S.o.r.n warning dvla type

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by tofo, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. tofo

    tofo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    6,599
    Likes Received:
    6,228
    Location:
    Kirby cross further from londin
    This morning a truck pulls up dvla/ vosa ones

    Turned up to take away an untaxed car

    On private land at the back of some houses

    Owner comes out tells em it's on private land so leave it

    Seems if it's not sorn even on private land

    It gets taken away

    Mind they did let the owner trash it first with a sledge nammer

    So be warned if it's off the road get your sorn done

    :thumb::thumb::thumb:
     
  2. Phill D

    Phill D

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    4,414
    Likes Received:
    4,632
    Location:
    South Wales
    similar thing happened near us a week or so ago, clamp on a small van and usual notice on screen, parked on a private lane ( leading to ours and 3 other properties ) not an inconvenience really just been there about 18 months.

    lifting truck turns up to take it away, owner and operator have a discussion, they unclamp it and drive away without the van.

    i had assumed he must have taxed it... but nope. still untaxed and left alone.

    i can only assume its because it is on a private lane.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. bungy

    bungy Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    4,127
    Location:
    Welsh marches
    if the land was within the boundary of one of the houses not just a piece of land owned by someone, then that is not right!!

    a FOI request to DVLA (found with Google) about these extra powers was answered as below

    "The exceptions to the expanded enforcement powers state that vehicles parked on land associated with a house or a block of flats cannot be wheel clamped or impounded. This applies for example, to private driveways, garages and allocated parking bays. Also vehicles kept by a motor trader or vehicle tester at a business premise cannot be wheelclamped or impounded"
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    9,248
    Likes Received:
    5,199
    Location:
    East Sussex 01-580-881288
    Vehicles part exchanged should be notified to the DVLA by the registered keeper as being 'in the trade' and the garage named.

    You should not leave it up to the dealer to do, he should tear off the reporting slip, give it to you to complete and send and keep the V5

    Peter
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Wildman

    Wildman Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    15,458
    Likes Received:
    8,598
    Location:
    Ilfracombe, Devon
    I don't see a problem, I thought that was the idea of a SORN notice and it costs nowt.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,709
    Likes Received:
    3,214
    Location:
    Eastbourne East Sussex
    I too thought that was the idea of a SORN.
    You cannot have a sorn'ed vehicle on a public road so therefore I assume it must be kept on private land. If it has not been SORNed then that must be an offence wherever it is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Minxy Girl

    Minxy Girl Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    Messages:
    8,601
    Likes Received:
    9,992
    Location:
    E Yorks
    Quote from the DVLA website:

    So, it implies that if you keep you vehicle even on private land you MUST still make a SORN declaration, that's always been my understanding too. The ONLY exception to this was some older vehicles which were owned, but not used on the road, prior to the SORN declarations coming into force.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. DeuceBG

    DeuceBG Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    432
    Location:
    Lincoln
    I wasn't aware they could remove a vehicle from private land if it's neither taxed nor on SORN.
    I was aware that, under the recent rule changes regarding Continuous Insurance, a vehicle that is currently taxed must also remain insured regardless of whether it was being used on the roads.
    If the insurance was allowed to lapse then that vehicle MUST be placed on SORN and the tax surrendered otherwise a hefty fine could ensue.
    This affected the Biker community probably more than most because, even though some do not use their machines over the winter and choose to cancel the insurance during that spell, they often don't bother to surrender the tax as the refund is fairly nominal.
    It all adds to the annual paperwork but after October 14 we'll not have to worry about applying for and displaying tax discs as they're being discontinued.
    God knows what I'll put in my new colour coded magnetic holder then.......:Doh:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,484
    Likes Received:
    16,967
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    if a vehicle is kept on private land and NOT sorned a statutory fine will be issued by DVLA along with a claim for back duty to the last day of the last tax disc.

    I speak from experience, not hearsay.

    also {if i recall correctly).....a vehicle which is uninsured must also be declared off road....even if it is taxed and the disc surrendered for a refund
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. tofo

    tofo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    6,599
    Likes Received:
    6,228
    Location:
    Kirby cross further from londin
    The land in question is a concrete area

    As you will find in many estates of the 1970s

    Accessed by the residents through

    A road way not owned by any authority

    But is the property of the residents/developer

    With assigned parking spaces that are not marked

    Also 3 blocks of garages

    The car in question was lifted and removed

    So the rights and wrongs have gone with the vosa people

    I agree it dosnt seem right, personally I would of sorned it

    As it became uninsured/taxed

    Seems a harsh stick to beat the honest folk with

    When it's idiots that use uninsured /unroadworthy vehicles
    That cause the problem

    So I think it's in our general favour but not the individuals

    :thumb::thumb::thumb:
     
  11. bungy

    bungy Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    4,127
    Location:
    Welsh marches
    there is two thing here

    one is the SORN, and most know that is a requirement if not taxed and in its self an offence...however....

    the main point for me is whether DVLA/VOSA (or more than likely a sub contractor agent) have the right to remove an untaxed or sorned vehicle from private property, which seems to be the start point of this thread, and the answer to that is no unless of course it doesnt meet the following criteria

    "The exceptions to the expanded enforcement powers state that vehicles
    parked on land associated with a house or a block of flats cannot be
    wheel clamped or impounded. This applies for example, to private
    driveways, garages and allocated parking bays. Also vehicles kept by a
    motor trader or vehicle tester at a business premise cannot be
    wheelclamped or impounded."

    which may well be the case in the OP...but if it isnt, then the DVLA agents were effectively in the process of trespassing with the intent to steal a vehicle...upto the point the owner let them take it away post sledge hammering!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    29,484
    Likes Received:
    16,967
    Location:
    YO11 2BD
    could also have been ignoring any correspondence from DVLA, of which there would have been in the form of penalties etc, regarding not being sorned which would make it an abandoned vehicle and legally removable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. DeuceBG

    DeuceBG Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    432
    Location:
    Lincoln
    The answer may well be "No" but that won't always stop them from trying it on.
    Sometime ago the DVLA tried to fine me for failing to inform them of the sale of a vehicle.
    They said it was my responsibility to notify them of the new Keeper's details and that my failure to do so had resulted in the fine that they were now imposing.
    I had sent in the necessary paperwork but it had somehow been lost in either their own system or that of the Royal Mail and I told them as much but they insisted that it was my duty to keep chasing them until I received confirmation of their receipt of said documentation.

    I dug in for what turned out to be a 3 month battle and each time they responded to my various arguments by stating that it was my responsibility to chase them and basically to ensure that they were doing their job and hadn't forgotten about me.

    Eventually I managed to dig out a number of very similar cases from the fairly recent past where the court had ruled against the DVLA and in one particular case the Judge stated that:

    "The DVLA has no statutory authority and cannot therefore insist upon payment of the imposed fine in this case".

    I threw this back at the very insistent woman from the DVLA office in Nottingham with whom I'd been dealing.
    The next and final letter came from their Chief Prosecutor who wrote to acknowledge that what I had said was in fact correct and that they accepted that there was no case to answer in this instance.

    The matter was dropped.

    In this case they had definitely overstepped the mark and personally I think they do it quite often, fairly secure in the knowledge that most of the people when challenged will eventually roll over most of the time.....:Angry:
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. John Laidler

    John Laidler Funster

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,587
    Likes Received:
    11,577
    Location:
    Plympton, Devon
    I think there are some crossed wires in this thread. If you have a vehicle which was previously taxed and do not renew the tax you must make a SORN declaration. You can gold plate the vehicle, put it in a glass case on the mantelpiece but you will still get a fine if you don't.

    The rules changed to stop people keeping untaxed vehicles on private lane, for example their drive, but were still using the vehicle.

    The references to wheel clamping etc relate to other offences I think.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. tofo

    tofo Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    6,599
    Likes Received:
    6,228
    Location:
    Kirby cross further from londin
    This thread started as my observation or being nosey if you prefer

    as the 3 dvla vehicles were parked outside my window

    Ie two lift trucks one with a car on board an empty lift truck

    And the camera transit

    When I spoke to the camera van driver mainly asking why three vans

    He said the fella was a little annoyed , rightly so I think

    If no warning was given which I have no knowledge either way

    So I can only assume it was legally removed

    Now to the reason I posted given below

    If you or I was to go off traveling in the camper for say 4 months

    And your runaround car left at home it's tax run out

    I was bringing up the point that even on private land you could

    Return home to find your car lifted and removed to the crusher

    Now whether it's legal or not it would be gone
    and you would have to persue the matter

    But if you sorn the vehicle that should stop the problem arising
    Simple oversight maybe but not easily resolved once the vehicle is crushed

    :thumb::thumb::thumb:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. wizzer59

    wizzer59 Funster

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,882
    Likes Received:
    2,687
    Location:
    Englishman in Mid Wales

    How about a Fun sticker:thumb:
     
  17. DeuceBG

    DeuceBG Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2013
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    432
    Location:
    Lincoln
    That's not a bad idea actually, they're the right colour...:thumb:
     
  18. buttons

    buttons Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    12,950
    Likes Received:
    10,722
    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    More likely to have been SORN but the land was in fact not private but part of the highway. Many are under the misconception that the land behind their public housing on a parking bay or slip road are private when they are not.
     
  19. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,723
    Likes Received:
    939
    Location:
    cheshire
    Private parking bays classed as off road parking for residents along the highway on estates are shown by flat kirbing/edgeing stone on the road and the tarmac/concrete being a differnt colour to the highway behind the kirbing/edgeing stone - at least they are around here. It doesnt stop some officals trying it on though
    Same thing with garage communial parking areas
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  20. johnp10

    johnp10 Funster

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    7,642
    Likes Received:
    14,214
    Location:
    North Lincolnshire
    Yes, it is.

    It must be realised that what we refer to as "Road Tax" isn't a tax at all.
    It's "Vehicle Excise Duty", which is a Duty payable for ownership, rather than road use.
    We have been given the facility to declare SORN, and failure to either pay up or make the declaration is an offence.
     
Loading...

Share This Page