Propane Honda generator

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Reallyretired, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

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    Does anyone use propane to power a generator, Honda or otherwise?

    Does it use vapour, i.e. connected to a barbeque point or bottle through a regulator, or does it need liquid LPG like a gas powered vehicle.

    The Honda site shows a price for a gas converted generator but gives no other details. The gas conversion only costs about £150 which seems a bargain not to have to carry petrol(stinky stuff and an extra fire risk) as well as diesel and gas.

    As an aside I notice that Honda has had a judgement against Kipor for infringing their patents, and are confiscating and crushing them. Anyone whose got one should paint it red to disguise it :Rofl1::Rofl1:
     
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  2. darklord

    darklord Read Only Funster

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    Nothing runs on Liquid LPG.

    It will run on vapour. LPG is liquid until it is vapurised in a chamber, normally by the application of heat. LPG in its liquid form, expands 250 times when it comes into contact with air, so very little would run on the liquid.

    Some RV's have LPG gennies running off LPG tanks, some MH or RV's have an LPG tank for the onboard needs, filled up as you would fill a car.

    PETROL stinky stuff and wet

    LPG stinky stuff and dry

    PETROL-LPG both explosive to the same degree, both flammable to the same degree, both lethal to the same degree.

    LPG, sinks to the lowest point as it is heavier than air, so will sit in a dip or well, it is lighter than water, so will slide along the top of a stream or waterway.
    If they made glass gas bottles, you would sh*t yourself everytime you used gas, because inside the bottle, it is "boiling off", ive seen it in a demo at a refinery..scary.
    Treat both with the same respect.
     
  3. JeanLuc

    JeanLuc Funster

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    I know that LPG conversions are available and I believe they take a feed from a BBQ point for example. However, the following text is lifted from the FAQ section of the Honda UK website.

    "Due to the dry combustion characteristics and the higher combustion temperature the possibility of premature wear to the valve seats and piston rings is dramatically increased. Therefore any combustion chamber related failure that is attributed to an LPG conversion will not be covered under warranty. Honda (UK) will not cover any costs or consequential costs that relate to a failure caused in any part by a gas conversion."
     
  4. icantremember

    icantremember Funster

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    We have owned for 5-6 years, a Honda EU10 with lpg conversion & went for lpg as we store it under a bed and would not want to sleep with petrol fumes.....also don't want to carry petrol on board for the odd occasion it would be used. Although we have not needed to use it very often it is reassuring to have it at times.
    Currently we run it, if required, directly from our external bbq gas point but on previous m/hs have connected it to a cylinder through a regulator.

    Hope this helps
     
  5. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

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    Thanks for the replies.

    I realise LPG is just as much a fire risk as petrol, it's just that we are carrying LPG anyway, petrol is just something extra to carry.

    I'm surprised that Honda will sell a LPG powered generator and then put warnings on it that their warranty doesn't cover it.:Eeek: I must check their site further.

    I thought it was vapour they ran off but just wanted to check, the propane powered fork lifts run off liquid which is why they mount the bottle on its side, I believe cars using LPG as a motive fuel also use liquid LPG with the take-off from the bottom of the tank.
     
  6. darklord

    darklord Read Only Funster

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    Sorry mate, but they do not. Ive fitted a gas kit to a car, and i can assure you that they run on LPG vapour, as do forlkifts, they just use a different type of bottle to lay sideways.
    As I said, the LPG travels down the vehicle in liquid form, then is vapourised, usulally in avapouriser than has heated water from the cars engine flowing around it, the vapour then flows through the carb/injector, the same as petrol would and is ignited.

    LPG does give a cleaner burn, but in my opinion, runs hotter. I needed a new exhaust pretty quick after fitting the LPG kit, I also found that running an older carbed engine on LPG was too much of a headache, keeping it tuned to run on both doubled all the usual problems.

    However, ive seen lpg gennies etc run perfectly well, as with newer cars, fork lifts (the preffered fuel for them), so there is nothing wrong with it......just the price creeping up:Eeek:
     
  7. pudseykeith

    pudseykeith Read Only Funster

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    LPG Genny

    We have 2klw honda with a gas conversion bought 2years ago. We checked the guarentee position and was assured the conversion made no differance to the 5 year guarentee.
    It runs great of the BBQ point and a bottle of propane i keep at home in case of a power cut
    Go on, treat your self.
    Hope this is of help to you. Pudseykeith :thumb:
     
  8. John H

    John H Read Only Funster

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    I think the confusion here is that car tanks are designed to draw of liquid as the regulator is usually under the bonnet , it vaporises at the carb or injector, gas appliances draw of gas vapour directly from the bottle or tank .

    Regards, John
     
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  9. JeanLuc

    JeanLuc Funster

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    I know that many people run a generator on LPG without any problems and several dealers sell conversion kits. However, so far as I am aware, Honda do not sell LPG conversions. I searched their website earlier today and could find no reference to them.
    http://www.honda.co.uk/energy/
    In fact a search of the site returns the same warning that I posted before.

    When I bought my EU10i almost two years ago, I phoned Honda to ask them about LPG conversion and got the same answer. It will run but they will not honour any warranty claim - despite what dealers may say. As an example, here is a conversion on an EU10i from Lings, a very large and reputable dealer. In fact it is where I bought my standard model.
    http://www.hondaenergy.com/product.php/12/honda_eu10i_lpg

    I suggest that if you decide to proceed with an LPG version, you ask the dealer for a specific written warranty in addition to the standard Honda one.
     
  10. darklord

    darklord Read Only Funster

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  11. JeanLuc

    JeanLuc Funster

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    In case you are interested, one of the members on "The Other Side" (MHF that cannot be named) is selling a year-old unused EU20i for £800. A snap at that price as it is well over £1,000 new.
     
  12. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    I agree and disagree with some of the points above....


    "Nothing runs on PLG".......Oh yes it does, vehicle engines do..see liquid phase injectors below.

    LPG for engine use is generally taken from the tank as a liquid, then it's put through a converter to allow it to become a vapour which is then fed into the carb or injector system.


    Converter
    The converter (also known as vaporiser) is a device designed to change the fuel from a pressurised liquid to a vapour at around atmospheric pressure for delivery to the mixer or vapour phase injectors.


    Engines with a low power output such as; scooters, quad bikes and generators can use a simpler type of converter (also known as governor or regulator). These converters are fed with fuel in vapour form. Evaporation takes place in the tank where refrigeration occurs as the liquid fuel boils. The tanks large surface area exposed to the ambient air temperature combined with the low power output (fuel requirement) of the engine make this type of system viable. The refrigeration of the fuel tank is proportional to fuel demand hence this arrangement is only used on smaller engines. This type of converter can either be fed with vapour at tank pressure (called a 2 stage regulator) or be fed via a tank mounted regulator at a fixed reduced pressure (called a single stage regulator).

    Vapour phase injectors
    Most vapour phase injection systems mount the solenoids in a manifold block or injector rail, then run hoses to the nozzles, which are screwed into holes drilled and tapped into the runners of the intake manifold. There is usually one nozzle for each cylinder. Some vapour injection systems resemble petrol injection, having separate injectors that fit into the manifold or head in the same manner as petrol injectors, and are fed fuel through a fuel rail.


    Liquid phase injectors
    Liquid phase injectors are mounted onto the engine in a manner similar to petrol injectors, being mounted directly at the inlet manifold and fed liquid fuel from a fuel rail.


    LPG (propane) remains liquid at 22 bar (319psi)...and heat will expand the liquid, not the vapour.
    vapour is produced as the pressure drops below 22 bar.... ie: opening the valve.

    LPG has a calorific value of 46.1 MJ/kg compared with 42.5 MJ/kg for fuel-oil and 43.5 MJ/kg for petrol, However, its energy density per volume unit of 26 MJ/l is lower than either that of petrol or fuel-oil so is not as efficient.

    So....a genny shouldn't run directly from a gas BBQ point as the pressure will not be correct for the system, but will need its own regulator connected directly to the gas bottle/tank or a stand alone regulator connected to an unregulated bottle.

     
  13. motorhomelover

    motorhomelover

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    gas powered does not mean it runs on liquid LPG it has a regulator and the gas is let in to be burnt
     
  14. Glynn

    Glynn Read Only Funster

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  15. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    a small generator engine, yes.....but not all large engines are

    Liquid phase injectors
    Liquid phase injectors are mounted onto the engine in a manner similar to petrol injectors, being mounted directly at the inlet manifold and fed liquid fuel from a fuel rail.
     
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