Red Diesel

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by ShiftZZ, May 20, 2008.

  1. ShiftZZ

    ShiftZZ Funster Life Member

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    Just seen some discussion on Red Diesel on another forum.

    I know its illegal, but what are the thoughts on here~?
    Boat owners are currently allowed to use it on their recreational boats, why not us?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. ruffingitsmoothly

    ruffingitsmoothly Read Only Funster

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    I think that the risk of having your very expensive Motorhome/RV impounded and a very heavy fine imposed are too great for the savings made, also 'Red Diesel' is nowhere near as cheap as it used to be at about 75ppl at the present time.

    Apparently I have heard that 'Red Diesel' is to be done away with, and only legitimate users such as plant operators and farmers will have to claim back duty from Customs and Excise.

    Regards Pat
     
  3. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

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    I know very little about red diesel but have been frequently told that it is not as refined as normal road diesel and therefore more liable to damage a 'fast' modern engine.

    On top of that, we have several times witnessed road side fuels checks taking place and would not wish to jeopardise our RV or car.
     
  4. Tony Santara

    Tony Santara Funster

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    I don't believe that it's not as refined I used for many a year in my trucks on Middle East runs where when outside the EEC it was legal to use it didn't affect my vehicles in any way, its just a dye for ID purposes

    However I agree with Pat (ruffingitsmoothly) why chance having your motorhome impounded and fined especialy mid holiday because you could be caught anywhere in the EEC countries
     
  5. Bryan

    Bryan Read Only Funster

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    AFAIK Red Diesel is exactly the same as 'ordinary' diesel except for the adding of detectable additives (including dye).

    I was once told that the reason that boats could use red diesel was an historical thank you for private boat owners who used their boats at Dunkirk.

    I think that red diesel for pleasure craft use is now prohibited.

    HTH

    Bryan
     
  6. jakeontour

    jakeontour Read Only Funster

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    Simple advice has to be, don't even think about it unless you are driving something very old tech and low value, and even then I wouldn't risk it.

    I'm told by a friend who works in the petrochemical industry that red diesel is the same basic product as ordinary diesel, but with a dye added. However it is a technically inferior product as it doesn't have any of the additives that are essential if you hope to get anything like a useful life out of your vehicle's engine.

    If the Revenue catch you running on the road with red diesel in your tank, expect to say goodbye to your pride and joy (or pay a large fine). It's not just the fuel in the tank, the dye stains almost impossible to shift out of fuel filters etc. and they do check.

    A former colleague was running his new company Audi on red diesel. Took it into the main dealer for a routine service and got a visit from the Revenue (and his P45) :cry:
     
  7. Gonewiththewind

    Gonewiththewind Read Only Funster

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    I think that you young bucks need to know the why's and where-fores.Fuel duty, along with Road Tax was introduced to cover the cost of building and repairing Roads. Hence Farmers and Boats where never included, hence the introduction of Red Diesel, to define Tax Not Paid. But of cause all that has changed and the taxes now go into the main coffers and are spent any where the government wants.

    Now to today, where by abolition of priveliges. Free TV licences at age 75. Now fixed at a year (Ithink it is 1929, not sure). Classic car tax was free after 25 Years now fixed to a year (again not sure of date !97?). when the goverment was asked why, the response was "this country cannot afford free riders. in a few years all those born before 1929 will be dead and all vehicles built before 197- will have been recycled. No more free TV licences, No more free road taxes, every one paying thier way. And now the inclusion of fuel tax on red Diesel.
     
  8. ruffingitsmoothly

    ruffingitsmoothly Read Only Funster

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    I agree with Tony I don't think that modern, extremely expensive, highly sophistcated construction/agricultural equipment would be made to run on inferior diesel!

    As for the staining of filters tanks etc this is irrelevant as long as the vehicle when stopped is running on white derv doesnt matter what staining there is, furthermore if the vehicle is 'dipped' off road ie on site or wherever you can still be done if the vehicle is taxed!!

    I was also told that the Police and Customs now have special cameras that can detect the dye coming out of your exhaust as they are following you, I find this hard to believe though.

    Regards Pat
     
  9. algill

    algill Funster

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    We run construction equipment and at the moment red diesel is 60p per litre (if you buy in bulk). This time last year it was 40p - so it's making life difficult as we can't pass the full extra cost on to the customer. I just feel very sorry for the truckers :cry:

    We would never put red diesel in our vans as it's too great a risk. The fine is up to £3000 and vehicle impounded. :Eeek:

    From November this year we will pay full tax on our diesel - but will be able to claim it back (supposedly and for how long I wonder).

    Yet again we are being used as unpaid tax collectors :Angry:
     
  10. ShiftZZ

    ShiftZZ Funster Life Member

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    Is biodiesel another option?

    What are the pro's and con's?
     
  11. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Modern boat engines these days are as sophisticated as a car or lorry, unfortunately red is going to be taxed I think from November 2008 and at a mile per gallon it ain't funny!!:cry:

    Gasoil (heating oil is the same as red diesel and thats 5% VAT................)
     
  12. American Dream

    American Dream Read Only Funster

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    Invokes Visions of Police with RED faces Pat[​IMG].:RollEyes:[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I'm surprised they haven't added a coloured smoke additive to it yet.

    Too much watching the Reds I guess.:Doh:
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
  13. klaatu

    klaatu Deleted User

    Where did you get that from?

    TV Licensing - Aged Over 74
     
  14. Thepips

    Thepips Trade Member

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    Marine diesel engines are incredibly sophisticated. Volvo's main stream engine is a 24 valve 3.7 litre straight six. It's turbo charged AND super charged to deliver 300 hp. It's designed to run continuously at 3300 rpm, 200 rpm below the red line. They're strong enough to cope with the props coming out of the water and letting the engines run over the redline and then cope with the torque transfer when the prop hits the water again. Truly astonishing engines.
    As I understand it the leisure use of red diesel is stopping 1st November. When filling the boat with red diesel, the boat operator has to self-declare his status and pay the full duty if using the boat for leisure purposes. Hmmm I see a slight flaw in this plan!

    Regards
    Doug
     
  15. Gonewiththewind

    Gonewiththewind Read Only Funster

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    I have emailed the web site for clarification, it may be that the site is out of date.
     
  16. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    i also heard this and im inclined to beleive it.

    government way to stop us normal motorists taking the risk and using red, i suppose.

    john.
     
  17. Thepips

    Thepips Trade Member

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    Here's the story from a source I'd trust, namely the Royal Yachting Association.
    The RYA and BMF (British Marine Federation) can now confirm that the key features of the new scheme for charging duty on marine diesel to be introduced by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) with effect from 1 November 2008 will be:

    • Private users can continue to use marked fuel (red diesel) providing they make a simple declaration to the supplier and pay the full duty rate for heavy oil;
    • Registered Dealers in Controlled Oils (RDCOs) will be responsible for declaring the duty collected to HMRC; and,
    • Fuel purchased for domestic use (i.e. not for propulsion of the craft) can continue to be purchased at the rebated rate.

    It does mean that suppliers of red diesel will have to become RDCOs which may be a bit of red tape too much for the smaller outlets. I find the self-declaration element intriguing. As far as I can tell the RDCO simply takes the word of the purchaser. So you can still buy it, state you're using it legally and put it in your RV!

    Regards
    Doug
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
  18. Digger Driver

    Digger Driver Read Only Funster

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    Not on the canals!
    To use red on a canal boat you have to have a commercial vessel! (My site manager has bored me to death on this matter)

    My personal thought on red (as someone who gets it for free) are?????
    I wish my engine was diesel!!!!
    I have even thought of taking 15 gallons home each week and stockpiling it!
     
  19. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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  20. playbyte

    playbyte xMember

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    Just a thought, If tax on diesel is for rebuilding roads etc and theres no tax on red diesel for farm vehicles why are there so many farm tractors on the road!
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2008
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