Poor service Hawkshead

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by paulmold, Jan 12, 2011.

  1. paulmold

    paulmold Read Only Funster

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    Hawkshead, the outdoor clothes people, had a sale on before New Year with discounts of up to 75%. Each item showed what sizes/colours were still available and I ordered a pair of walking shoes (reduced from £36 to £14 )and paid by debit card, on New Years Eve, delivery quoted as 14 days.

    This morning (12days after I placed my order) I got an email saying order cancelled as they have run out of stock. What use is a website that tells you what availability is if it's wrong.

    Now of course there is nothing left of their sale stock and to add insult they have offered me a 5% discount (big deal) off my next order.
     
  2. Road Runner

    Road Runner Read Only Funster

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    Good to hear of good service but equally sad to hear of bad service.

    This surely is, as you say their computer should have known straight away your order could not be processed and leaving you open to shop elsewhere during the sale period.
     
  3. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    It is not as simple as that if you have multiple outlets such as retail shops, internet sales via website and amazon or ebay.

    One has to be a very large business to be able to afford a complex software programme like that.

    Only criticsm is that they took a long time to respond and refund.

    Peter
     
  4. GJH

    GJH Funster Life Member

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    That's fair comment regarding the system required to support multiple outlets. However, is it not the case that a business should advertise what it can support rather than advertise offers which it is not sure it can honour?
     
  5. Douglas

    Douglas Read Only Funster

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    If the company had 1000's of people making orders and they then returned their money after a 10 day but keeping it in some kind of account earning interest then they have a nice little earner!!!


    Doug...
     
  6. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Must be joking, the interest I get on substantial balances these days is pitiful, both private and business accounts.

    Used to be good two years ago but not worth the effort now, get 1% big deal.

    Peter
     
  7. Road Runner

    Road Runner Read Only Funster

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    Hawkhead is a very large business Peter and does a substantial amount of mail order so should have up to date software.

    I am XXXL sadly and often see things i must buy while available but rarely get further than just buy button as out of stock:cry:
     
  8. Chani

    Chani Read Only Funster

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    Sometimes the software screws up, sometimes the humans screw up. No system is perfect.

    I run an online shop. Don't get this problem very often, but it can happen. It's a shame they didn't check earlier, but maybe they didn't know until they started processing your order and realised the 'bin' was empty.
     
  9. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Hey Peter, Ill take 1% of someone elses dosh any time:thumb:
     
  10. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    It is basic contract law

    Peter

    It is basic first year contract law.. Offer and acceptance... Breach of contract.. Making an on line sale is no different to a postal order or telephone sale.. I would buy at the best rate possible and ask them them to pay the differance.....Called loss of chance,.. If you have all the paper work from the order being placed you will get a judgement in the county court. It is such a simple thing to do.

    Do not let them get away with it.

    I got a £25 sainsbury gift card fromZanussi to day after I waited in and the fitter did not have the spare part so wasted my time waiting in. Wanted £50... On legal letter.. they settle in 7 days.. Would I have taken it in to the small claims court? Yes and have done so before if I do not get what I paid for bewarned.

    But of interest Peter the Misrepresentation Act could be applied and that is a criminal matter via Trading Standards

    Out of interest I got £721.00 interest back and £100 after I start a complaint againt a credit card company .. Took many letters and involving the FSO. Started August last year.. This week they settled.

    Bob
     
  11. Douglas

    Douglas Read Only Funster

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    I'm not joking, If that money saved the company from borrowing from the bank it is a lot more that 1% that's involved. It is possible that the company could be keeping a rolling account with customers money, Banks do it!

    Doug...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  12. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    Good you had it in stock then

    Last week I telephone for an item... Fiama rear cycle reflector. Checked you had more than one in stock.. You had many I was told so I headed down to collect it... Good consideration made.. I.e phone call and petrol.. Getting the point Peter... No contract was made for the item until I coul see the quality.. So the offer was made by your staff I countered that offer... By making it subject to a term... Called battle of the forms... But if i had turned up at the time I stated then I could have claimed my fuel. If had paid for it over the phone then I could buy elsewhere even if more expensive and claimed the difference from you and my phone calls and fuel.

    So how can you give us 5% ..thank you.. If you are on 1% .

    Not fair may be but that is the law..

    Bob:Blush:
     
  13. Chani

    Chani Read Only Funster

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    Except that standard e-commerce contracts will state something like the following:

    "... acceptance of an order takes place when the order is dispatched. When we dispatch the order the purchase contract will be made ..."

    So no contract has been made until dispatch.

    Having said that, I can't find Hawkshead's T's and C's of sale, just their website usage terms. I hope that isn't ALL they have! :Eeek:
     
  14. Road Runner

    Road Runner Read Only Funster

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  15. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    Unfair contract terms apply

    They cannot rely on that clause.. It is illegal under the Unfair Contracts Terms Act..this fact has to be shown on the first page and not small print... Lord Dennng ..Master of the Rolls.. Top. Legal officer in his day... To many companis try it on... Does not matter how big they are, they are all accountable to the law.

    Bob
     
  16. Chani

    Chani Read Only Funster

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    But both sides have to agree to a contract. One side places an order, the other side has the option to accept it or not. If an e-commerce company couldn't cancel an order after it's been placed, the level of fraud would be astronomical.

    You have to bear in mind that nearly all, if not all, payment providers use the information given during the payment process (eg. does the billing/shipping address match that of the card? Did they successfully complete 3Dsecure/Verified by Visa? What country are they ordering from/shipping to?) to check for fraud. Orders are cancelled if they're not convinced it isn't fraudulent, and the T's and C's will state this.

    If it wasn't legal to do this it would have been successfully challenged in law by now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  17. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    Have a law library of cases where it has been proved

    That is why I went to University to get a law degree and spent 5 years doing so before I went in to practice.. I may have ended up doing criminal law, but I still had to do the 6 core subjects.. Contract law was one of them.

    You do not have to pay for an item to have a valid contract. Nothing even needs to be in writing... The offer is made by the advert .. Cahill Carbolic Soap way way back was the case law.. Still good law now.. Once an offer is made and it as been accepted.. It is binding on both parties.. Sorry but you are 101% wrong... Not interested in e commerce.. Does not remove black letter law. I have handled more than enough cases over the years when I was in practice.

    We had all the red herrings when fax came in, but the cases were dealt with.. ..postal rules applied.. Lots of interesting old cases still used in courts today.

    Postal rules dealt with delayed transmissions of offers.. Legal term..Swiss case Brinkibonk.. Still good law.. Beleive it or. Note, American, Canadian, and some European law sets precedent which is used in English law. I can suggest some light reading if you want.. Like last year when I offered and did bring the law books ..Wilkinsons Road Traffic Acts.. Re tugging a car.. Funny no one who challenged it wanted to see the law books.. Same here I expect... That is why I have the initials LL.b (Hons) after my name I have degree in law....Bachelor of Laws.:Blush:

    Bob.:Angry:
     
  18. Chani

    Chani Read Only Funster

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    Hey, I'm not trying to have an argument, I'm trying to have a discussion! Am I not allowed to disagree/discuss/question because you have qualifications?
     
  19. paulmold

    paulmold Read Only Funster

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    Thanks to those who have taken the trouble to give me support. I have to say that Hawksheads website does not include T & C's of a transaction , only as already mentioned, conditions of using the site and the use of the sites e-community. Nevertheless the email I received this morning states that no money has been taken from my debit card so presumably they think no contract has taken place.

    My biggest annoyance with the whole thing is that they took so long to tell me I was not going to get the shoes, that I have missed the sales of other outdoor retailers.

    I have shopped at Hawkshead for many years, from when it was a much bigger company than it is now and will probably continue to do so but only in their shops and never again by mail-order.
     
  20. 656

    656 Read Only Funster

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    :Eeek::Eeek::Eeek::Eeek:
     
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