Payload Again - AS Kingham (1 Viewer)

[Kingham]

I mentioned previously that I was hoping the payload on my Auto-Sleeper Kingham would be sufficient without uprating, but that I also thought I would be close and probably would have to go down that route.

I've now confirmed that I definitely will need to uprate and it will be a priority when I get home.

I set off on Monday with no passenger, nearly full diesel, full gas (25L), full fresh, awning, a few clothes, a few day's supply of food and my Labrador.

I took a short detour to a self weigh station.... Front axle 1680kg (Max 2100) Rear axle 1740kg (Max 2400) Total 3420kg (Max 3500)

I'm ok for this trip, but seeing as I'm in Scotland getting a 'high lift' kayak rack fitted, which in turn will have a sea kayak, possibly 2 loaded, I've still got to carry my bike, which is more than likely to require a tow bar and tow bar cycle carrier and my Cadac will need to go in when the weather picks up.

At least moving up to 4250kg max will take me to PHGV status for taxation.

 

[2657]

I mentioned previously that I was hoping the payload on my Auto-Sleeper Kingham would be sufficient without uprating, but that I also thought I would be close and probably would have to go down that route.

I've now confirmed that I definitely will need to uprate and it will be a priority when I get home.

I set off on Monday with no passenger, nearly full diesel, full gas (25L), full fresh, awning, a few clothes, a few day's supply of food and my Labrador.

I took a short detour to a self weigh station.... Front axle 1680kg (Max 2100) Rear axle 1740kg (Max 2400) Total 3420kg (Max 3500)

I'm ok for this trip, but seeing as I'm in Scotland getting a 'high lift' kayak rack fitted, which in turn will have a sea kayak, possibly 2 loaded, I've still got to carry my bike, which is more than likely to require a tow bar and tow bar cycle carrier and my Cadac will need to go in when the weather picks up.

At least moving up to 4250kg max will take me to PHGV status for taxation.

That's a massive difference between the original plated weight of 3500 and the possible MGW of 4500 and the more practical MGW of 4250, to me it shows that converters are aiming to keep vans within driving licence considerations at the expense of usability.

Incidentally where is the self weigh facility in your area, I will be visiting my Daughters in Sunderland in the summer, I have tried the self weigh facility at Morley twice in the last year and both times it has been out of action.

 

[Badknee]

3500kgs is an EU thing as we were always capped @7.5 ton. I wonder if we will get that back?

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[Kingham]

........
Incidentally where is the self weigh facility in your area, I will be visiting my Daughters in Sunderland in the summer, I have tried the self weigh facility at Morley twice in the last year and both times it has been out of action.

Don't know if it's the site wifi, but I can't find a link for you. If you are travelling north on the A19 to your daughter's, you will pass very close to it. It's on the A181 Durham/Hartlepool road at the top of the slip road from the A19.

I've dropped a pin on the screen shot, just be aware that the instructions say to press a button and wait for a green light before driving slowly over the sensor. There is no green light ! Wait for the weight display to zero, then drive over the sensor and read off the display.

 

[Emmit]

3500kgs is an EU thing as we were always capped @7.5 ton. I wonder if we will get that back?

If what you're saying is true @Badknee (and I've no reason to doubt it) maybe that information is worthy of pointing out to the Lawmakers for when we come out of the EU.
It's very easy for the shortsighted to maintain the status quo from immediately before we left but to remind them that we all took a hit on joining Europe and returning to the former ie 7.5 tonnes is what should be the norm when we all become 'Little Islanders' once more.

 

[Badknee]

If what you're saying is true @Badknee (and I've no reason to doubt it) maybe that information is worthy of pointing out to the Lawmakers for when we come out of the EU.
It's very easy for the shortsighted to maintain the status quo from immediately before we left but to remind them that we all took a hit on joining Europe and returning to the former ie 7.5 tonnes is what should be the norm when we all become 'Little Islanders' once more.

They have moved the goalposts on towing as well. When I passed my test in 1972 I could tow anything and drive up to a 7.5t vehicle. My lads are restricted to 3500kgs and can only tow up to 750kgs without taking a 'trailer test' so no caravans (the youngest pulls a trailer tent).
I just wondered if the entitlements would be reinstated?

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[Emmit]

They have moved the goalposts on towing as well. When I passed my test in 1972 I could tow anything and drive up to a 7.5t vehicle. My lads are restricted to 3500kgs and can only tow up to 750kgs without taking a 'trailer test' so no caravans (the youngest pulls a trailer tent).
I just wondered if the entitlements would be reinstated?

No quite so. (But I'm sure you're right with the license you had prior to 1974 when we joined.)
Your lads CAN tow a caravan assuming they are post 1997 passers BUT,
The Car has to weigh more than the 'Van and the overall weight of both of them put together cannot be more than 3.5 tonnes. That's the Gross as specified, not what they weigh on the day.
In other words, they can't use a Range Rover to tow anything that is a caravan, (other than an unbraked trailer weighing less than 750kgs). but they could go for a lightweight 2 berth 'van towed by a medium/small car (can't quote any specific cars but there are loads around.)

 

[2657]

Don't know if it's the site wifi, but I can't find a link for you. If you are travelling north on the A19 to your daughter's, you will pass very close to it. It's on the A181 Durham/Hartlepool road at the top of the slip road from the A19.

I've dropped a pin on the screen shot, just be aware that the instructions say to press a button and wait for a green light before driving slowly over the sensor. There is no green light ! Wait for the weight display to zero, then drive over the sensor and read off the display.

View attachment 158496

Thanks very much for that, last summer i did a google search for weighbridges in the area and that did not show up, I have weighed it on a plate weighbridge at a scrapyard but wanted more accurate axle weights

 

[SpeedyDux]

I mentioned previously that I was hoping the payload on my Auto-Sleeper Kingham would be sufficient without uprating, but that I also thought I would be close and probably would have to go down that route.

I've now confirmed that I definitely will need to uprate and it will be a priority when I get home.

I set off on Monday with no passenger, nearly full diesel, full gas (25L), full fresh, awning, a few clothes, a few day's supply of food and my Labrador.

I took a short detour to a self weigh station.... Front axle 1680kg (Max 2100) Rear axle 1740kg (Max 2400) Total 3420kg (Max 3500)

I'm ok for this trip, but seeing as I'm in Scotland getting a 'high lift' kayak rack fitted, which in turn will have a sea kayak, possibly 2 loaded, I've still got to carry my bike, which is more than likely to require a tow bar and tow bar cycle carrier and my Cadac will need to go in when the weather picks up.

At least moving up to 4250kg max will take me to PHGV status for taxation.

Crikey, how much does your Labrador weigh?

Could you downsize it .. to a Jack Russell ..

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[Lenny HB]

Am I right in assuming you ordered it on the Maxi chassis but kept the weight at 3500kg or is that how they are supplied?

 

[Kingham]

No quite so. (But I'm sure you're right with the license you had prior to 1974 when we joined.)
Your lads CAN tow a caravan assuming they are post 1997 passers BUT,
The Car has to weigh more than the 'Van and the overall weight of both of them put together cannot be more than 3.5 tonnes. That's the Gross as specified, not what they weigh on the day.
In other words, they can't use a Range Rover to tow anything that is a caravan, (other than an unbraked trailer weighing less than 750kgs). but they could go for a lightweight 2 berth 'van towed by a medium/small car (can't quote any specific cars but there are loads around.)

That's correct and it's surprising how many folk are still getting it wrong. For simplicity of summing up, a youngster on the new licence regime, can drive a 2000kg car and legally tow up to a maximum weight caravan of 1500kg.
Only if they want to go above that max tow figure, will they need to take a trailer test.

 

[Kingham]

Crikey, how much does your Labrador weigh?

Could you downsize it .. to a Jack Russell ..

He's got sharp teeth and easily upset, especially if he hears someone calling him fat .... Which with stumpy legs and weighing 5.5 stone, he is !!

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[Kingham]

Am I right in assuming you ordered it on the Maxi chassis but kept the weight at 3500kg or is that how they are supplied?

Yes, maxi chassis and yes, that's how they are supplied.

My dealer was prepared to uprate, only via SVTech and at my expense, but I thought it best to wait and get it weighed, which also opens up a choice of where I go for the uprate.

 

[Emmit]

That's correct and it's surprising how many folk are still getting it wrong. For simplicity of summing up, a youngster on the new licence regime, can drive a 2000kg car and legally tow up to a maximum weight caravan of 1500kg.
Only if they want to go above that max tow figure, will they need to take a trailer test.

The reason I know the above is because, gulp, I have to admit, blush, that I used to be, hangs head in shame, a Tugger. There I've said it. I'm now going to flagellate, (I was very careful when typing that last word) myself until cleansed.

 

[Kingham]

The reason I know the above is because, gulp, I have to admit, blush, that I used to be, hangs head in shame, a Tugger. There I've said it. I'm now going to flagellate, (I was very careful when typing that last word) myself until cleansed.

That's my background too, trailer tents before that and a frame tent before that

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[gus-lopez]

They have moved the goalposts on towing as well. When I passed my test in 1972 I could tow anything and drive up to a 7.5t vehicle. My lads are restricted to 3500kgs and can only tow up to 750kgs without taking a 'trailer test' so no caravans (the youngest pulls a trailer tent).
I just wondered if the entitlements would be reinstated?

the proposal at the moment to introduce a law ,making all existing EU laws legal in the UK,at the moment of exit would mean that would be a no to start with. If after when they go through all & every one to see which they wish to keep it might get changed again. I doubt it though as " in the interests of safety" will be used to justify it.

 

[Emmit]

Forgot to mention (washing my mouth out as I do so) at giving yet more info about tugging re this.
It is important to not exceed the train weight of the tug. Some cars don't have a lot on top of their Gross and that can cause probs.

 

[ymfb]

Yes, maxi chassis and yes, that's how they are supplied.

My dealer was prepared to uprate, only via SVTech and at my expense, but I thought it best to wait and get it weighed, which also opens up a choice of where I go for the uprate.

Is this up-rating the suspension ?

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[DBK]

Is this up-rating the suspension ?

Not normally, the Maxi chassis on mine can be uprated to 4250Kg as a simple paper exercise. Some other vehicles may need suspension or tyre changes.
You can't certify the uprating yourself, it can only be done by someone DVLC recognise as competent.

 

[Emmit]

On a similar theme, I was talking to my next door french neighbour on an Aire. He also had a Hobby but newer than ours and he was struggling with payload. Hobby's weigh a lot before you add anything.
He told me that in France, there seems to be no 'Grandads Rights'. Everyone has 3.5tonnes and that's it. He was saying that the only way he can carry more is with a small unbraked trailer, no uprating the 'van for him.They HAVE to take a test regardless to drive anything with a MAM that exceeds 3.5 T, (and the bloke I would imagine was old enough to have the Rights)
It would seem that the 'Rights' were given to us Brits when we threw in our hand into Euro Licences.

 

[ymfb]

Not normally, the Maxi chassis on mine can be uprated to 4250Kg as a simple paper exercise. Some other vehicles may need suspension or tyre changes.
You can't certify the uprating yourself, it can only be done by someone DVLC recognise as competent.

Thanks for that.

What are the negatives for doing it

Cost ?
Increased Insurance ?

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[Kingham]

Is this up-rating the suspension ?

Just as @DBK says, the maxi chassis needs no physical suspension uprating.

 

[Kingham]

Thanks for that.

What are the negatives for doing it

Cost ?
Increased Insurance ?

Cost is either £150 or £315 depending on which company you use, but the uprate takes you in to PHGV taxation class, so year on year, that cost will be clawed back due to the lower road fund licence cost.

My insurer won't increase my premium as there is no physical modification being made.

 

[ymfb]

Cost is either £150 or £315 depending on which company you use, but the uprate takes you in to PHGV taxation class, so year on year, that cost will be clawed back due to the lower road fund licence cost.

My insurer won't increase my premium as there is no physical modification being made.

sounds like there is no real downside then.

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[Stroppy Bird]

sounds like there is no real downside then.

I think that the only possible downside (and if you only ever pootle along it won't be a downside) is speed limits abroad if you are plated over 3500.

In the UK it won't make any difference as the speed limits are determined by your unladen weight (which won't change) but head over to France etc and I believe they are based on your plated weight (though I stand to be corrected if anyone knows better).

I do also remember seeing quite a lot of 3.5t weight limit signs in some of the villages in France we visited so technically this would also affect you.

Have to admit that weighing it all up (see what I did there ) we have decided that our next PVC will be on the maxi chassis and we'll get it uprated.

 

[ymfb]

i assumed, possibly naively that the weights were all ULW across the EU. I know the UK has at times slavishly followed EU rules when others esp France and Belgium have ignored them.

 

[Speve]

sounds like there is no real downside then.

Only when you reach age of 70 and need to renew license as you have to make sure you keep your entitlement can involve medical etc

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[BMM]

I put mine on the weighbridge for the first time this week
No LPG Water or personal possessions = 7360KG (half tank of petrol)
I weigh 108 KG so that gives me a payload of 32KG !

 

[Speve]

You had better go on a diet

 

[BMM]

You had better go on a diet

I suspect I'll have a few fines to pay

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