its put to.

Again to me it looks like some one has put together 3 separate things:

1/ A bottle connector.
2/ A stop valve/relief valve.
3/ A refill connector.

 

[Wildman]

Caveat emptor

despite repeated requests for more information nothing has been received. From someone who bought one I get the following information.
It does not appear to be particularly well built, the cutoff valve was designed for WATER, so CE mark conforms to WATER and not gas use. A good idea but will continue to stick to my manual well built adaptor. In view of the repeated claims of the possibility of residue in the bottom of bottles I have opened up a few. and despite digging around in the bottom with a long rod nothing has been found. Though I am sure it may occasionally happen when someone use the wrong sort of hose and the black oily residue is formed in the hose. Will that pass back through the regulator, don't know how they work so cannot comment. Bottles are I am sure cleaned and repainted before refilling on a regular basis by calor and other companies so why not just exchange bottles every now and then. It is obviously a matter of personal choice and not something I would encourage anyone to do, however I would not discourage them either if they are confident in what they are doing. The more people that do it the more likely it is to be made illegal and I wouldn't want that, hee hee

 

[Andy - V8 Diesel]

Hi there wildman glad i read youur post i was going to buy one of these dont think i will bother now:thumb:
I will buy one of the original type have you any idea of the best place to get one Thanks:thumb:

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[hilldweller]

It is obviously a matter of personal choice and not something I would encourage anyone to do

Just to bring a smile to your face....

I was trying to do a swap for a yellow butane cylinder and tried a local LPG place knowing they did not do that type but asked "can you fill a butane cylinder ?".

"Only if it has this connection....."

And he pulled out a length of copper pipe - one end a calorgas screw the other end a bayonet filler. I've no idea now he would have do the job, safety wise.

 

[Wildman]

Just to bring a smile to your face....

I was trying to do a swap for a yellow butane cylinder and tried a local LPG place knowing they did not do that type but asked "can you fill a butane cylinder ?".

"Only if it has this connection....."

And he pulled out a length of copper pipe - one end a calorgas screw the other end a bayonet filler. I've no idea now he would have do the job, safety wise.

sounds like he has one of the old connectors similar in use to the one I use. wonder how many bottles a week he fills, hee hee

 

[wasp]

Just to let you know I have bought one of these adaptors and Geo is right ,the device looks like its home made and the overfill protection device is a 6 bar pressure relief valve I will not use it until I have looked into the safety aspect of it ,so buyer beware it cost me £36.00and I may have wasted my moiney dont do the same .
Just to note I am a registered gas installer and I definitely will NOT use this device until I check it

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[wasp]

6 Bar just in case you dont know is 90 lbs psi in old money not sure what the metric equivalent is

 

[hilldweller]

sounds like he has one of the old connectors similar in use to the one I use. wonder how many bottles a week he fills, hee hee

Pass.

It's a back street workshop where the main business is doing vehicle LPG conversions. So he may well know what he is doing.

 

[Terry]

Hi Wasp, I have the older type adapter and a brain but if you get an empty bottle and fill it to the required 80 % (you can go to 87 % acording to calor)If the gas shuts off then it is working and if not it is back to the drawing board Rather too simplistic for some but at lest we get an idea let us know how you get on :thumb:
terry
2 ltrs gas = 1 kg

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[wurdsmiff]

Refilling butane???

Hi All,
I've been thru 6 pages of this thread and one thing strikes me very forcibly. There is not one definitive reply. Nobody has written - "this is what happens, this is what is required, this is how it works, this is how it should be done, this method is safe!"

I'm thinking that just maybe this process should be left to the experts. Alternatively get refillable bottles.

Have a safe journey!

 

[Terry]

Hi All,
I've been thru 6 pages of this thread and one thing strikes me very forcibly. There is not one definitive reply. Nobody has written - "this is what happens, this is what is required, this is how it works, this is how it should be done, this method is safe!"

I'm thinking that just maybe this process should be left to the experts. Alternatively get refillable bottles.

Have a safe journey!

Hi Wurdsmiff,After you have read about 100 pages (on here and mhf plus others)you will still come to the same conclusion You must have read how to use them safely and how / what not to do ? As up to now I have still not read of one indecent that has been put down to using the adapters :thumb: but I read weekly if not daily about leaky pipes / joints on the other refillable systems
My self, I am currently using my 3 rd fill this year (shortly on my 4 th ) so it has paid for itself yet again this year.:thumb:
terry

 

[Douglas]

Just to clear up the assumption/ belief that there is residue of some kind in gas bottles.

I have in the passed re-use the larger size of gas bottles for other purposes than holding gas.

I have cut them up with angle grinders, I have cut them up with oxyacetylene and I have never seen anything in the bottle other than a few bits of metal Left over from the welding or cutting process.

Now thats not to say that there is never any residue but in about 40 or 50 instances there has been none.

I bet got the hairs on the back of your head standing up!! (horses for courses)

Doug...

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[Tony Lee]

wurdsmiff, reason for that is that no true expert would comment on a public forum like this one, other than to give the straight facts and recommend against the practice. Other responsible RVers would also be very reluctant to recommend a practice to others as being safe/legal, even if they do refill their own bottles using unapproved methods.

That leaves just those who are unwise enough to give advice in ignorance of the legal and practical situation and worse, in ignorance of the level of experience and knowledge of those reading the "advice"

 

[derekfaeberwick]

New thread on t'other side about dodgy relief valves on gasflow cylinders. Prefer D.I.Y. myself.

 

[garfield]

6kg of lpg is at the same pressure as 13kg at the same tempreture, so a cut of pressure switch could not work it would not know the differance between a 6kg bottle or 13kg.

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[dazzer]

Hi Bob and Olley, there is nothing to stop you standing or tipping them over to let anything that may have gathered in the bottom out :thumb: I may even try that as well as giving it a good shake with the valve open that I do.I usually keep a couple of empty ones (with valve open )in the garage so now I will turn them on there head as another visual reminder that they are empty along with the plastic plug removed Also I can put in 7.8 ltrs in but only ever put in 7 ltrs so well in my 80% limit :thumb:
As you say Bob your float/cut off may be a bit keen but that is not a bad thing it just means filling up more often
I would think calor both weigh and measure when filling bottles,a sort of double check? Then again it may just be on weight as I have seen partially full bottles being replaced by people who want to go away with a full bottle
terry

Hi Terry

Do you leave empty bottle with the valves open in your garage then?? You should never let the bottle become totally empty (i.e. zero pressure) and leave the valves open as this will allow air to circulate into the bottle and bring water vapour into the inside of the cylinder where rust will start to form and gradually reduce the strength of the cylinder. As the rust will cling to the sides you will have no idea this is happening until you fill it up and it goes bang.

This is an extreme example but it does happen. Make sure there is always a little bit left in and keep the valve closed as air cannot enter a pressurised container making the chances of rusting from the inside out very small indeed.

By the way I have no problem filling up gas bottles, just use the right gear and common sense :thumb:. Filling us gas lighters is more likely to result in injury than filling a LPG cylinder with the correct equipment.