Payload Clarification (1 Viewer)

[rikardo]

We're hoping to view a hymer 544 motorhome tomorrow.

Whilst doing a few background checks in advance, it has come to light that the Revenue Weight is stated on the GOV.uk website as 3900kg. This puts it as a ducato 18 MWB.

Holding only a Cat B license we are restricted to 3.5T. Is it possible the payload will be registered as 3.5T on the V5? would an HPI check clarify this? similar threads seem to suggest the payloads were often downgraded to allow the general population to drive them. We will enquire with the vendor in the morning if this isn't a simple answer.

Thanks in advance.

 

[TheBig1]

if its 3900 kg on the gov.uk site, that is what dvsa have on record so also on the v5

 

[Allanm]

What you might be able to do, is downgrade the revenue weight to 3.5tonnes, then you can drive it on your licence. ( lots of info on here about upgrading and downgrading weights)
But first, you will need to know the payload and this can only be done reliably at a weighbridge
You might find then that at 3.5 tonnes, you have no capacity to carry anything so won't be able to use the van
You are far better looking at 3.5 tonne vans and checking payloads.

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[rikardo]

Thanks for the quick advice. We'll be quicker at checking the payload status in future, had automatically assumed it to be 3.5T . The search continues.

 

[Lenny HB]

The 544 is small and they are possible to run at 3.5 providing not too many heavy extras have been fitted. If you are really keen on the van get it to a weighbridge as it's only a paper exercise to downplated.

 

[DP+JAY]

Thanks for the quick advice. We'll be quicker at checking the payload status in future, had automatically assumed it to be 3.5T . The search continues.

I'm not sure you understand the term "payload". The payload is the difference between the plated or revenue weight & the MIRO (mass in running order) or kerb weight. This defines the carrying capacity for anything you want to take with you including driver, passengers, food, clothing etc. Etc. The only way to determine this accurately is to weigh the the vehicle on a weighbridge & subtract that weight from the revenue weight. For a driver & one passenger I would suggest a minimum payload of at least 400kg maybe more if you want to take bikes etc.

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[JeanLuc]

Although this earlier posting refers to a different Hymer, it may help to explain the weight issue that you should understand before proceeding. http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/weights-payload-veh.123072/#post-1711284

 

[rikardo]

Thanks for the comments, overlooked this in our search so far.

 

[Lenny HB]

Have a look at the Certificate of Conformity, it will have MIRO weights on it, the MIRO which is the design weight of the vehicle and The Technical MIRO wich will be MIRO including factory fitted extras. Only one sure way and that is get it onto a weighbridge.

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[Rabbitheartedgirl]

Have just been looking at out MH weight in a PDFs of our modelshandbook (didn't know about payloads til I came on here)

The Max Mass in 3400 kg ( there is an option to 3850 kg) Not sure if the lady we purchased it off went for that when she ordered it new.
MIRO is 2939kg. Max payload 461kg However it then states 139 kg essential habitation.

So...... Do I subtract 139kg off the payload or.... Has the max payload the figure had the 139 kg subtracted?

Am sure someone can help me out on this

 

[DP+JAY]

Have just been looking at out MH weight in a PDFs of our modelshandbook (didn't know about payloads til I came on here)

The Max Mass in 3400 kg ( there is an option to 3850 kg) Not sure if the lady we purchased it off went for that when she ordered it new.
MIRO is 2939kg. Max payload 461kg However it then states 139 kg essential habitation.

So...... Do I subtract 139kg off the payload or.... Has the max payload the figure had the 139 kg subtracted?

Am sure someone can help me out on this

It is not possible to determine your payload accurately from brochures or handbooks, these are only a guide & in many cases the difference in weight between the book weight & the weighbridge weight can be as much as 5% or more(125kg). The book weight is based on the "expected" ex works weight before any extras have been fitted.

 

[Rabbitheartedgirl]

Thanks for info

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[gus-lopez]

The only way is take it to the weighbridge either completely empty & full of fuel/water & then that figure deducted from the
MGW (max mass ) will give you any payload that is remaining

 

[Rabbitheartedgirl]

OH has just told me how much the wine etc weighs! Am shocked

 

[Emmit]

Don't buy bottles, Buy cartons. No glass, only a bit of cardboard and the plastic. More wine per kilo. Simples

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[vwalan]

soon mounts up . if you drink 3 small cans beer a night and are in uk for 6 months you need to bring home i552 cans thats 184 kg plus the cans. add a litre of wine and thats another 184kg . thats only for one person . ha ha never mind the brandy etc . oh and extra fuel in extra tanks .

 

[sedge]

Slightly off topic here - but I'm not sure what the O/P meant when he referred to the 'general populace'.

In the UK (I can't include any other country cos God knows LOL) it was only comparatively recently - January 1997 - that they changed things so that the normal car driving test was reduced down to 3.5 T

Surely the people holding licences granted since then (19 years) don't exceed the number still with the previous entitlements together with the later people who also upped their own limits with further tests? In which case aren't there still more folk with the old 'C1' than without? Especially as under all normal circumstances, no-one under 25 can get anyone to insure them to drive a Moho at all?

 

[gerry mcg]

Can I ask some a payload question please?
I've just got my CoC for my new 6m Globecar PVC which I'm importing in early Jan - so i'll need to fill in the requisite DVLA forms.
this is the weight info on my Globecar CoC

13 translates to "Mass of the vehicle being driven: 2910kg"
13.2 translates to "Actual mass of the vehicle" 3067kg" and
16 translates to "Technically permissible maximum mass"
16.1 transits to "Technically permissible total mass in loaded condition 3499kg"
with 16.2 about axle weights and 16.4 about towing weight

so what are is the
Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM)
Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass (MTPLM) (3499kg?)
Mass in running Order (MIRO) (3067kg?)
I read the MIRO is the weight of the motorhome as it left the factory (with extras such as factory extra battery, a full tank of fuel and an average driver weight of 75kg, but before any other contents are added)
payload (3499kg - 3067kg = 432kg)?

thanks!

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[gerry mcg]

the brochure weighs were as above

 

[Lenny HB]

The MIRO is as you say includes 90% fuel, 20 Lt water, 1x 11kg aluminium gas bottle & driver @ 75kg. The Technical mass is the MIRO plus factory fitted extras.
On the DVLA form it asked for unladen weight I think I just put down the MIRO.
If you want an accurate unladen weight figure you need to take gas bottles out weight without driver, empty tanks and take off weight of any fuel. DVLA never check anything so don't worry about it too much.

Don't forget to add to the technical mass any extras the dealer or you have fitted, looks like it might be a bit tight running at 3500kg.

 

[gerry mcg]

thanks... we have added an awning, so say 30kg for that.
It is just the 2 of us and a spaniel plus a couple of mtb which are <15kg each, so I think we should be okay below 3500kg.
we tend to pack light anyway

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[Lenny HB]

You probably won't carry as much junk in a PVC, in our A class we had about 450kg ended up upgrading to 3850 still at the limit on the rear axle, new van will have about 1300kg payload so I can take loads of junk I'll never use.

 

[Minxy]

The 2 figures on my Globecar (which is a 6.3m one so a bit heavier than yours out of the factory) are:

So the figures you need are:

• 13. = 2910kg for F.1: Max. permissible mass
• 16.1 = 3499kg for G. Mass in service

 

[gerry mcg]

brill! thanks!

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[Lenny HB]

The 2 figures on my Globecar (which is a 6.3m one so a bit heavier than yours out of the factory) are:

View attachment 138475

So the figures you need are:

• 13. = 2910kg for F.1: Max. permissible mass
• 16.1 = 3499kg for G. Mass in service

The mass in service does not include factory fitted options but the Technical Mass in service does @GM is correct with his assumption.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Also don't trust the figures you get in any books, brouchures the CoC or anything else from the manufacturers.

Most converters are notorious for using completely made up hopelessly optimistic figures.

As has already been said if you want an accurate figure the only way you will get it is from a trip to the weigh bridge.

 

[Lenny HB]

Also don't trust the figures you get in any books, brouchures the CoC or anything else from the manufacturers.
.

In my experience the C of C figures are spot on also both the new Hymers we have had have been under the given brochure weight.

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[Minxy]

The mass in service does not include factory fitted options but the Technical Mass in service does @GM is correct with his assumption.

This is what my COC says and my Globecar has the lower figure, ie 2995 kg on the V5C, NOT 3027kg.

 

[Minxy]

The mass in service does not include factory fitted options but the Technical Mass in service does @GM is correct with his assumption.

The filled fuel tank and driver weight are superfluous to the VEHICLE's unladen weight as they can be ANY weight depending on the amount of fuel in and the size of the driver! Similarly the extra leisure battery can be removed so should not be included either.

I stand by my view that it is the lower weight that should be used, ie 2995kg. If you DO set it to the higher weight, ie 3067kg you will then be subject to LOWER speed limits in the UK which is based on the unladen weight of 3050kg, not the maximum weight as they do abroad.

So if I was the OP I'd put 2995kg on the paperwork, NOT 3067kg ...

 

[Lenny HB]

There is a line on the V5 that says "mass in service" but it is normally left blank on a motorhome mine is.
When registering you are asked for unladen weight, neither figure is correct for that. Mass in service would be the higher technical mass figure which includes factory fitted options so in theory your V5 is incorrect.