OH, SH*T, WHAT HAVE I DONE. (1 Viewer)

GWAYGWAY

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Sep 6, 2014
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I have just taken delivery of my new Hymer ML-I it is a 580 with an Automatic gearbox and a few extras.
In order to find out what I have as a payload i have gone to TWO weighbridges.
The van is loaded as I would use it less water and waste water it has full fuel 87kgs me and wifey at 68kgs each a few bits of food in cans at 16kgs no clothes but a spare wheel in the back and some tools. and two gasit cylinders full in the back. NO solar or awnings.
I bought the van as it was a 3500kg model that I can drive when my C1E licence is revoked soon, as my Chausson was too heavy at 3860 kg.
The new van weighs 3580 at one bridge and 3880 at the other but a combined front and rear weight of 4140 using two axle weights together, this not only make me illegal at gross but the axle weights are over the limits at 1940 front and 2200 at the rear front limit is 1940kg and the rear at 2200kg.
I bought this van as it was the lightweight under 3500kg model and it carries an uprate to 3880kgs.
There is no reason it should come out at these weights other than a bit of light rain. The rated accuracy according to the official figure for a weighbridge is 0.01% new and 0.02 in service. both of them give different figures but both would make me illegal if I put a bit of water in and certainly if I put the little bike in the garage by a few hundred kilos.
WTF is going on with these vans are they a lot heavier than the makers declare or is the weighing to blame????
What do I do with it, it is workable for now with reduced fuel tankage and no water and nothing in the garage at all, the new spare being left behind and no passengers although it is a four seater four berth van.
I am going to sit down now and using the Hymer declared weight for the basic vehicle and all the options see what they say it should be compared to the actual weighings obtained. I have a feeling I have just blown £75000.
 
Jan 31, 2016
1,117
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A Class Rapido 9097F
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I am not best placed to advise I am sure someone will come along who is however imho the van is not fit for purpose at 3500kg as sold. So I would return it for a full refund.
I cannot see how they could refuse.
 

Bailey58

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Jun 23, 2010
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There have been several threads on payloads and margins lately. It's sometimes suggested we insist on taking the van to a weighbridge before we commit ourselves but I've yet to hear of anyone who has done it, or a dealer who would let you. I feel for you.

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Puddleduck

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Jan 15, 2014
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I think you need to contact the dealer asap - the van is not what was sold to you.

I can't comment on the weighbridge differences but there is something very wrong.
 

Chris

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Impressed you are only 68kg.

I was more than that when I was 15 and now I am considerably more as I am still growing.

Hope you get some sensible replies and solutions(y)
 

Puddleduck

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There have been several threads on payloads and margins lately. It's sometimes suggested we insist on taking the van to a weighbridge before we commit ourselves but I've yet to hear of anyone who has done it, or a dealer who would let you. I feel for you.

I did this on a second hand van we were thinking of buying. It turned out there was no payload (it was overweight empty) and there was no cheap way to upgrade.

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GWAYGWAY

GWAYGWAY

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Sep 6, 2014
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I was plated at 3880kg when I bought it so they are right there. It is what Hymer say it should be and not what the weighbridges say.
I need to find a proper weighbridge and not one plastered in mud and dirt that is certified recently but they are a bit scarce around here.
The problem arises in two years time, when the licence flies away, as I do no qualify for the C1E as I will not pass the medical threadmill test. I will have to thrash the bum off it riding around Europe whilst I can, low fuel it, no wifey, no bike, no water, no spare wheel, and no tins of food, wear the same clothes all the time. That should fit the bill as I will be fed up on my 70th. I can uprate it to 4000 or even 4200kgs theoretically but a bit of a fuss to do it. That will be my first way of attacking the problem.
 

Lenny HB

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Oct 18, 2007
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What are the weights on the C of C?
The techinal MIRO will show the ex works weight including factory fitted extras and the usual inclusion of 75kg for driver, 20lt of water, 90% fuel and one 11kg aluminium gas bottle.
Must admin a bit surprised that you would be able to run an ML at 3500, I ended up upgrading my Exsis to 3850 and that came out of the factory under weight.
 
D

Deleted member 29692

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Either way it isn't good but as has been mentioned one or both of those weigh bridges has to be wrong.

When we bought our Rapido the dealer did say right from the start that it wouldn't work at 3500 and therefore was plated higher.

I take it there was never a conversation like that with your dealer?

Obviously you need a weigh bridge ticket you can trust but armed with that I'd be interested in what the dealer has to say for themselves.

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Feb 16, 2013
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Something drastically wrong with the weigh bridges, 300 kilo difference, that's 6 cwt in old money , if they are at scrap yards , I know where I'd be taking my old iron(y):)
 

Tootles

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I thought, (unsure), that the road weight (unloaded) was taken with a tank of fuel, the driver, and spare wheel etc. This sounds like a right cock up by the dealer. Find a local authority weighbridge, they are checked on a regular basis.

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D

Deleted member 29692

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I thought, (unsure), that the road weight (unloaded) was taken with a tank of fuel, the driver, and spare wheel etc. This sounds like a right cock up by the dealer. Find a local authority weighbridge, they are checked on a regular basis.

There isn't a standard, all the converters have a different way of calculating it - some use full fuel and water, some use half and half or full and half and so on.

Definitely a major cock up by the dealer though if either of those weights are anywhere near accurate.
 

Jaws

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@GWAYGWAY, I have read your post a couple of times and am still unsure..
You say :

I bought this van as it was the lightweight under 3500kg model and it carries an uprate to 3880kgs.

This uprate you mention.. Is it plated at 3880 already or is it something that you could pick up as a possible at some other time ?

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Aug 18, 2014
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I'd have expected 2 identical weighbridge tickets.
There's definitely something wrong with one of the weighbridges & I'd use the link @Puddleduck gave to find out what.
I always use a public weighbridge here & then check with my builders one. They are both rated at 70,000kgs & always come out with identical weights.
Even at 0,01% accuracy new that can be a discrepancy of 700kgs & at 0,02% in use is 1400kgs.

*dynamic bridge allowance is +/- 150kgs.
 

Steve N Tracy

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I have just had our motor home weighed and the sum of the 2 axles is exactly the same as the gross weight, I reckon it depends on the skill of the operator as to where they tell you to stop when weighing the individual axles.

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pappajohn

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@GWAYGWAY, I have read your post a couple of times and am still unsure..
You say :



This uprate you mention.. Is it plated at 3880 already or is it something that you could pick up as a possible at some other time ?
I would assume it's a 3880kg van downrated to 3500kg for B licence holders.
Not taking into account the usable weight, just to appeal to a wider market.
 

Autowbars

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The operator at the bridge can set it to zero, when not loaded, no matter what crap, water is on it.
This can not be done on old manual types, just electronic.

If he,she wants to!
 

Tootles

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I think about it like this........Poodling down the motorway........Mr plod pulls in front, with a flashing 'FOLLOW ME' sign. Onto weighbridge. "Sorry sir, your motorhome is grossly overweight. You cant proceed until you unload something really heavy........."
Sorted. The wife gets a two week break at Keel Services.........(y)(y)

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GWAYGWAY

GWAYGWAY

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Sep 6, 2014
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@GWAYGWAY, I have read your post a couple of times and am still unsure..
You say :



This uprate you mention.. Is it plated at 3880 already or is it something that you could pick up as a possible at some other time ?
Yes it is a 3500kgs model but it was uplated to 3880kgs so it is legal at the moment for me to drive, i can take two more people as well but the weight drop back to 3500 stop the payload where it is now when weighed. The first weighbridge figure are complete boll**cks as they cannot add up either, there was no read out and the bridge itself was covered in a layer of mud at least 1/2 inch thick and it wad 50' long 10' wide so there is a fair bit of slime on there in weight. also as they weighed me at the very extreme end at both times the figures were not right. MOTTO is do not go to a shit hole to get weighed after a load of muddy tippers have dribbled their way over it.leaving lumps of load behind. The second one was uncertified but reasonably accurate so no ticket from them only a bit of paper written on with the figures. I have sat down and used ALL the figure that Hymer give for that model and ALL the extras even the 1 kg ones and it works out at 3550kg which is liveable as I would not be taking anyone anyway. The extra on the actual weighing was the extra fuel for the bigger tank my toolbox and starter cables, straps etc living in the boot so I can still drive it at 70 with a little less fuel and no extras. At the moment I am fine with the 3880kgs. However I am going to do it again with a certified weighbridge and get a proper ticket. The other weighbridge gave a max total of 4140kgs when axle were added but 3880kg when the measured it at the centre as a total including all the surface muck and rain. I will do a Tootles, bit I think. Where did Lenny, get the proposal to up the limit for driving to 75 as that would cure all of it for me as I will not get there anyway???? I am going to find another certified weighbridge in the morning tomrrow... PS did you know a jack weigh 7 kg and a tool box 25kg starter cable 4kgs. that accounts for a load of difference, it might be worth looking at you own garage to see all the used un-needed stuff in there.Options list weigh a lot of weight as well as money, the auto box is a good 48kgs and aircon 30kgs just for two items on the list.
How many of you have ACTUALLY put the van over a bridge, I only wanted to correct tyre pressure figure.
 

Jim

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Jul 19, 2007
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There isn't a standard, all the converters have a different way of calculating it -

NOT TRUE There is a standard,
European standard BS EN 1646 – part 2

Almost all makers pay lip-service to it. However, since late last year it got stupid and the NCC have agreed that makers may exclude the 90% full water tank, meaning they are allowed to quote payload with an empty water tank. Previously a 90% tank of water was one of the items (like a 75kg driver and a 4kg hook up lead and essential habitation equipment per passenger) that makers had to add before giving the payload. This means that some payloads this year look much better than they did last year.
 

Puddleduck

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Weigh ours fully loaded at the start of each "season" - and sometimes in between times.

Originally it was to get the correct tyre pressures but it's also an informative exercise.

When we get the new van one of the first trips will be to a weighbridge, probably after the refillable LPG tank has been fitted.

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Billy23

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Feb 10, 2012
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I might be missing something here but I will ask the question. Why are you going to lose the licence to drive above 3.5? Is it an age thing (70) if so, what's with the treadmill? Medical is straight forward, mine takes about 10 minutes.

I understand you may not want to say on here, if so I am sorry for asking and please ignore the post. I am WELL over the 3.5 thingy and it ain't stopping me:)
 
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GWAYGWAY

GWAYGWAY

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Sep 6, 2014
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Not sure if this helps with the weighbridge - possibly the two you have used.

http://www.dover.gov.uk/A-Z/Weighbridges.aspx

Also with such a difference in weights (did you get a ticket from each?) it might be worth talking to trading standards as one or both the weighbridges are wrong.
It was the Ovenden soil recycling one I went to first I did not get printouts from them as it was not working properly they said. The Zen one Would be an almost certain puncture as the scrap is all over the place, the Quarry was bad but the sharp items are something else, The same applies to Parkers at Canterbury, loads of swarf and metal bits all over the ground, OK for thick truck tyres but mine are a lot thinner.
 
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GWAYGWAY

GWAYGWAY

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Sep 6, 2014
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I might be missing something here but I will ask the question. Why are you going to lose the licence to drive above 3.5? Is it an age thing (70) if so, what's with the treadmill? Medical is straight forward, mine takes about 10 minutes.

I understand you may not want to say on here, if so I am sorry for asking and please ignore the post. I am WELL over the 3.5 thingy and it ain't stopping me:)
I lost my commercial pilots licence 25 years ago and my GP is a CAA doctor and has it all on file and said no way will he pass me to drive over 70 . It is all on record and I do not want to take the ECG now and fail it, just in case, although I am fit it is the paperwork that counts.

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