Propane Charging (1 Viewer)

[chrisgreen]

Definitive answer please ..

What is the legal status of filling your own (non Galslow/Alugas) cylinder?

Not what you do, turning a blind eye etc, just the actual law.

its covered by HSE.
Portable LPG Cylinders
23) Customers or untrained attendants should not be allowed to fill
portable LPG cylinders from the autogas dispenser.

Note explaining the rationale for this restriction:
The filling of cylinders (pressure vessels) requires an appropriate level
of expertise and equipment to ensure that the filling is carried out
safely. Additionally, the person filling a cylinder needs to carefully
inspect all the external surfaces (including the base and the valve) for
evidence of damage; the markings need to be checked to ensure that the
cylinder is not overdue for periodic testing. After carrying out these
checks, care has to be taken to prevent overfilling; the percentage fill
varies with the size of cylinder, this can be 80 to 87%. The filling of
cylinders requires the use of an adaptor which gives rise to the
additional risks listed in paragraph 5.14.

LPG containers that are securely attached to a vehicle (e.g. camper van)
for heating or cooking purposes may be filled from the autogas dispenser
on the proviso that they: - remain in-situ for re-filling;
- are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling
beyond 80% of the full capacity; and
- are a fixed filling connector which is not part of the vessel
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/filling_lpg_gas_bottles_on_forec

 

[JJ]

Last summer I saw a brain dead pillock filling a gas cylinder (not gaslow) with a mickey mouse pigtail at a filling station whilst I was filling up.
I informed him that not only are these cylinders [HI]not user refillable,[/HI] but thefuel [HI]companys dont allow it on safety grounds[/HI].
I politely asked him to stop filling until I had left for my safety, at which he came out with a load of f's and b's.
I reported him to the garage operator, who promptly turned the pump off.
I dont care how long you've been doing it or how safe you think it is, [HI]it's unsafe[/HI], particularly since the brain dead pillock in question had the thing laid on it's side (a major no no) in his car boot.
Why do people who spend a [HI]fortune on motorhomes[/HI] try to cut corners [HI]at the expense of basic safety?[/HI]
I suppose when the first brain dead pillock goes up with a bang it will be the garage's fault?
[HI]If it was safe and legal, the fuel companies would be encourageing it[/HI].

Keep doing it, but not near me.
If I see it I WILL report it, I value mine and my family's life more than your wallet.

End of inerest in this, we 've been here before.

Oh, one last query. This talk of cylinder weights in relation to fill: do you fill with the cylinders sitting on bathroom scales?

It is hard for me to disagree with one post as many times as I do with this one.

If you have any worries or doubts about how to fill an empty propane bottle safely DO NOT DO IT.

Now.

Will someone please tell me HOW I am being dangerous when I fill my empty propane bottle (in good condition) at the ratio of 2 litres per kilo using a beautifully engineered adaptor with the thread condition checked and with a one way valve fitted.

Frankly you can't.

I can give a simple explanation why fuel companies don't want people to fill their own bottles... and safety is not top of the list.

I repeat... If you are in any way unsure of how to do this DON'T.

My local GPL (LPG) supplier has a gas pump at his petrol station. His company has the contract for supplying, filling and exchanging ALL the Repsol bottles in the area (including my flat.) His staff (or I) fill my Calor lite bottle in the Wagon at his station through this adaptor happily after I have connected up to the pump. It would seem silly for him and his experienced staff to risk a whole bloody petrol station doing something that people (with far less experience in these matters) on this Forum consider to be "dangerous."

If anyone wants to pay almost twice the price for their gas on the grounds that they can afford it because they have a big flash (probably white) expensive motorhome, carry on.

If you don't know about LPG and how it works and how to handle it and are frighten of it then don't fill your bottles yourself. Pay for a school leaver to do it for you.

I know people who pay hundreds of pounds for trainers because they have a "tick" on them. I know who I think are "brain dead pillocks"!

Meanwhile I will continue to fill my own bottles as I (and many of my capable) friends have been doing for years... just as I have been crossing the road for years... I try to remember to look both ways before I step off the pavement... some people don't and get run over.

JJ :Cool:

 

[vwalan]

i have a calor vehicle tank with no 80%shut off valve .it just as a bleed off valve . when filling you open it slightly ,gas comes out .whn 80%full liquid comes out .
i think this could be more dangerous than the filling of bottles . yet is supplied by calor or was . years ago. i used it when i had a gas powered car . in fact have used it in a few vehicles .first using a beam conversion from california .then a landi hartog conversion from holland . when i changed to fuel injection petrol vehicles i stopped using it . but worked fine on water cooled cars or on aircooled but that required a pipe twisted round the exhaust to get the vapouriser warm .
but many vehicles are still using this bleed off system .
my large 1200litre tank at home still uses it . calor open it and let gas out then liquid every time they fill it .

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[ShiftZZ]

It is hard for me to disagree with one post as many times as I do with this one.

If you have any worries or doubts about how to fill an empty propane bottle safely DO NOT DO IT.

Now.

Will someone please tell me HOW I am being dangerous when I fill my empty propane bottle (in good condition) at the ratio of 2 litres per kilo using a beautifully engineered adaptor with the thread condition checked and with a one way valve fitted.

Frankly you can't.

I can give a simple explanation why fuel companies don't want people to fill their own bottles... and safety is not top of the list.

I repeat... If you are in any way unsure of how to do this DON'T.

My local GPL (LPG) supplier has a gas pump at his petrol station. His company has the contract for supplying, filling and exchanging ALL the Repsol bottles in the area (including my flat.) His staff (or I) fill my Calor lite bottle in the Wagon at his station through this adaptor happily after I have connected up to the pump. It would seem silly for him and his experienced staff to risk a whole bloody petrol station doing something that people on this Forum consider to be "dangerous."

If anyone wants to pay almost twice the price for their gas on the grounds that they can afford it because they have a big flash (probably white) expensive motorhome, carry on.

If you don't know about LPG and how it works and how to handle it and are frighten of it then don't fill your bottles yourself. Pay for a school leaver to do it for you.

I know people who pay hundreds of pounds for trainers because they have a[HI] "tick" on them. [/HI]I know who I think are "[HI]brain dead pillocks"[/[/HI]COLOR]!

Meanwhile I will continue to fill my own bottles as i have been doing for years just as I have been crossing the road for years... I try to remember to look both ways before I step off the pavement... some people don't and get run over.

JJ :Cool:

Indeed JJ

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[JJ]

Indeed JJ

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EXCELLENT...

Never take on smarty pants students...

They know it all!

JJ :Cool:

Where did you get those beautiful images? Have you been into the Website For The Enlightened Ones?

 

[johnp10]

Yet another load of I'll informed twaddle It simply is not illegal to fill your own bottles It is recommend that you do not fill them
As to being dangerous there is probably less danger filling a bottle with a adapter than there is to filling a refill system bottle No pipes and joints or linkage to leek oh: no 80% gauge to fail or anything like that so less to go wrong :thumb: There are lot's of posts on refillable bottles going wrong, pigtails leaking, 80% gauge going faulty etc etc None about a adapter going wrong oh:indeed just about the only thing to go wrong is it could snap thus rendering it useless Then there is human error but I put it to you if you cannot do your 2 x table you should not be using one anyway
Terry

Twaddle.
Absolutely. Read your own post for twaddle.
See post below, I think that indicates the legal situation.

We are talking here about people filling gas cylinders at fuel stations (against the T&C of both the cylinder owner and the fuel companies)
who are not only unqualified to fill them by mickey mouse methods, but who are generally unqualified to express an opinion on the safety aspects.
("I've always done it" or "They do it in Maroc" arent qualifications.)
What happens abroad is a different issue. Also not really interested in the prices of gas in Maroc. (That's spelt Morocco, BTW)
Interested in what happens here.
Fuel stations in the UK dont have the equipment to allow self fill of cylinders.
If they did, they would advrtise it to increase profits.

Agree or disagree, up to yourselves. Dont care, but you will not do it near to me or mine without complaint on safety grounds.
I stand by my original post.
Stupid and irresponsible thing to do in the name of saving a few pennies.

Yes, but you are breaking Calor's rental contract and thus liable for a civil action to be taken against you.
If you haven't signed a rental agreement, you have stolen goods and that is a criminal matter!

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[jhorsf]

"but this practice is frowned upon and I just can not see why"


Now where is my bag of popcorn :hardhat:

Here it is Broken Link Removed

 

[JJ]

Twaddle.
Absolutely. Read your own post for twaddle.
See post below, I think that indicates the legal situation.

We are talking here about people filling gas cylinders at fuel stations (against the T&C of both the cylinder owner and the fuel companies)
who are not only unqualified to fill them by mickey mouse methods, but who are generally unqualified to express an opinion on the safety aspects.
("I've always done it" or "They do it in Maroc" arent qualifications.)
What happens abroad is a different issue. Also not really interested in the prices of gas in Maroc. (That's spelt Morocco, BTW)
Interested in what happens here.
Fuel stations in the UK dont have the equipment to allow self fill of cylinders.
If they did, they would advrtise it to increase profits.

Agree or disagree, up to yourselves. Dont care, but you will not do it near to me or mine without complaint on safety grounds.
I stand by my original post.
Stupid and irresponsible thing to do in the name of saving a few pennies.

Just as I thought.

A lot of opinion but NO explanation why it is dangerous for ME to fill my Calor gas bottle myself.

Qualifications?

What qualifications?

Am I qualified to fill my Gaslow bottles at a self-service LPG point?

"They" let me do it all over the UK and Europe.

So if I am capable of filling my Gaslow bottles, pray explain to me why I am not capable of putting 12 litres of LPG in my Calor lite bottle. Please give me an intelligent explanation why you think I can't release pressure on the grip of the gun when 12 litres shows on the dial? (leaving plenty of safety margin.)

Some people are "stretched" when filling up their cars with petrol... (now there is a dangerous activity with excess fuel over flowing out of the filler tube etc) but they are all right are they? Qualified are they? Passed some sort of exam have they?

I really, really, really, really resent the suggestion that I am "stupid" and "irresponsible" by folk who are only spouting their own opinion based on what?

Stuff they have learned from reading Readers Letters to the likes of MMM maybe?

If you don't feel you are capable of re-filling gas bottles don't do it... I am not capable of flying 747s so I don't try.


JJ :Cool:

 

[2657]

Twaddle.
Absolutely. Read your own post for twaddle.
See post below, I think that indicates the legal situation.

We are talking here about people filling gas cylinders at fuel stations (against the T&C of both the cylinder owner and the fuel companies)
who are not only unqualified to fill them by mickey mouse methods, but who are generally unqualified to express an opinion on the safety aspects.
("I've always done it" or "They do it in Maroc" arent qualifications.)
What happens abroad is a different issue. Also not really interested in the prices of gas in Maroc. (That's spelt Morocco, BTW)
Interested in what happens here.
Fuel stations in the UK dont have the equipment to allow self fill of cylinders.
If they did, they would advrtise it to increase profits.

Agree or disagree, up to yourselves. Dont care, but you will not do it near to me or mine without complaint on safety grounds.
I stand by my original post.
Stupid and irresponsible thing to do in the name of saving a few pennies.

Bet you switch your mobile phone off within 100 yds of a filling station as well !!

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[2657]

Just as I thought.

A lot of opinion but NO explanation why it is dangerous for ME to fill my Calor gas bottle myself.

Qualifications?

What qualifications?

Am I qualified to fill my Gaslow bottles at a self-service LPG point?

"They" let me do it all over the UK and Europe.

So if I am capable of filling my Gaslow bottles, pray explain to me why I am not capable of putting 12 litres of LPG in my Calor lite bottle. Please give me an intelligent explanation why you think I can't release pressure on the grip of the gun when 12 litres shows on the dial? (leaving plenty of safety margin.)

Some people are "stretched" when filling up their cars with petrol... (now there is a dangerous activity with excess fuel over flowing out of the filler tube etc) but they are all right are they? Qualified are they? Passed some sort of exam have they?

I really, really, really, really resent the suggestion that I am "stupid" and "irresponsible" by folk who are only spouting their own opinion based on what?

Stuff they have learned from reading Readers Letters to the likes of MMM maybe?

If you don't feel you are capable of re-filling gas bottles don't do it... I am not capable of flying 747s so I don't try.


JJ :Cool:

Don't forget JJ that you are but a humble retired street performer and bramble grower and I a humble haulier/driver whereas johnp10 is a lofty lecturer in road transport

 

[vwalan]

hi john p10 .maroc is a correct way of spelling morocco. its the french way . if you travelled you might pick up the lingo, ha ha . smile .
as it is they dont fill them at petrol stations . as far as i knowe only the big main gas depots . i use maroc bottles as they are only about 4 quid a throw . in spain i use spanish bottles . in fact i hardly ever use the filler but its nice to know i can if i want to. i actually hardly ever use uk bottles as they are too expensive . i come home with two sometimes three full bottles . that lkasts me . i also bring three tanks of diesel back . cant pay uk prices unless i have to. might even get up to the 1500litres allowed . in hung connected tanks . but dont worry i have adr . bye have fun . we only live once .

 

[johnp10]

Alan, We aint French, and gas cylinders used in the UK must meet our standards.


Matomoros, No I dont switch off there and I aint a "lordly" anything.
Nor would I be such a patronising git as to suggest that to anyone else.
I just have a problem with cowboy bits of kit and what I see as practices dangerous to me and mine.


I dont care what happens with continental cylinders designed for refill, the issue is here in the UK.


JJ, if you or anyone else can convince me that all cylinders self filled in the UK meet all requirements in terms of periodic inspection and certification and that all proper procedures are followed before, during and after the fill I will climb down.
In the UK, do the cylinders used meet periodic inspection requirements?
Does the actual owner of the cylinders, whether yoursewlves or the gas company that own them, have the approriate certificate?
Are the certificates in date?
Are the cylinders in date or out of test?
LPGs in cylinders are not measured in litres, although the fuel stations charge that way, they are measured in Kgs.
Stand the cylinder on a set of scales?

Vehicles with fitted LPG tanks and Gaslow systems are designed to be user filled.
Cylinders aint.

Definitely last word.

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[vwalan]

but not all calor tanks have 80%cut out thats my point i have a calor vehicle tank with out one . and the big tank in my garden is another . i assume calor think its ok .they own the tank.
many bottles do in fact quote litres on the bottle stamped in to them .
most bottles are made in portugal . thats very often stamped on them as well . lots of calor have it stamped on .

 

[johnp10]

but not all calor tanks have 80%cut out thats my point i have a calor vehicle tank with out one . and the big tank in my garden is another . i assume calor think its ok .they own the tank.

Alan,
We are talking about CYLINDERS.

 

[vwalan]

well the vehicle one i have is only a glorified bottle on its side .but altered supplied by calor in its own frame for bolting down . no 80%. just a bleed off valve as mentioned earlier and it gets checked about every ten years .

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[johnp10]

well the vehicle one i have is only a glorified bottle on its side .but altered supplied by calor in its own frame for bolting down . no 80%. just a bleed off valve as mentioned earlier and it gets checked about every ten years .

Still a fixed tank.
The inspection and re certification regime applies to cylinders as well as your tank.

That really is it from me, we'll soon going around in circles and covering old ground again.

 

[vwalan]

john .no harm meant and i hope none intended . we do have different views but yes lets call it quits till next time .hee hee . you have a good one . lifes too short really . cheers alan.go on crack a can .

 

[johnp10]

john .no harm meant and i hope none intended . we do have different views but yes lets call it quits till next time .hee hee . you have a good one . lifes too short really . cheers alan.go on crack a can .

:thumb:

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