Remap illegal from Jan? (1 Viewer)

Wildman

Free Member
May 30, 2008
0
8,470
Ilfracombe, Devon
Funster No
2,913
MH
Amazon Ambassador
Exp
since 1967
lifted from MCC site
There are to be some changes to the MOT test from 1st January 2012 which are being introduced in response to European Commission Directive 2010/48/EU of the 5th July 2010 and which will effect those with aftermarket HID headlights and remapped ECUs:

4.1.4 Compliance with requirements:
(a) Lamp, emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements
(b) Products on lens or light source which obviously reduce light intensity or change emitted colour
(c) Light source and lamp not compatible

4.1.5. Levelling devices (where mandatory):
(a) Device not operating.
(b) Manual device cannot be operated from driver’s seat.

4.1.6 Headlamp cleaning device (where mandatory):
Device not operating.

For anyone with a remap, section 6.1.9 may be relevant.

6.1.9 Engine performance:
(a) Control unit illegal modified.
(b) Illegal engine modification.

(by 'illegal', it is assumed that they mean changed/programmed differently from OEM specifications)

There will also be a new check on the general condition of the wiring:

4.11. Electrical wiring
(a) Wiring insecure or not adequately secured.
(b) Wiring deteriorated.
(c) Damaged or deteriorated insulation

and on the function of airbag and seat belt pre-tensioner systems:

7.1.4. Safety belt Pre-tensioners:
Pre-tensioner obviously missing or not suitable with the vehicle.

7.1.5. Airbag:
(a) Airbags obviously missing or not suitable with the vehicle.
(b) Airbag obviously non-operative.

7.1.6. SRS Systems:
SRS MIL indicates any kind of failure of the system.

Some of the above won't be popular with some around here I know, but VOSA have confirmed that the necessary changes to the MOT test schedule will be introduced and from 1st January 2012 vehicles that fall foul of the new requirements will fail the test.

[HI]The biggest change is they will now be able to detect re-maps, and car will fail the MOT if this is the case.
[/HI]
One assumes this has been brought in because a lot of people who re-map their cars don't inform their insurance company.
 

chrisgreen

Funster
Jul 26, 2009
5,980
12,332
england
Funster No
7,663
MH
c class
Exp
since 2004
and be aware,if you have had a remap,and not informed your insurance company and you have a smash,the insurance company will check for illegal remaps,you can guess the rest:Doh:bye bye payout:cry:
bit like putting a motorhomefun sticker in your window:Doh:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
W

Wildman

Free Member
May 30, 2008
0
8,470
Ilfracombe, Devon
Funster No
2,913
MH
Amazon Ambassador
Exp
since 1967
I'm sure I read here that the remap/MOT thing was tosh
does not affect me but seeing the quote on a reputable site for the first time I thought it worth posting. If Geo agrees it is rubbish then maybe the thread should be removed to save people getting their knickers in a twist.
 

aba

Free Member
Oct 27, 2009
2,775
1,112
yorkshire
Funster No
9,066
MH
coachbuilt
Exp
dec 2009
If you buy a second hand van how can you tell if it has been remapped?

well from the looks of it wait until next years MOT is due and you will find out:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

darklord

Free Member
Apr 28, 2011
1,241
1,230
essex
Funster No
16,191
MH
coachbuilt
Exp
three years
MOT testing stations cannot detect a remap. The ONLY way they will be able to ascertain whther "something may not be quite right" is if you are a cheapskate and have a "piggy back box of wires" which just splurts more fuel into the combustion chamber, that will probably get picked up on the emmissions test, especially if some of the fuel is unburnt.

I noticed just half an ahour ago when in halfords, that they are selling plug in socket testers for trailer/caravan towing sockets, as I believe that is coming ionto the test, as is the security and integrity of towbars.
To be honest though, there is a hell of a lot of crap being thrown around to scare people at the moment, GEO will no doubt shine a light on it, but normally.......anything included in the MOT test, should be bloody tested.
 

Jaws

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 26, 2008
23,821
71,984
Thetford Norfolk
Funster No
4,189
MH
C class, Chieftain
Exp
since 2006 ( I think ! )
Had mine mapped two years ago..
Only comment EVER made ( and I have mine done at a fairly serious testing station ! ) is 'nice and clean Mr Smith.. One of the better ones we have had'
 

ShiftZZ

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 19, 2008
21,379
84,115
Dark Side of the Moon
Funster No
1,546
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2007
So if I bought a second hand van and had an accident I could be in deep poo poo as I had not told them it was remapped, even if I dodnt know. How would the insurance company know?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

scotjimland

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 25, 2007
2,090
9,056
Suffolk Coastal District, UK
Funster No
15
MH
Timberland
Here is the VOSA MOT Testing Manual for Jan 2012

I'm still wading through it

download the pdf .. Link Removed


EDIT

I can find no mention of re-mapping .. only this comment in section 7.3

Vehicles should normally be tuned to the manufacturer’s recommended settings wherever possible, but[HI] tuning is not part of the MOT test.[/HI]
 

lorger

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 11, 2008
9,632
90,382
Dumfries
Funster No
3,262
MH
Knaus Sun 650MEG
Exp
2007
Iv'e just re mapped my sat nav does that make it illegal now or would it be ok if i take it out the van when it goes for M O T :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

Jaws

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 26, 2008
23,821
71,984
Thetford Norfolk
Funster No
4,189
MH
C class, Chieftain
Exp
since 2006 ( I think ! )
There seems to be no end of disinformation floating around at the moment..
Last week I had a huge run on LED numberplate lights..

Could not figure out why until someone told me 'they are going to be in the MOT next year'

Errr.. they have always been in the MOT but only as 'if fitted must work'

Although a legal requirement under use and construction regs whether one is fitted or not has not changed in the MOT

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

darklord

Free Member
Apr 28, 2011
1,241
1,230
essex
Funster No
16,191
MH
coachbuilt
Exp
three years
AS FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER, WOW tuning told me, that a dealer could not detect a remap, but could overwrite it. Now by that i mean that the spotty oik who's grabbed the OBD reader instead of the grease gun, may just "reset default" if he has any problems, POSSIBLY, a tech would do that anyway, much the same as we all "unplug and plug in again" anything that does not work. If that happens, bang goes your remap, and you'll have to cough up to have it done again............I am currently, (because i forgot until this post) in contact with my insurers underwriters (saga), I'll let you know how i get on.
 

chrisgreen

Funster
Jul 26, 2009
5,980
12,332
england
Funster No
7,663
MH
c class
Exp
since 2004
the wife is a merc service adviser,when she came home for dinner i asked if merc could pick up a remap,she upon return to work,asked a teccy,and the answer is yes with a simple plug in and read the ecu:cry:
i also know vauxhall can do this with tec ii:cry:
 

Jaws

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 26, 2008
23,821
71,984
Thetford Norfolk
Funster No
4,189
MH
C class, Chieftain
Exp
since 2006 ( I think ! )
My Merc lads all told me the same
Their Star box will detect a fault, an old fault, a reset, an error.. in fact all sorts of things

BUT

They always say thanks when I tell them about the maps I have done ( mainly on Smarties ) cos if I dont tell them and they find an error, they would simply do a total reset as they have no way of knowing that the original map has been changed without a 40 minute download and anything up to 3 hours to work their way through all the parameters

So unless MOT times are going to be put up to several hours ( and the fee's adjusted to suit ) AND the MOT stations are going to have every map for every vehicle ever made, I somehow doubt it is going to be much of an issue ( As a for instance, my pre-facelift 2.8 pug engine has 18 different uses in vans alone.. Given all the other apps it is used for I would expect maybe 60plus maps ?

Now .. how many different makes and models are there using different engines ?

Then of course there is the issue of people like Konig
Do you REALLY think they will allow their maps in to the public domain ! ?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

haganap

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2007
12,711
25,979
planet earth
Funster No
974
MH
Carthago C Tourer
Exp
I'm an oldbie MH number 9
the wife is a merc service adviser,when she came home for dinner i asked if merc could pick up a remap,she upon return to work,asked a teccy,and the answer is yes with a simple plug in and read the ecu:cry:
i also know vauxhall can do this with tec ii:cry:

Chris, I know that you are a techie guy but I would dispute this, but not give a rational over a forum but over a beer.
I have on occasions studied remapping extensively for both motorcycle racing and having had 3 vans done, as well as cars and bikes
As for insurance ive always told them and not once has it resulted in an increased premium

oh wel ^^^^^^^^^^up there has given the simple answer
 

chrisgreen

Funster
Jul 26, 2009
5,980
12,332
england
Funster No
7,663
MH
c class
Exp
since 2004
Chris, I know that you are a techie guy but I would dispute this, but not give a rational over a forum but over a beer.
I have on occasions studied remapping extensively for both motorcycle racing and having had 3 vans done, as well as cars and bikes
As for insurance ive always told them and not once has it resulted in an increased premium

oh wel ^^^^^^^^^^up there has given the simple answer
if the remap increases HP then you must inform insurance,may not increase premium,but does not give the insurance reason not to pay out after a smash:Doh:
 

haganap

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2007
12,711
25,979
planet earth
Funster No
974
MH
Carthago C Tourer
Exp
I'm an oldbie MH number 9
if the remap increases HP then you must inform insurance,may not increase premium,but does not give the insurance reason not to pay out after a smash:Doh:

:Doh: coming back at ya :winky: didn't say I hadn't, only that they are never interested when I do :man_in_love:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

chrisgreen

Funster
Jul 26, 2009
5,980
12,332
england
Funster No
7,663
MH
c class
Exp
since 2004
iv had my car remaped from 150 bhp to 190 bhp and informed the insurance company.
as i said in my first post insurance company's must be informed of ANY mods made,not just remaping,i would hate to think a member gets a payout refused on the grounds of haveing a mod done,and not informing their insurance:Doh:
the barstards will use any excuse not to pay:Angry:
 

darklord

Free Member
Apr 28, 2011
1,241
1,230
essex
Funster No
16,191
MH
coachbuilt
Exp
three years
there's never any need for people to fall out over views, but remapping needs to be discussed now and then, if only tto stop people being fleeced at some of the shows or in the mags.
The first caravan show i ever went to, a chap was selling "power boosters" for motorhomes..........he needed a punch in the face::bigsmile:, it was a little box the size of a matchbox with a few wires hanging out, it probably squirted a cup full of jiffy down the port when told to by the throttle sensor.
This sort of "upgrade" is dangerous, not only to the driver, but fuel consumption, and engine longevity...I,d go as far as to say, it WILL kill your engine sooner or later.

A remap, is what is says,.......the "map" that is followed by the ECU at all different operating conditions, is a little "loose". It is designed for temperatures, fuel qualities, ambient temps, air temps in LOADS of different countries, and under different loadings.
If we were talking about just the chassis,...the mapping may be right, BUT, that may be alright for Mr Parcelman, carrying 500kgs of parcels,....it may also be alright for a people carrier (15 people weigh 0ne ton)....but to be carrying a motorhome that is ON or OVER the design weight, the mapping needs to be erring on the side of power rather than speed.
The old "power to weight" calculations apply moreso here,....Mr Boy racer, will use his extra 35 BHP to go into a corner faster so that he can drift out of it, Mr Motorhome user will use HIS extra 35bhp to ease his foot off the pedal a bit and get another 50 miles out of a tankfull.

Once you get into serious tuning, you need bigger intercoolers, bigger exhaust's, everything "matched" to be honest, or you end up like a lot of landrovers....with blown headgasketts, warped exhasut manifolds, or melted pistons, its about that time, that you would be wise to fit a much bigger engine::bigsmile:
 

scotjimland

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 25, 2007
2,090
9,056
Suffolk Coastal District, UK
Funster No
15
MH
Timberland
bad news from Merc. re: blown engine

Just recalled this old thread.. well three actually ....

a sobering tale about a blown Merc Engine in Spain


Link Removed

Link Removed


Link Removed

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

haganap

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2007
12,711
25,979
planet earth
Funster No
974
MH
Carthago C Tourer
Exp
I'm an oldbie MH number 9
Just recalled this old thread.. well three actually ....

a sobering tale about a blown Merc Engine in Spain


Link Removed

Link Removed


Link Removed


Thanks Jim, I enjoyed reading that as it was like a whos who of old funsters, where did they all go.
However, not really relevant but at the same time very relevant.
He had a chip box stuck on his van, notorious for damaging fuel pumps. They work in a completely different way to a remap. They are added and merely fool the engine in to calling in more fuel at different pressure, hence, more fuel in and a load of black smoke. Dirty tuning it is known as and really is quite different from what a good remapper will do.
A remap works within the already built in tollerance's of the manufactures spec, something quite different, no trickery if done properly just a different way of doing it. Am I an expert on this all of a sudden? no, I am having mine done next week and thought about a box, read up on it and got the explanations I needed, will try and find the link I used if some one wants it.
 

vwalan

Funster
Sep 23, 2008
8,835
5,798
roche cornwall
Funster No
4,148
MH
lynton5th wheel
Exp
since a child
hi, like hagnap it was interesting reading all that again. worse is rust . i have since seen lots of merc sprinter chassis cabs with really badly rotted chassis . two have boken clean in half. what with that and the bigger merc engine problems best stay away from them is my advice.
 

scotjimland

LIFE MEMBER
Jul 25, 2007
2,090
9,056
Suffolk Coastal District, UK
Funster No
15
MH
Timberland
Thanks Jim, I enjoyed reading that as it was like a whos who of old funsters, where did they all go.
However, not really relevant but at the same time very relevant.
He had a chip box stuck on his van, notorious for damaging fuel pumps. They work in a completely different way to a remap. They are added and merely fool the engine in to calling in more fuel at different pressure, hence, more fuel in and a load of black smoke. Dirty tuning it is known as and really is quite different from what a good remapper will do.
A remap works within the already built in tollerance's of the manufactures spec, something quite different, no trickery if done properly just a different way of doing it. Am I an expert on this all of a sudden? no, I am having mine done next week and thought about a box, read up on it and got the explanations I needed, will try and find the link I used if some one wants it.

Yes, I appreciate what you say.. and understand how one differs from the other.. but the point was that Merc didn't honour the warranty .. would they if it had been remapped ?

Somehow I doubt it.. like insurers, manufacturers look for any way out of paying out ..

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

chrisgreen

Funster
Jul 26, 2009
5,980
12,332
england
Funster No
7,663
MH
c class
Exp
since 2004
Just recalled this old thread.. well three actually ....

a sobering tale about a blown Merc Engine in Spain


Link Removed

Link Removed


Link Removed
merc aint that good,heard loads of horror stories about mercs,in fact fran bores my to death with stories about merc's although saying that my brother had a merc sprinter and covered about 250.000 miles in it,only needed 3 injector pumps,and 1 ecu in all that time,if any body on this forum has a merc,ask your dealer about a service pack,could save you money,the wife sell's about 3to4 a week:thumb:
i wish the old transit di engine was still about,bomb proof:thumb:
 

haganap

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2007
12,711
25,979
planet earth
Funster No
974
MH
Carthago C Tourer
Exp
I'm an oldbie MH number 9
Mercs? there crap, happy to stick with the ever reliable Fiat meself. :thumb:
 

haganap

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 5, 2007
12,711
25,979
planet earth
Funster No
974
MH
Carthago C Tourer
Exp
I'm an oldbie MH number 9
Im still waiting for an answer to Shiftzz post,
How does anyone know? how can I inform my insurance company if I buy a second hand van with this done? how would I even know?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Jim

Ringleader
Jul 19, 2007
36,197
128,640
Sutton on Sea, UK
Funster No
1
MH
Adria Panel Van.
Exp
Since 1988
I've emailed this thread to Chris at Wow tuning, it will be interesting to see what Chris has to say.
 
Jun 2, 2010
4,924
11,286
Flintshire
Funster No
11,891
MH
Low profile
Exp
since 2010
Don't know if this is relevant or not but I got a peugeot 3008 1.6 diesel semi automatic (electric clutch) in June, the engine developed a knock that if it was petrol you would say it was pinking, and a hesitation on pickup, I waited a while before I took it in on warranty because I could not always replicate the conditions when it happened, Anyway I went to the service reception who straight away said we've had a few of these in lately, the engine has to be remapped on the auto versions, it needs to be in for half a day. Apparently it needed to be tested and setup on the road under various conditions. Anyway performs admirably now and getting 5-10 mpg more.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top