Petition - To create allocated overnight parking areas for motorhomes (1 Viewer)

[Sidney]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/187743

Started yesterday and has 3,700+ signatures already.

At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition.

At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament.

While it may not change anything immediately it does raise awareness of the desire.

@Jim - Worthy of going on the front page news section?

 

[Gizmouk]

 

[Wombles]

Worth a try

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[buttons]

 

[Kingham]

Petition 187743 already up and running

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/petition.149030/

 

[eddie]

I would guess that there is nearly always a "Petition" asking for Aires

What is wrong with CL's for those that don't want to use sites?

Or are we asking for some one to pay and maintain places that people with a camper can used completely free of charge?

I have to pay to park my car in a car park, why shouldn't I expect to pay to overnight in a car park? If I am paying, why wouldn't I want to go to a local CL where I would be much happier

I think some one would have to prove and demonstrate a pressing need before anyone would take it seriously. I doubt if there are a 100,000 motorhomes on the road so getting to that figure will be challenging lol

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pyro]

Agreed, Eddie, in principle. But the published facts state:

In Britain, currently in use there are approximately:

• 550,000 touring caravans
• more than 205,000 motorhomes
• more than 300,000 caravan holiday homes

From

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Another one?

Really?

Does that make it about twenty in the last year?

 

[eddie]

Agreed, Eddie, in principle. But the published facts state:



From

Possibly, but the reality is that these petitions come around every year and always fail miserably

So one can only conclude that no-one in the UK is actually that fussed about the lack of Aires

If there were Aires, I may stay on one from time to time, but I mainly want water, waste, wifi and hook up when I go away.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[pyro]

Not sure I have yet seen a petition that has achieved anything but a trite response from "the government"

Point taken

 

[Popeye]

I have used the CS network from C&CC and have yet to find a poor one, they seem plentiful to me. One in particular I use if visiting the NEC is quite outstanding.

ps I signed the petition even though I'm not convinced it will help but rather than just not sign and then say I don't think it will work, a bit defeatist, that seems

 

[Deleted member 29692]

These petitions every 10 minutes are a great example of the reason why there will never be aires or parking places or whatever in this country.

Instead of putting some effort in themselves, identifying potential sites, researching the potential demand for spaces and the benefits to the local area, then collating this information and taking it to the relevant local authority all these people seem to want to do is demand someone else does it all for them.

The few people, such as Graham @GJH, who do put the work in are fighting an impossible battle against the freeloaders that think they have some sort of right to demand everything just be presented to them on a plate.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[eddie]

I do like the Aires in France, but tend to think that they are more utilised as of course being in the middle of (what I still think of as) Europe, you have a lot of cross border travelling through and around France. We of course wouldn't benefit from anywhere near the same extent.

I suspect that any Aires that the local authority did provide would be woefully underused, certainly through the winter. Gypsies/New Ages travellers/scummy people, et all would move in, taking over the place, with the ensuing bad press loss or money, inconvenience etc

I opened a purpose built campsite in 2005 after lots of arguements with locals and the Planning Office

Despite the site now employing people and being a definite asset to the local pubs, restaurants, Taxi firms, take aways and shops we are still battling with our local authority about stupid things

Currently they want to remove about 6 Brown amenity highway signs directing people to the campsite as they are "unnecessary"

So I don't hold my breath that anyone is going to persuade local authorities like mine to pay for overnight camper stops! They don't give a shit!

 

[andy63]

I do like the Aires in France, but tend to think that they are more utilised as of course being in the middle of (what I still think of as) Europe, you have a lot of cross border travelling through and around France. We of course wouldn't benefit from anywhere near the same extent.

I suspect that any Aires that the local authority did provide would be woefully underused, certainly through the winter. Gypsies/New Ages travellers/scummy people, et all would move in, taking over the place, with the ensuing bad press loss or money, inconvenience etc

I opened a purpose built campsite in 2005 after lots of arguements with locals and the Planning Office

Despite the site now employing people and being a definite asset to the local pubs, restaurants, Taxi firms, take aways and shops we are still battling with our local authority about stupid things

Currently they want to remove about 6 Brown amenity highway signs directing people to the campsite as they are "unnecessary"

So I don't hold my breath that anyone is going to persuade local authorities like mine to pay for overnight camper stops! They don't give a shit!

Hi Eddie... I think your post makes the point that a lot of the local authorities as you say don't give a shit... even when a case can be made.. and put far too many obstacles in the way...
It's a mind set that annoys people but as has been mentioned it would take a lot of effort to try and change that attitude .... and life is too short for most of us to take up the challenge.
Andy

 

[GeriatricWanderer]

In the UK there are C&MC Club sites and their CLs. There are C&CC Club sites and their CS's and there are hundreds of independant campsites. A number of motorhome stop groups with hundreds of available sites. Various wilding groups list hundreds of potentail sites. All with simple to use search facilities.

Interesting if some statistician could work out the ratio of available sites vs motorhomes on the UK roads. It wouldn't surprise me if we were quite "rich" in available "sites".

If I were a LA Planning Officer I'd have those numbers at my fingertips to repel the next petition. "Why should my Council Tax payers finance something that is unnecessary and for such a minority group of mostly well off people who probably don't live locally?"

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[andy63]

minority group of mostly well off people who probably don't live locally?"

But who will spend money as they travel... on food, drink ,visitor attractions , eating and drinking out, fuel, ferries etc... it all adds up and if facilities can be put in place at a fair cost then the experience is stress free and enjoyable, you will want to go back and others will come...
Andy

 

[Allanm]

Too much apathy from government and councils and animosity from people who don't want Aires in the UK.
There's no point identifying potential sites for the establishing of Aires and approaching local councils, as again, nothing will happen and you just waste your time.
There will become a point where motorhomes are clogging up towns and cities and then, maybe, some councillors with a bit of foresight, may think that providing an aire locally will alleviate congestion.
Canterbury managed to do it by providing 2 Aires in the town at reasonable rates, as has Bury St Edmunds and a few others.
It can be done and seeing as both these sites can be vary busy for most of the year, there is a need.
I just feel sorry for foreign motorhomers coming to the UK, it must seem like a very backward place to them, when they can park, often for free, at popular places in their own country.

 

[eddie]

But who will spend money as they travel... on food, drink ,visitor attractions , eating and drinking out, fuel, ferries etc... it all adds up and if facilities can be put in place at a fair cost then the experience is stress free and enjoyable, you will want to go back and others will come...
Andy

Why would you expect people to pay for such things when they refuse to pay a few pounds for safe provided camping such as a CL

Most peoples experience with motorhomes and overnighting off sites is watching in annoyance parked in the way, blocking the view, waste water dripping out and running down the road, bags of rubbish hanging around leaving a mess when the finally depart

Perhaps this is why the continentals are clamping down on wild camping as well.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[andy63]

Why would you expect people to pay for such things when they refuse to pay a few pounds for safe provided camping such as a CL

Most peoples experience with motorhomes and overnighting off sites is watching in annoyance parked in the way, blocking the view, waste water dripping out and running down the road, bags of rubbish hanging around leaving a mess when the finally depart

Perhaps this is why the continentals are clamping down on wild camping as well.

Because I am quite happy to pay for facilities that are provided and assume most are like me....
I go out of my way to use pubs ,shops etc on my travels..and let them know I am a motor homer. ..
If there's a burger van in the lay by I'll use that rather than sit in the van and make a cuppa...
I leave most places I wild in at least as clean as when I arrive and quite often cleaner ... I'd rather do that than have folk think the mess was left by me..
I don't know where you get that most people's experience is as you describe...
I wild a fair bit and go out of my way to use local facilities and usually feel that's it's appreciated.... to the point that I've often been told to just ignore the signs and park up... they know I'll buy a meal and have a few pints and use the local shops...
In the main that's my outlook and experience..
Andy.

 

[Littlewheels]

Petitions are a complete waste of time !! I never read of the Industry making any attempt to take care of itself?

I read regularly of the Growth in Manufacturing of Both Motorhomes and Caravans, this creates Jobs,Exports,Et Al and yet I never read of the Manufacturers promoting its growth at Goverment level expressing a need for the advancement Campsites,Camperstops,Aires,etc,etc and yet these Manufacturers are expanding at an alarming rate i.e.: Trigano.

I don't agree at all with the we want to park for free brigade but the sad fact is if more of the above were created it's another valued asset for the users and more Jobs and income for said Goverment on the back of a growth business.

 

[pyro]

Seems to me that petitions are a waste of time, window dressing for a despot government that will just do as it pleases, regardless of the people's wishes

However, what does it cost to sign one of these petitions? From the industry statistics (the link again is ) :

What contribution does the industry make to our economy?

The touring caravan, motorhome and caravan holiday home industry contributes more than £6 billion per annum to the UK economy (new/used retail sales, plus holiday and related spend).

Hardly sounds insignificant, does it?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[eddie]

Because I am quite happy to pay for facilities that are provided and assume most are like me....
I go out of my way to use pubs ,shops etc on my travels..and let them know I am a motor homer. ..
If there's a burger van in the lay by I'll use that rather than sit in the van and make a cuppa...
I leave most places I wild in at least as clean as when I arrive and quite often cleaner ... I'd rather do that than have folk think the mess was left by me..
I don't know where you get that most people's experience is as you describe...
I wild a fair bit and go out of my way to use local facilities and usually feel that's it's appreciated.... to the point that I've often been told to just ignore the signs and park up... they know I'll buy a meal and have a few pints and use the local shops...
In the main that's my outlook and experience..
Andy.

I agree, and I tend to be the same, if there is rubbish around I will clear it to avoid anyone thinking it is me.

You are though screwed by the dirty scummy bastards that don't spend a penny, make a mess and don't care who they upset.

We get people pulling in, onto our campsite, late at night, who use everything and get up really early and bugger off. Our answer would be to install barriers but I refuse to change our easy go attitude because of such tossers

Sadly there are too many people who would abuse the system and ruin it for us all.

Just to be clear, I am not arguing against Aires, I am all for it, but, having seen the same arguments for years, I think that too few people really want them, and that would leave a higher percentage of abusers to users

Of course, lets not loose site of the fact that anyone that really feels strongly about it can open up their land, quiet legally and become a motorhome FUN Aire! Jim even has the application forms!

 

[andy63]

You have an advantage over me in that you run a site (a very nice one I might add that I've had the pleasure of staying on a couple times ) and see things I don't. .
It's sad and hard to comprehend how people have the neck to do that and bugger off without paying..
I suppose deep down I know because of that sort of behaviour wild camping will be harder without upsetting locals but as I said I do my best to make folk see the more positive side... it's what I enjoy most about travelling,meeting folk and seeing the more remote parts of the country...
Andy.
PS... you will be settling down for a wk end of rugby

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Seems to me that petitions are a waste of time, window dressing for a despot government that will just do as it pleases, regardless of the people's wishes

Why on earth should it have anything to do with the government?

Like it or not we're a tiny tiny minority. The idea that anyone be it at national or local government level should be forced to spend money providing facilities for us that would more than likely only get minimal use is quite frankly ridiculous. It's actually more than ridiculous but I'd be breaking rule 1 if I posted what I really think of the people who keep on perpetuating these stupid "petitions"

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DanielFord]

To be honest, these petitions are never ever going to do anything. Perhaps getting individual local councils to understand the financial benefits of offering camperstops is a better way forward.

The best, and most efficient camperstop we have ever been to was located here:
https://goo.gl/maps/YrpZSbJCeQQ2

It is a municipal site, and totally unstaffed, and it costs €15 if you don't want electric, 0.50c more if you do. You arrive and stop on the approach, there is a vending machine, which has English as well as Dutch instructions. You select length of stay, and any extras (like electricity) then put in you debit card. It gives you a ticket with a number on it, you then drive up to the gate, and type in that number on the key pad and the barrier opens. Absolutely brilliant!

This is an idea I feel one could sell to local councils.

 

[Abacist]

Nobody has mentioned the need to cater for foreign visitors who, if European, will be used to the Aires/Stellplatz system abroad and who won't have access to club CL's. There are lots of foreign tourists looking for somewhere to stay and towns would do well to consider the potential attraction of having a municipal site/overnight car park with limited facilities for up to say £10 per night inclusive of water and waste but electric, if provided should be metered and chargeable.

If appropriate restriction were imposed it would give people the chance to have a taster of an area for say a couple of nights but then they should be encouraged on to sites to avoid hogging the facilities to the exclusion of others.

Literring and emptying grey and black water other than in provided facilities should be heavily fined!

 

[Deleted member 29692]

To be honest, these petitions are never ever going to do anything. Perhaps getting individual local councils to understand the financial benefits of offering camperstops is a better way forward.

The best, and most efficient camperstop we have ever been to was located here:
https://goo.gl/maps/YrpZSbJCeQQ2

It is a municipal site, and totally unstaffed, and it costs €15 if you don't want electric, 0.50c more if you do. You arrive and stop on the approach, there is a vending machine, which has English as well as Dutch instructions. You select length of stay, and any extras (like electricity) then put in you debit card. It gives you a ticket with a number on it, you then drive up to the gate, and type in that number on the key pad and the barrier opens. Absolutely brilliant!

This is an idea I feel one could sell to local councils.

I think most councils would be very reluctant to spend anything like the amount of money that sort of system would cost without any guarantee of returns.

To start with just getting them to permit overnighting in existing car parks is the thing that has most chance of success. Then if the income is proven they might be more receptive to the idea of spending money on adding more facilities.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[iandsm]

Why would you expect people to pay for such things when they refuse to pay a few pounds for safe provided camping such as a CL

Most peoples experience with motorhomes and overnighting off sites is watching in annoyance parked in the way, blocking the view, waste water dripping out and running down the road, bags of rubbish hanging around leaving a mess when the finally depart

Perhaps this is why the continentals are clamping down on wild camping as well.

When I am in France or Germany I almost exclusively use aires and I always spend money in local restaurants and shops. I don't object to paying for an aire either. If a local council in the UK installed an aire I would use it if it was on my route just the same as I would use one in Europe and I would spend money locally. However I take your point about travellers etc and although I think a local council here should, if it wished to, be able to provide an aire, sadly I think the petition will get nowhere. I also take your point about there being plenty of CL's available. However I would point out that many are nothing more than a field with a tap and a charge of around £12 and in many cases £15 represents very poor value.

I have to say, and no offence intended, your second paragraph, "Most peoples experience with motorhomes and overnighting off sites is watching in annoyance parked in the way, blocking the view, waste water dripping out and running down the road, bags of rubbish hanging around leaving a mess when the finally depart" appears erroneous in the extreme, how could you possibly know what most peoples experience of motorhomes night be might be. Also I expect there are a great many motorhomes who do not behave in the manner you describe and who would be pretty annoyed at your false assumption/accusation that they do.

As it happens I don't wild camp in the UK but sometimes I do in Europe. I can assure you that I always park with consideration for local people and I never ever leave the waste dripping or leave any rubbish behind. The only thing I leave is the money I have spent locally, together with, I hope a good impression.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

However I take your point about travellers etc and although I think a local council here should, if it wished to, be able to provide an aire

They can!!!

 

[andy63]

To start with just getting them to permit overnighting in existing car parks is the thing that has most chance of success. Then if the income is proven they might be more receptive to the idea of spending money on adding more facilities.

I've put that view forward before ,and had a rather negative view that for various reasons ranging from weight restrictions to the park not been available for cars in the morning etc etc it wouldn't be possible in most car parks... I suppose there would have to be by laws passed to permit it... authorities don't seem to be prepared to make even that effort never mind spend money to accommodate motor home overnighting.
In Scotland where these stop overs have been created it appears to have been the local communities that have made the effort to facilitate motor homes ...more often than not for a fee...
If it proves successful where its been done then I'm sure others will follow suit...
Andy.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}