parking ticket for parking in Ripon coach car park (1 Viewer)

[PeteH]

I suspect on that we will have to agree to disagree.

As Said?

Pete

 

[ebikejohn]

Lots of interesting views here, lots of common sense but as usual the post began because of a lack of common sense, yes there are rules and on a busy day stopping motorhomes parking in dedicated bus & coach spaces would make sense but on a quiet day turning a blind eye would make sense.

Perhaps I am a bit quaint but a note on the windscreen warning you not to do it again would be pretty effective and it wouldn't have led to me reading this thread and ensuring that I will never visit Ripon in the van.

Common sense has very little to do with it, brandishing a ticket and demanding a fine is much more rewarding, I don't entirely blame the wardens, we live in a country where money has become the Holy Grail and where Government and Local Authorities spend all of their time telling you what you CANNOT do, very little effort goes into enabling you to do what you want to do (go shopping in Ripon in this instance).

Went shopping in Straford upon Avon in October, spent just under £600 there, got knocked to the ground by a cyclist on the pavement outside the Police Station, arrived back (disheveled and bleeding, broken shopping bags etc etc) at the Pay & Display 6 minutes late, yes I had a ticket, I used to visit Stratford 4 or 5 times a year, have I been back, will I? Did the fine match the crime? Would there be any point in claiming extenuating circumstances? Have I got time to b****r about appealing to people I would never normally give the time of day to? Was there a copper outside the Police Station?
The answer to all of the above is NO.
Was there a Parking Attendant hovering next to my Mini, of course there was.

 

[sdc77]

Lots of interesting views here, lots of common sense but as usual the post began because of a lack of common sense, yes there are rules and on a busy day stopping motorhomes parking in dedicated bus & coach spaces would make sense but on a quiet day turning a blind eye would make sense.

Perhaps I am a bit quaint but a note on the windscreen warning you not to do it again would be pretty effective and it wouldn't have led to me reading this thread and ensuring that I will never visit Ripon in the van.

Common sense has very little to do with it, brandishing a ticket and demanding a fine is much more rewarding, I don't entirely blame the wardens, we live in a country where money has become the Holy Grail and where Government and Local Authorities spend all of their time telling you what you CANNOT do, very little effort goes into enabling you to do what you want to do (go shopping in Ripon in this instance).

Went shopping in Straford upon Avon in October, spent just under £600 there, got knocked to the ground by a cyclist on the pavement outside the Police Station, arrived back (disheveled and bleeding, broken shopping bags etc etc) at the Pay & Display 6 minutes late, yes I had a ticket, I used to visit Stratford 4 or 5 times a year, have I been back, will I? Did the fine match the crime? Would there be any point in claiming extenuating circumstances? Have I got time to b****r about appealing to people I would never normally give the time of day to? Was there a copper outside the Police Station?
The answer to all of the above is NO.
Was there a Parking Attendant hovering next to my Mini, of course there was.

Nice post and I agree with all your sentiments entirely.
I'm not sure a warning note on people's cars would work though to be honest.
Certainly not in any larger town or city anyway.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

Lots of interesting views here, lots of common sense but as usual the post began because of a lack of common sense, yes there are rules and on a busy day stopping motorhomes parking in dedicated bus & coach spaces would make sense but on a quiet day turning a blind eye would make sense.

Perhaps I am a bit quaint but a note on the windscreen warning you not to do it again would be pretty effective and it wouldn't have led to me reading this thread and ensuring that I will never visit Ripon in the van.

Common sense has very little to do with it, brandishing a ticket and demanding a fine is much more rewarding, I don't entirely blame the wardens, we live in a country where money has become the Holy Grail and where Government and Local Authorities spend all of their time telling you what you CANNOT do, very little effort goes into enabling you to do what you want to do (go shopping in Ripon in this instance).

Went shopping in Straford upon Avon in October, spent just under £600 there, got knocked to the ground by a cyclist on the pavement outside the Police Station, arrived back (disheveled and bleeding, broken shopping bags etc etc) at the Pay & Display 6 minutes late, yes I had a ticket, I used to visit Stratford 4 or 5 times a year, have I been back, will I? Did the fine match the crime? Would there be any point in claiming extenuating circumstances? Have I got time to b****r about appealing to people I would never normally give the time of day to? Was there a copper outside the Police Station?
The answer to all of the above is NO.
Was there a Parking Attendant hovering next to my Mini, of course there was.

What is a "quiet day" though? At any given time a car/coach park may be empty but a few minutes later it could be full to bursting. That is the nature of traffic flows in this country. Councils have to balance the needs of all and, in most cases (including Harrogate) don't do a bad job. That is demonstrated by the increase if availability of parking for motorhomes in recent years, which has come about as a result of positive lobbying.

Notes on the windscreen simply don't work I'm afraid. The reason we have parking controls is that, left to their own devices, too many people park indiscriminately without regard for others. Some even do so even with parking enforcement. I can recall a problem of people parking in disabled spaces without a blue badge in a local town a few years ago. After trying warnings the council stationed an enforcement officer alongside the bays to issue tickets. Some people still parked without a badge right in front of him and wondered why they got a ticket.

As regards your Stratford incident, I should have appealed and explained the circumstances to the council. I've always found them reasonable when communicating with them.

 

[gus-lopez]

I pay to park a vehicle, not rent a 'space'.

 

[Lenny HB]

It's threads like this that make me think how lucky we are to live only 20 miles from a channel port.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[chaser]

It's threads like this that make me think how lucky we are to live only 20 miles from a channel port.

Why is it that parking in France is no big deal as it is here, wherever we've been you can always find somewhere to park , mostly free , no ripoff fines, and always plenty spaces, why is it so different here

 

[ebikejohn]

What is a "quiet day" though? At any given time a car/coach park may be empty but a few minutes later it could be full to bursting. That is the nature of traffic flows in this country. Councils have to balance the needs of all and, in most cases (including Harrogate) don't do a bad job. That is demonstrated by the increase if availability of parking for motorhomes in recent years, which has come about as a result of positive lobbying.

Notes on the windscreen simply don't work I'm afraid. The reason we have parking controls is that, left to their own devices, too many people park indiscriminately without regard for others. Some even do so even with parking enforcement. I can recall a problem of people parking in disabled spaces without a blue badge in a local town a few years ago. After trying warnings the council stationed an enforcement officer alongside the bays to issue tickets. Some people still parked without a badge right in front of him and wondered why they got a ticket.

As regards your Stratford incident, I should have appealed and explained the circumstances to the council. I've always found them reasonable when communicating with them.

I think it's pretty clear that the bus park wasn't busy, I also think that a preprinted warning note left on the windscreen of the OPs Motorhome would have worked on this occasion and I believe it would work on most occasions, most people are pretty decent, the fact that a ticket had been purchased and displayed on this occasion was pretty good evidence that this was not a case of inconsiderate parking or a flagrant disregard of the rules.

You think a ticket was in order but I believe that there was no need to issue a ticket and that we live in a country where taxes and fines are the first port of call, when Jamie Oliver wants to stop our kids getting too fat he proposes a 'sugar tax', in Worcester they are debating fining shops and businesses for putting their rubbish bins outside of their premises whilst waiting for the bin lorry to come along.

There was a time when traffic wardens in the town where I come from (Ross on Wye) went out of their way to keep the traffic moving, they directed traffic, occasionally went on point duty and I remember getting back to my van one day and getting told I would get a ticket next time I overstayed my visit, we actually liked and respected them because they kept the traffic moving, these days I would be surprised if any of the wardens knew any of the names of the outlying villages leave alone how to get to them.

When a parking warden sees a problem that they cannot issue a ticket for they keep walking because they are only equipped to fine us and not to actually assist us and there lies my issue with government bodies and local authorities.

Yes I could have written a letter asking for forgiveness and pleading extenuating circumstances etc etc but all I wanted to do was draw a line under the whole sorry tale, this is a town where a yob felt able to ride a bike at speed on the pavement outside the Police Station, even if there had been a policeman there to deal with him I very much doubt he would have faced a fine anyway, a six minute overstay though - whack.

 

[GJH]

Why is it that parking in France is no big deal as it is here, wherever we've been you can always find somewhere to park , mostly free , no ripoff fines, and always plenty spaces, why is it so different here

Perhaps because this country is so much small and the inhabited parts are so much more congested?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I think it's pretty clear that the bus park wasn't busy, I also think that a preprinted warning note left on the windscreen of the OPs Motorhome would have worked on this occasion and I believe it would work on most occasions, most people are pretty decent, the fact that a ticket had been purchased and displayed on this occasion was pretty good evidence that this was not a case of inconsiderate parking or a flagrant disregard of the rules.

The biggest point against leaving a warning note is that they would have to implement some sort of system to record who has had a warning and who hasn't because if not there would be plenty of people who will happily ignore the rules confident that they will only ever get a warning.

 

[ebikejohn]

The biggest point against leaving a warning note is that they would have to implement some sort of system to record who has had a warning and who hasn't because if not there would be plenty of people who will happily ignore the rules confident that they will only ever get a warning.

I don't think that is such a big deal given the amount of data they collect anyway, just choose a different option when printing a warning ticket rather than a parking ticket, that gets logged just a parking ticket does, cannot be beyond the wit of man - we both know it will never happen though - no money in it.

 

[GJH]

I think it's pretty clear that the bus park wasn't busy, I also think that a preprinted warning note left on the windscreen of the OPs Motorhome would have worked on this occasion and I believe it would work on most occasions, most people are pretty decent, the fact that a ticket had been purchased and displayed on this occasion was pretty good evidence that this was not a case of inconsiderate parking or a flagrant disregard of the rules.

You think a ticket was in order but I believe that there was no need to issue a ticket and that we live in a country where taxes and fines are the first port of call, when Jamie Oliver wants to stop our kids getting too fat he proposes a 'sugar tax', in Worcester they are debating fining shops and businesses for putting their rubbish bins outside of their premises whilst waiting for the bin lorry to come along.

There was a time when traffic wardens in the town where I come from (Ross on Wye) went out of their way to keep the traffic moving, they directed traffic, occasionally went on point duty and I remember getting back to my van one day and getting told I would get a ticket next time I overstayed my visit, we actually liked and respected them because they kept the traffic moving, these days I would be surprised if any of the wardens knew any of the names of the outlying villages leave alone how to get to them.

When a parking warden sees a problem that they cannot issue a ticket for they keep walking because they are only equipped to fine us and not to actually assist us and there lies my issue with government bodies and local authorities.

Yes I could have written a letter asking for forgiveness and pleading extenuating circumstances etc etc but all I wanted to do was draw a line under the whole sorry tale, this is a town where a yob felt able to ride a bike at speed on the pavement outside the Police Station, even if there had been a policeman there to deal with him I very much doubt he would have faced a fine anyway, a six minute overstay though - whack.

To add to Nick's answer about warnings.

The trouble is that too many people are not pretty decent. If they were then they would park considerately (they wouldn't use disabled spaces without blue badges for instance) and we wouldn't need parking controls.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[peterc10]

It's threads like this that make me think how lucky we are to live only 20 miles from a channel port.

Just how I feel too Lenny. Looking forward to my trip starting tomorrow through 5 countries and know I will have no problems finding a place to stop in any of them.

Perhaps because this country is so much small and the inhabited parts are so much more congested?

No smaller and congested than the Netherlands, but they manage to be motorhome friendly.

 

[sweetie]

Netherlands population is less than seventeen million compared to just under sixty five million for Great Britain.

 

[chaser]

Perhaps because this country is so much small and the inhabited parts are so much more congested?

Nothing to do with it , here they make sure they give you a ticket, they want to give you one, that's what pays the wages, in France even though they are bigger they could go out of their way to make it hard to park , as here, to give you a ticket but it's just not on the agenda, live and let live.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[peterc10]

Netherlands population is less than seventeen million compared to just under sixty five million for Great Britain.

In fact the Netherlands is almost twice as densely populated as the UK. The 2014 figures show it has 501 people per square kilometre, whereas the UK has 267.

 

[peterc10]

Nothing to do with it , here they make sure they give you a ticket, they want to give you one, that's what pays the wages, in France even though they are bigger they could go out of their way to make it hard to park , as here, to give you a ticket but it's just not on the agenda, live and let live.

And in addition they realise that attracting visitors in motorhomes is good for the local economy.

 

[chaser]

In uttoxeter the parking is free after 3oclock, are wardens still about , I don't know, could you park all night without anyone noticing, something I just thought of as it won't crop up for me , being here, but before three they can do you for straggling a line or too big or whatever, but what happens after 3, il have to investigate

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Puddleduck]

Sorry you got a ticket. It can be difficult to know what to do for the best in a strange place. I have phoned councils in the past for advice and generally found them helpful. Some more than others I do admit! A couple of times we have even had height barriers raised for us which was far more than we asked for or expected. (Ironbridge and a privately owned carpark elsewhere, can't remember where though).

I love Ripon but agree the city centre parking is a nightmare - for cars as well as larger vehicles. When we were last there we did manage to get a tucked away space but filled the space and had one wheel just over the edge of the bay and into a hatched area. Luckily the warden was there and I was able to ask him if we were okay or should we leave, he said we were okay as we were in a corner space and not causing an obstruction. He did warn us never to use the coach park though as we would get a ticket At the time we parked the coach park was empty but (as Graham @GJH said) when we got back the coach park was busy and folk were milling around in there as a bus trip had just arrived.

We did find that there was some on street parking around Bondgate Green (near where the canal ends) and it isn't too far to walk in to the centre from there. In future we would probably try to park there, especially as the new van will be a bit longer than Buffy so very difficult to park in Ripon Centre carparks.

 

[GJH]

Nothing to do with it , here they make sure they give you a ticket, they want to give you one, that's what pays the wages

Another urban myth with no foundation in fact.

And in addition they realise that attracting visitors in motorhomes is good for the local economy.

As opposed to the UK when all but a handful of people can't be bothered to actually show councils that there is such a case, even where it might exist.

 

[chaser]

Another urban myth with no foundation in fact.

As opposed to the UK when all but a handful of people can't be bothered to actually show councils that there is such a case, even where it might exist.

Make sure you watch the inspectors program on the tv, you might change your mind.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

Make sure you watch the inspectors program on the tv, you might change your mind.

I make a point of never watching any such programmes which skew facts to be sensationalist. I have plenty of experience of working with council parking sections.

In uttoxeter the parking is free after 3oclock, are wardens still about , I don't know, could you park all night without anyone noticing, something I just thought of as it won't crop up for me , being here, but before three they can do you for straggling a line or too big or whatever, but what happens after 3, il have to investigate

Good idea. Why not make the case to East Staffordshire Council for aire facilities?

And in addition they realise that attracting visitors in motorhomes is good for the local economy.

And, as above, why not make a case to Tunbridge Wells council for an aire?

 

[peterc10]

Another urban myth with no foundation in fact.

As opposed to the UK when all but a handful of people can't be bothered to actually show councils that there is such a case, even where it might exist.

Graham, and that IMHO is at the root of the problem. On the other side of the channel councils (often run by a single mayor in the case of France) are much more willing to be innovative in attracting people to their area. They do not need a 25 page "position paper" written by their officers, full of justification, to tell them that there are a lot of motorhomes about and that attracting them to their village or town is probably a good way of making the local businesses more sustainable.

And if Canterbury can do it, why can't others. I wonder how they came to the conclusion that it would be a good idea, but it is. Last time I stayed for one night I spent £50 or so in those businesses. And they must be happy with it because they are planning to provide other similar facilities in the area as well.

As I say I am lucky I can get to the tunnel in an hour or so. And I now have another 8 tickets to use up in the next year.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Graham, and that IMHO is at the root of the problem. On the other side of the channel councils (often run by a single mayor in the case of France) are much more willing to be innovative in attracting people to their area. They do not need a 25 page "position paper" written by their officers, full of justification, to tell them that there are a lot of motorhomes about and that attracting them to their village or town is probably a good way of making the local businesses more sustainable.

And if Canterbury can do it, why can't others. I wonder how they came to the conclusion that it would be a good idea, but it is. Last time I stayed for one night I spent £50 or so in those businesses. And they must be happy with it because they are planning to provide other similar facilities in the area as well.

As I say I am lucky I can get to the tunnel in an hour or so. And I now have another 8 tickets to use up in the next year.

A couple of points:

On the other side of the channel there are far more motorhomes, from far more countries than there are here. There is also a far bigger motorhome/camping car culture there than there is here. Like it or not, we're a pretty insignificant minority in this country.

Canterbury has the USP of being enroute to two major channel crossings. Very few, if any, other places can claim anything similar. It also had a ready made facility already in place at the P&R so the investment needed was minimal.

It really is unreasonable to expect a local authority to spend it's council tax payers money on the off chance that people might turn up and might spend money.

For everyone on here that says they would spend money there is someone else that proudly states they go shopping in their local Lidl before they leave home, wouldn't pay to park overnight and won't spend any money in the place they visit.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[GJH]

Graham, and that IMHO is at the root of the problem. On the other side of the channel councils (often run by a single mayor in the case of France) are much more willing to be innovative in attracting people to their area. They do not need a 25 page "position paper" written by their officers, full of justification, to tell them that there are a lot of motorhomes about and that attracting them to their village or town is probably a good way of making the local businesses more sustainable.

If only it were that simple, Peter, but it isn't. @John & Joan explained the background Here a month ago.

And if Canterbury can do it, why can't others. I wonder how they came to the conclusion that it would be a good idea, but it is. Last time I stayed for one night I spent £50 or so in those businesses. And they must be happy with it because they are planning to provide other similar facilities in the area as well.

Canterbury has the USP of being on the transit route to and from Dover and had the opportunity to include the aire at the P&R (we spent rather more than 50 quid when we stayed there but we did stay 2 nights ) but that factor simply doesn't apply to other places. They would never have thought about making places available at Herne Bay & Whitstable if they were in the same position as other councils.

In somewhere like Tunbridge Wells the first problem would be finding a site. Unless we make the case ourselves it won't happen.

EDIT - Nick posted whilst I was composing

 

[peterc10]

I am frantically getting ready for my next trip to the land of motorhome friendly councils, i.e. Europe , so we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[GJH]

I am frantically getting ready for my next trip to the land of motorhome friendly councils, i.e. Europe , so we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Whether agreeing or disagreeing, there is nothing to stop anyone making a case to a council

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[chaser]

We are getting into the Aires thing again now, which we all know ain't going to happen, the op was about straightforward parking, different thing altogether.

 

[GJH]

We are getting into the Aires thing again now, which we all know ain't going to happen, the op was about straightforward parking, different thing altogether.

It wasn't me who introduced a comparison with France

 

[chaser]

It wasn't me who introduced a comparison with France

I was talking about parking not aires

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}