running engine whilst static (1 Viewer)

[Peter & Elaine]

Just run it for 15 to 20 minutes once a fortnight
It will be fine plus you can have a look round to make sure it's all ok inside
I would park it with handbrake off though if possible just incase some times they stick on and if possible just move if backwards and forwards a bit
It's what I do with ours if it's going to parked up for a while

 

[Peter & Elaine]

Cylinder bore glazing defenatly does exist its due to running a engine on light load for long periods generators do it often we used to just hook a load bank ramp it up slowly to full load then run it hard for a hour

Same with cars around town blast it out once a month it does them a world of good

 

[Silver-Fox]

Joy to save any confusion or worry take the battery home and connect it to a smart charger. Just make sure you have your radio code.

Ohh No

Wait for the woes of connecting a battery to a smart charger

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[movan]

Joy to save any confusion or worry take the battery home and connect it to a smart charger. Just make sure you have your radio code.

LOl... Lorger, could you say that in English please. xx

 

[Lisa]

Yes, but it would probably be charged at so much an hour... I am not allowed to wash my van there really. Would have to do the solar panel surreptitiously.

Just being nosey.....why wouldn't they let you wash your van?

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Amazing what you can learn on here..

I'd never heard of gassing until I joined here, which we all know is a myth .. don't we ?

.... but does that also make cylinder bore glazing a myth ?

Stories about what builders get up to at tea breaks is hardly scientific evidence.. It reminds me of those who defended smoking by relating a story of an uncle who puffed 40 Capstan full strength every day until he died at 95.

interesting reading .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_generator#Engine_damage

I'm not here to tell anyone what or what not to do.. just what I would not do.. decide for yourself.

I agree Jim I'd never heard of Gassing before and can't comment on the science behind it!
However on the plus side my present work van has 170000 miles on it and has kept me warm on tick over for the past 3 years .
I'm not a betting man, but I get the feeling I'll be gassed before glazed!



Vlad

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[Allanm]

Well, Joy, no one can say you don't get a bucket load of answers when you ask a question on Mhf!
Allan

 

[movan]

Just being nosey.....why wouldn't they let you wash your van?

Hi Lisa, Because he is a mean spirited man... Can't wash our vans. Can't do this, can't do that. Must do this, must do that. He is not allowed to keep animals on his farm anymore because of cruelty to his livestock. Unfortunately, he owns the only storage space within twenty minutes of me at that price (not cheap I may add). x

 

[Lisa]

Hi Lisa, Because he is a mean spirited man... Can't wash our vans. Can't do this, can't do that. Must do this, must do that. He is not allowed to keep animals on his farm anymore because of cruelty to his livestock. Unfortunately, he owns the only storage space within twenty minutes of me at that price (not cheap I may add). x

Oh no....sounds like a horrid man! What a shame it's your only option

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[Wildbill]

Joy you could run your engine for five hrs a week without any harm coming to it.
don't worry abut it to much as you do ferly high mileage in it just give it a good run when you take it out of storage
IF YOU WAS TO RUN IT CONTINULY ON TICK OVER FOR WEEKS IT CULD BE A PROBLEM BUT FOR BATERY MANTANACE DONT WORRY
EVEN IF YOU DIDENT START IT FOR A YEAR IT WOULD DO IT NO HARM
IF RUNING IT FOR BATTERY MANTANANCE SWICH ON THE HEAD LIGHT'S

 

[jonandshell]

I HAVE WITNESSED BORE GLAZING!!!!!!!!!

Not a friend of a friend, ME!!!!!!!!

IT IS NOT A MYTH!!!

I does exist, I have witnessed it on a new tractor being 'run in' on a grain drying fan which had power requirements well below the power of the new tractor. the light load caused glazing. this manifests itslelf in to form of heavy oil consumption with the oil leaking out from every joint in the exhaust system.

The second occasion was in the Army. I was with a Royal Signals unit and every morning they would do their first parade checks and pull their Bedford MJs out of the garages. The Bedfords had their hand throttles wound up to approximately 1200 rpm and were left for about 2 hours daily in an effort to keep batteries topped up! The result on the engine was identical to the aforementioned tractor. However, the diagnosis in the LAD (workshop) was that the turbo seals were gone and a new turbo was required.

This soon stopped when the unit was joined by Craftsman Class 2 Booty who advised the Tiffy that it was bore glazing and not knackered turbos! Taking one of the affected wagons out for an extended test drive around the Mohne valley, soon confirmed this when all the oil was burnt off the exhaust system, the smoke lessened (Bedfords will never stop smoking!) and my good thashing produced sufficiently high cylinder pressures to restore the cylinder walls to some extent. Glazing, of course can only be fully rectified with an engine rebuild and cylinder rehoning.
My theory was proved right and more money was now available for the Eurofighter project!

God Save The Queen, huraaaahhh!

 

[jonandshell]

BTW when we charge our batteries skiing, due to the Sterling A2B Charger, the engine-powered alternator is providing about 120 Amps at tickover.

This equates to roughly 1728 Watts or 2.317 horsepower! Not as idle as you would think!!!!

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[scotjimland]

dunno about anyone else but I'm 'bored' and my eyes are glazing over..

 

[MikeandCarolyn]

some interesting reading on 'bore glazing'

Most engine manufacturers warn against the potential problem. “Long periods of light or no-load running early in the engine's life may lead to cylinder bore glazing and high lub oil consumption.” Cummins, Perkins and MAN all have issued directives limiting the run time at idle to prevent bore glazing.



wish I knew how to underline or colour the words 'early in an engines life'
they seem to be germain to the discussion.

.

 

[scotjimland]

'early in an engines life'
they seem to be germain to the discussion.

yes it is very important during the running in period .. as previously mentioned by Trekker, this guidance is in the owners handbook ,
but glazing is not confined to this period ..

did you read the wiki link .. ?

I've copy pasted ..

Diesel engines can suffer damage as a result of misapplication or misuse - namely internal glazing (occasionally referred to as bore glazing or piling) and carbon build-up. Ideally, diesel engines should be run at least 60% to 75% of their maximum rated load. Short periods of low load running are permissible providing the set is brought up to full load, or close to full load on a regular basis.


Internal glazing and carbon build-up is due to prolonged periods of running at low speeds or low loads. Such conditions may occur when an engine is left idling as a 'standby' generating unit, ready to run up when needed, (misuse); if the engine powering the set is over-powered (misapplication) for the load applied to it, causing the diesel unit to be under-loaded, or as is very often the case, when sets are started and run off load as a test (misuse).


Running an engine under low loads causes low cylinder pressures and consequent poor piston ring sealing since this relies on the gas pressure to force them against the oil film on the bores to form the seal. Low cylinder pressures causes poor combustion and resultant low combustion pressures and temperatures.


This poor combustion leads to soot formation and unburnt fuel residues which clogs and gums piston rings, causing a further drop in sealing efficiency and exacerbates the initial low pressure. Glazing occurs when hot combustion gases blow past the now poorly-sealing piston rings, causing the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls to 'flash burn', creating an enamel-like glaze which smooths the bore and removes the effect of the intricate pattern of honing marks machined into the bore surface which are there to hold oil and return it to the crankcase via the scraper ring.


Hard carbon also forms from poor combustion and this is highly abrasive and scrapes the honing marks on the bores leading to bore polishing, which then leads to increased oil consumption (blue smoking) and yet further loss of pressure, since the oil film trapped in the honing marks is intended to maintain the piston seal and pressures.


Unburnt fuel then leaks past the piston rings and contaminates the lubricating oil. Poor combustion causes the injectors to become clogged with soot, causing further deterioration in combustion and black smoking.


The problem is increased further with the formation of acids in the engine oil caused by condensed water and combustion by-products which would normally boil off at higher temperatures. This acidic build-up in the lubricating oil causes slow but ultimately damaging wear to bearing surfaces.


This cycle of degradation means that the engine soon becomes irreversibly damaged and may not start at all and will no longer be able to reach full power when required.


Under-loaded running inevitably causes not only white smoke from unburnt fuel but over time will be joined by blue smoke of burnt lubricating oil leaking past the damaged piston rings, and black smoke caused by damaged injectors. This pollution is unacceptable to the authorities and neighbors.


Once glazing or carbon build up has occurred, it can only be cured by stripping down the engine and re-boring the cylinder bores, machining new honing marks and stripping, cleaning and de-coking combustion chambers, fuel injector nozzles and valves. If detected in the early stages, running an engine at maximum load to raise the internal pressures and temperatures allows the piston rings to scrape glaze off the bores and allows carbon build-up to be burnt off. However, if glazing has progressed to the stage where the piston rings have seized into their grooves, this will not have any effect.


The situation can be prevented by carefully selecting the generator set in accordance with manufacturers printed guidelines. ( the use off additional depth oil and fuel By Pass filtration, down to micron level can prevent build up of the particulate or carbon build that contributes to the varnishing.)

For emergency only sets, it may be impractical to use the supported load for testing. A temporary or permanent load bank can be used testing. Sometimes the switchgear can be designed to allow the set to feed power into the grid for load testing

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[movan]

Wow!

 

[Jaws]

Any one wanna borrow one of my glaze busters ?
When I was 'in to' building engines I had to buy a complete set.. Somewhere ( lord knows where ) I have three of the buggers.. Can do a bore size from about 50mm up to about 240mm from memory

 

[tonyidle]

yes it is very important during the running in period .. as previously mentioned by Trekker, this guidance is in the owners handbook ,
but glazing is not confined to this period ..

did you read the wiki link .. ?

I've copy pasted ..

Diesel engines can suffer damage as a result of misapplication or misuse - namely internal glazing (occasionally referred to as bore glazing or piling) and carbon build-up. Ideally, diesel engines should be run at least 60% to 75% of their maximum rated load. Short periods of low load running are permissible providing the set is brought up to full load, or close to full load on a regular basis.


Internal glazing and carbon build-up is due to prolonged periods of running at low speeds or low loads. Such conditions may occur when an engine is left idling as a 'standby' generating unit, ready to run up when needed, (misuse); if the engine powering the set is over-powered (misapplication) for the load applied to it, causing the diesel unit to be under-loaded, or as is very often the case, when sets are started and run off load as a test (misuse).


Running an engine under low loads causes low cylinder pressures and consequent poor piston ring sealing since this relies on the gas pressure to force them against the oil film on the bores to form the seal. Low cylinder pressures causes poor combustion and resultant low combustion pressures and temperatures.


This poor combustion leads to soot formation and unburnt fuel residues which clogs and gums piston rings, causing a further drop in sealing efficiency and exacerbates the initial low pressure. Glazing occurs when hot combustion gases blow past the now poorly-sealing piston rings, causing the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls to 'flash burn', creating an enamel-like glaze which smooths the bore and removes the effect of the intricate pattern of honing marks machined into the bore surface which are there to hold oil and return it to the crankcase via the scraper ring.


Hard carbon also forms from poor combustion and this is highly abrasive and scrapes the honing marks on the bores leading to bore polishing, which then leads to increased oil consumption (blue smoking) and yet further loss of pressure, since the oil film trapped in the honing marks is intended to maintain the piston seal and pressures.


Unburnt fuel then leaks past the piston rings and contaminates the lubricating oil. Poor combustion causes the injectors to become clogged with soot, causing further deterioration in combustion and black smoking.


The problem is increased further with the formation of acids in the engine oil caused by condensed water and combustion by-products which would normally boil off at higher temperatures. This acidic build-up in the lubricating oil causes slow but ultimately damaging wear to bearing surfaces.


This cycle of degradation means that the engine soon becomes irreversibly damaged and may not start at all and will no longer be able to reach full power when required.


Under-loaded running inevitably causes not only white smoke from unburnt fuel but over time will be joined by blue smoke of burnt lubricating oil leaking past the damaged piston rings, and black smoke caused by damaged injectors. This pollution is unacceptable to the authorities and neighbors.


Once glazing or carbon build up has occurred, it can only be cured by stripping down the engine and re-boring the cylinder bores, machining new honing marks and stripping, cleaning and de-coking combustion chambers, fuel injector nozzles and valves. If detected in the early stages, running an engine at maximum load to raise the internal pressures and temperatures allows the piston rings to scrape glaze off the bores and allows carbon build-up to be burnt off. However, if glazing has progressed to the stage where the piston rings have seized into their grooves, this will not have any effect.


The situation can be prevented by carefully selecting the generator set in accordance with manufacturers printed guidelines. ( the use off additional depth oil and fuel By Pass filtration, down to micron level can prevent build up of the particulate or carbon build that contributes to the varnishing.)

For emergency only sets, it may be impractical to use the supported load for testing. A temporary or permanent load bank can be used testing. Sometimes the switchgear can be designed to allow the set to feed power into the grid for load testing

I doubt that any MH uses 60% - 75% available engine power for any length of time during its entire life. In fact I doubt that any road vehicle does.

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[Bobby22]

One other problem with running modern diesel engines........just to get my oar in.

Modern deisel engines that have particulate filters (catalytic converters) don't like stop start situations. Engines must be run quite hard from time to time to keep these things clear.
Even your taxi drivers and delivery drivers MUST run them hard from time to time to clean the particulate filter.

Indeed the most modern Merc vans have even got an override programme. When it cuts in the engine shouldn't be switched off until it has completed its cycle.
Not getting up to decent temperature will do more harm than good, i would leave it alone.

 

[Peter & Elaine]

Must be a lot of glazed engines on M25 and M62 this morning
And I dare say some glazed drivers

 

[grumps147]

Try a PM to our leader Jim. I recall him mentioning he had an additional charger fitted that he run for a period to put charge back into batteries. No doubt others will be on to talk about damage to batteries from rapid charging, and I can't answer those or glazing.
The one about not idling when stationary was if you were on the road in London, it's another Boris.

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[grumps147]

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/b2b-or-a2b-sterling-charger.64832/page-2

This may also assist, or assist to confuse. Can't find the post I was looking for, but pretty certain it was about Sterling chargers.

 

[B-well]

Perkin Elmer! So if we've got a Cummins, Perkins or MAN powered motorhome we shouldn't be idle, or bored by glazing - got it!

No its only if you have a NEW vehicle, olden`s go on for years no probs.

 

[B-well]

I thought that people started up vehicles when laying up in order for oil to circulate around and stop those parts from going rusty in the engine/gearbox.

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