Refusing a Refund?

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by moandick, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Landrake, Cornwall
    Legal Eagles - tune in here, please.

    The published Rules on a particular Caravan Site state quite explicitly:

    (1) that all site fees must be paid in advance of occupation of the pitch and,
    (2) that under no circumstances whatsoever will a refund be given if the stay on that pitch is cut short.

    Recently a member of the Big Pitch Guide had a slight altercation with a site owner and was asked to leave the site immediately - after having stayed 5 days out of a 10 day fully-paid up period.

    The member concerned refused to leave immediately because he had just had a barbecue with some friends during which time he had drunk a couple of bottles of beer and several glasses of wine and did not wish to drive after such a 'drink'.

    The site owner insisted that he leave immediately - the member simply refused to leave until a sufficient period of time had elapsed to nullify the effects of the alcohol.

    The site owner then called in the Police and demanded the member be removed by the Law.

    The member explained the drink problem to the Policeman, the Policeman took advice from 'Head Office', and then asked the member if he would voluntarily leave by 10am the following morning - to which the member promised that he would definitely be gone by 10am the following morning.

    The member did leave by 10am the following morning and all was well.

    Two questions:

    1. Could the site owner 'legally' insist on the removal of a Driver even when that Driver has admitted to being over the legal drink-drive limit?

    2. Is it legal for the site Owner to refuse a refund for services that he (the site owner) has withdrawn for his own reasons?

    Dick from the Big Pitch Guide
     
  2. meanders

    meanders Funster - Life Member Life Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    318
    Location:
    Ipswich, Suffolk
    Not an easy situation to judge as of course we do not know what the 'altercation' was. However, while not a solicitor, I am reasonably confident of the following:

    1. The police cannot force you to break the law by insisting you drive while over the limit.

    2. If the altercation was an arrestable offence then you could be arrested and removed to the police station over night. However, that does not remove the vehicle or any other person from the party. My suspicion is that there were no grounds for an arrest hence the police speaking to a senior officer for advice.

    3. It could be deemed an 'unfair' clause in the contract and therefore invalid. Your best bet there would be Trading Standards. However, I suspect you will get nowhere with that course of action.

    4. A better bet if its a reasonable amount of money would be to go through the small claims court to recover the lost amount. The camp site then have to prove that the behaviour of the person was such to warrant insisting they leave. If it was a simple dispute, then its unlikely the judge would be persuaded that withholding the monies was 'reasonable'.

    If its a small amount of money, then frankly its best just to write it off and get on with life. These sorts of injustices happen very day. Just spread the word in the hope it will hit the owner in the pocket in the end. Some of these people are little Hitler's, but on the other hand, some holidaymakers can be equally offensive and nasty.

    Best wishes ...... Robin
     
  3. Welsh girl

    Welsh girl Funster Life Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    2,621
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    Location:
    living the dream.
    Not sure of the cc club but there was trouble here on a comercial site where a woman too drunk to drive was told that if she didnt behave herself that she and her crowd and their caravan would be taken by the security and put outside on the road where she would have to make arrangements to have herself and her crowd picked up by someone else as they were not at fault as they said, you caused the trouble and you drunk too much there-for it is your problem if you get caught for drink driving etc plus there was no refund any way as they dont give refunds whatever the reason you left
     
  4. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    25,855
    Likes Received:
    76,223
    Location:
    Sutton on Sea
    1, Yes. Anyone can be asked to leave a property by the owner or its agent for any reason. If they do not leave, reasonable force may be used to eject them. However clearly in this instance common sense was required and was indeed exercised by the Police officer.

    2, If the contract between the two parties states that refunds are not given for any reason then the owner is well within their rights in not providing a refund. A county court officer might show some sympathy to the evictee but its probably not worth the risk .

    My advice walk away, forget about it:Smile:

    The above is of course only my unqualified opinion.
     
  5. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,594
    Likes Received:
    3,853
    Location:
    roche cornwall
    think you will find that any land owner as the right to have people removed.(but possibly through court action)
    as a user of the site and paying the fee usually awarw of the terms of agreementyou accept the terms .first by paying second by being there. and possibly by signing the terms.
    always read small print .if you dont and sign its your fault.
    nobody makes you do things back to personal responsibility.
    have fun .cheers alan.
     
  6. AdgeRas

    AdgeRas Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Bristol
    Just to clarify Jim, reading Dicks 1st question, "Yes" he can be forced to leave, but he can not be forced to remove the vehicle / motorhome if he has stated he has been drinking?

    I know I may be being pedantic, but I just wished to double check.

    Adge
     
  7. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    25,855
    Likes Received:
    76,223
    Location:
    Sutton on Sea
    Strictly speaking, If the evictee is too drunk to remove his property then that really is his problem; He could come back when he sober. Of course the site owner can't make him drive but he could legally dump him the other side of the barrier. (Him not his vehicle) Clearly the compromise reached was the best option.
     
  8. atakd

    atakd Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Wirral

    Don't agree on this one. If you let under a short term tenancy agreement you cannot evict a tennant (legally) without a court order, regardless of their behaviour.

    Obviously this is not the case here but, unless the camper has broken a specific clause in the contract then there is no legal basis to force them to leave. If they have broken the contract then they can be forced to leave as they effectively become trespassers, and, as trish-n-tez says, whether they can drive their vehicle is their problem. If the Ts&Cs of the contract are broken there is little chance of a refund as the site owner could reasonably claim that the original booking precluded pitch rental to another party.
     
  9. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Landrake, Cornwall
    OK, I will expand just a little because I do not want any of the parties involved to be identified - in what was a situation that WAS resolved with common sense and a few ruffled feathers.

    A person goes to a caravan site books in for ten days.

    Wants to do his laundry - but the washing machine is in use (by the site staff servicing some holiday homes) from morning to night for two days, Eventually he asks a member of staff when he can do his washing and is told that he will have to wait until the staff have finished and that could be at least one more day. not too much of a problem, but it rankled a little - paying for facilities that are not available when he wants them.

    Day four, nice hot sunny day - a noticeboard mounted close to his RV says that the Pub/Restaurant on site is open seven days a week - so he and his wife walk to the Pub - not as close as expected but a nice drink awaits them at the end of the walk. - Oh no it doesn't - the Pub only opens at weekends, not during the week, Bit annoyed, so he goes back to the noticeboard to check his facts - the noticeboard definitely says OPEN 7 days a week.

    An second RV has arrived beside them and puts up a small tent for their children - the site owner arrives and tells them (it's in the published Rules) they are not allowed to put up the tent - so the second RV people take it down. Then they put up a windbreak - the site owner comes back and tells them (it's in the published Rules) they are not allowed to erect windbreaks on site - so the second RV people take it down.

    The two RV families then decide to have a barbecue and over a beer or two they discuss the situation and put the World to rights in general. Unfortunately they are overheard by a passerby who relates every word of their private conversation to the Site Owner (apparently the eavesdropper is both a relative of the site owner and a regular visitor to the site).

    The site owner then makes a formal complaint to me (The Big Pitch Guide) quoting a members name - only its a name that I have never heard of - so I hear the site owners side of the story about how one of my members is going around the site 'bad-mouthing' the staff. He thinks about it a little bit more and then decides to evict the Member concerned.

    The rest you know!

    Dick
     
  10. sutton133

    sutton133 Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Atakd, the agreement is more likely to be a "licence to occupy" than a short term tenancy. Such a licence can be withdrawn without notice and, I believe, without quoting any reason.

    Dick, is the camp still listed in the Guide? Private message with Site Number would be appreciated.
     
  11. camcondor

    camcondor Read Only Funster

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    East Midlands
    So there was no legal basis (or "reasonable cause") for the site owner to demand instant eviction other than a third party account of an eavesdropped conversation? Doesn't sound very sound, but then would one want to stay on a site where you are clearly badly treated and a bad vibe emerges due to poor customer service? I'm guessing the financial loss in ite fees to be around £100 or so which could possibly be reclaimed via Small Claims Court as the site owner may possibly be in breach of the contract - he has contracted to provide certain services for payment of the site fee and if these were unreasonably not available, then he would be in breach. Question is, is the approx £100 and all the effort worth it? The motorhomer could easily flame the site all over the internet with his account (keeping it factual) of what happened and hit the sites business.

    I'm sure we'd all like to know which site it was so we can be Forewarned of potential problems if deciding to use it........:Eeek:
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. davejen
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    497
  2. Big Lad
    Replies:
    33
    Views:
    2,187
  3. busby
    Replies:
    21
    Views:
    1,010
  4. abforfun
    Replies:
    12
    Views:
    1,046
  5. Adrian1
    Replies:
    17
    Views:
    1,058

Share This Page