Sail and Trail, Newark. My Experience.

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by jb0371, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. jb0371

    jb0371 Read Only Funster

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    Disclaimer (for the lefties on the forum): In no way does this post have anything bad to say about GAS IT refillable bottles or the company (they where very helpful as normal), also this is a true account, so no posts about libel or slander or any of that malarky.

    Background on myself, before the doomsayers reckon I shouldnt be fitting my own gas system - Worked in engineering since I was 16 in the automotive and water meter industries, worked offshore as a service technician on lifeboats and winches and now back in the pharmacutical industry, I have also renovated my own house redoing the electrics and fitting oil central heating.

    So now for the story, grab a beer and prepare to be entertained with laughter and Oh my God moments.

    Whilst at the Newark sjow the other week we finally bit the bullet and brought a 2nd bottle for our GAS IT system. So I asked about putting in a changeover valve as well, I mentioned that I had a 37mbar regulator, so would that work, the first guy to be fair didnt know, so he called his mate over who said it would be fine (I did explain the 37mbar regulator to him as well). As they didnt have enough pig tails they gave me the one of off the display.

    So a couple of weeks ago I finally got around to fitting it, as those of you that may have done this job, you do need to prepare yourself, as space is tight and you need to plan which union to tighten up first as if you do the wrong one first you will have to undo some to redo the right one. Being a typical bloke your now expecting me to not read the changeover valve literature, well I did as it is a gas system and I aint that stupid. Remember the bit about 37mbar system, well the opening line in the literature, was this valve works between 30 mbar and 35 mbar.

    So I thought it best to contact Sail and Trail, I rang them over 2 weeks, and left at least 2 voicemails and 1 email, know you would have thought they would get back to me as it is quite a serious cock up, I rang GAS IT and got through straight away, and they said catagoricly that the changeover valve would not work on my system and they shouldnt have told me it would, as at best my appliances wouldnt work and at worst it could a flame thrower as soon as we turn the oven on. I brought from GAS IT a brass manifold that would do the job and it would be a manual changeover system now (so be it, no great dramas, plus £20 cheaper).

    As luck would have it I finally got through to Sail and Trail the next day and finallyt got to spoke tone of the brother who own it called Luke. I never swore or called into question his parentage, but did express my outrage that his staff had given me wrong advice that could have had potentially lethal results, he didnt really seem to be that bothered about it (my own personal thought). And if I returned the valve he would give me a refund.

    As the brass fitting came I then installed the 2nd bottle finally got to attaching the pig tails only to find the tail that had been the display one had no O rings on it.

    So back on the phone to my mate Luke, who did apologise and after discussing which hose it was he was just going to send me out a new pig tail. Fair enough.

    Well it came to today, so I opened it up only to find he has sent me a POL assembly hose. Back on the phone, and even though I was angry I never raised my voice but just called him incompetent and that I had lost all confidence in him, he just put the phone down on me.

    So at the Theford bash I will be donating the hose to the charity raffle. And I will be going down the plumbers merchant for a couple of o rings.

    I am fairly sure that they couldnt get themselves laid in a brothel.
     
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  2. jonandshell

    jonandshell Funster

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    I'll see if there is any of my mad uncle Matt's valium left Jeff!:)
     
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  3. Lenny HB

    Lenny HB Funster

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    Make sure you get the correct O rings for gas, standard neropean ones aren't suitable.
     
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  4. Gromett

    Gromett Funster

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    I buy my stuff direct from Gasit. Those guys know their stuff, very helpful and at prices you can't sniff at.
     
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  5. Geordies

    Geordies Funster

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    A frustrating episode for you, but looking on the positive side at least Snail and Trail didn't try and feed you any Bullsh*t, ie giving a crazy reason as to why they sold you the wrong part, such as "are you using it in France, then you'll need a 37mB connector" or the like.

    I can forgive mistakes, it's when Companies try and Bullsh*t you when they are clearly in the wrong that makes me mad !!!
     
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  6. PeteH

    PeteH Funster

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    Yeh quite "smelly" that LPG "odour"?:whistle::whistle::D:D
     
  7. dave newell lvs

    dave newell lvs Trader-Vehicle Services

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    I'm a bit baffled by the "37mbar" setup you have. Normally 37 mbar regulators are bottle mounted so would have no pigtails. The auto changeover system takes full bottle pressure (6 Bar approx) via the aforementioned pigtails and would usually be connected to the input of a bulkhead mounted regulator which drops the pressure to 30 mbar, the output pressure of the regulator has no bearing on the changeover unit as that works on full bottle pressure. The only alternative I know of is a combined auto changeover and regulator but that simply does away with the joint between the two items. Can you identify the parts you were originally sold on the Gasit website for clarity please.

    D.
     
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  8. jb0371

    jb0371 Read Only Funster

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    My motorhome is an 03 autotrail, that came with just a normal propane red regulator, so I originally just bought a 1 bottle gas it system with a pol adaptor that the reg screwed into that in turn screwed into the gas it bottle, so with the new bottle I removed the pol adaptor and just fitted the normal pig tails, that now screw into a brass manifold that the reg also fits into.
    http://www.gasit.co.uk/pol-bulk-head-manifold-for-2-bottles.html
     
  9. DuxDeluxe

    DuxDeluxe Funster Life Member

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    Well, I gave it a "like" for the way the story was told, not the story itself. There are some people around, and they breed......

    Also gave a "like" for the flat coated retrievers......
     
  10. SteveandDenise

    SteveandDenise Funster

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    I had some dealings with Sail & Trail bought a genny from them proper nightmare. They should stick to selling toilet rolls they are experts on that subject.
     
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  11. DuxDeluxe

    DuxDeluxe Funster Life Member

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    Try replenishing the stenching agent used in an LNG tanker..... Waterproof disposal overalls, plastic gloves, breathing masks everything. Throw all away afterwards and after half a dozen showers you still stink. Odour threshold of the methyl mercaptan is about 2 parts per Billion!!
     
  12. DuxDeluxe

    DuxDeluxe Funster Life Member

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    That is where I got my stuff from. Good service
     
  13. dave newell lvs

    dave newell lvs Trader-Vehicle Services

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    So what was the original changeover unit that Sail and Trail sold you? So far my take is that you didn't explain clearly enough what you had and how you wanted to set it all up, I only say this because you haven't explained it clearly here either.

    D.
     
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  14. PeteH

    PeteH Funster

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    Tell me about it!. I used to do Statuary internal examination of Calor`s Road Fleet and Static 10 year inspections!. This was AFTER they had been "gas freed", ventilated and cleaned!.

    My wife would not allow me in the house until I stripped and put my gear in the washing machine, and THEN I had to take one or two showers before the stench faded enough to be allowed in the lounge!!!.

    Pete
     
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  15. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    sorry to say this.. don't mean to sound harsh.. (and I'm not a doomsayer) but I've come to that conclusion..

    if you don't understand how a gas changeover valve works nor what is required to install it with twin bottles, I suggest you ask a qualified LPG gas fitter or have them do it.

    this is how it is connected.. Gaslow or Gasit .. makes no odds .. same

    as you can see .. as Dave explained, the changeover valve has full bottle pressure

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  16. jb0371

    jb0371 Read Only Funster

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    Ok, I fully understand how a gas change over works, and from the excellent picture below the big black box states EXISTING 30MBAR REGULATOR. As stated in my post I have a 37MBAR REGULATOR, they are not interchangeable, I spoke at lenght to the sales men asking will the changeover valve he was selling me, work with a normal propane regulator remembering that it is 37mbar, which he said yes. What he should have told me was no it will not work as the pressures in motorhome changed around 2005 ish from 37mbar (red regulator) to 30mbar (something like in the picture below) but you can get a brass manifold that will work manually. See the link

    http://www.gasit.co.uk/pol-bulk-head-manifold-for-2-bottles.html

    Does that it make it any clearer?


    [​IMG]

    So this is my system (minus the 2nd pig tail as the o rings where missing) just waiting a delivery from gas it. i have put all the pipes in a protective shroud to protect against rubbing and road dirt (esp the main filling hose). As you can see int he background the red 37mbar regulator screws into the brass manifold.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. tonyidle

    tonyidle Funster

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    I think you might have asked the wrong question. The changeover valve (whatever you stick on the end of it) is at the current tank / bottle pressure. It does not care what device it feeds. It's the equipment in the van that is affected by regulator pressure so the question should probably be 'will a 37mb regulator connect directly to the changeover unit'. Incidentally the van would be fine with the new-style regulator as it's already designed to cope with the lower pressure of butane regulators.
     
  18. Huwmari

    Huwmari Funster

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    So do we - this is the second van in which we have had a GASIT system and their staff have been fantastically helpful.
     
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  19. Badknee

    Badknee Funster

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    We had a look at the GasIt system at Peterborough last year but decided not to buy it from a dealer and get it straight from GasIt, I'm glad we did.
     
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  20. jb0371

    jb0371 Read Only Funster

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    I brought the first bottle from gas it, who cant be more helpful or do enough, stupidly we just brought it from the show as we keep on talking about it but never got around to it. So we bit the bullet, quite literally.

    All well that ends well, should get o rings from gas it tomorrow, then fit, fill and check unions, then forget.
     
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