Not Good In Calais Last Saturday - Migrants Ggrrrrrr!! (2 Viewers)

[Judge Mental]

Gosh you would hardly credit that we have what is universally acknowledged as the greatest humanitarian disaster since WW2 unfolding on the doorstep of Europe.

Take Syria, 10 million men women and children have been bombed or driven out of their homes. That does not include the quarter of a million that didn’t move and where slaughtered. 4 million are now out of the country. The majority in the living hell of huge shanty refugee camps with no work or possessions and with minimal hope of return. All that has happened in 3 years. They make up the majority of the 200,000 that washed up in Italy and Greece last year. All that in a country that the UN considered a “middle income” state in 2011.

Then there is Lybia no civil war there! A totally failed state! No police, Law, no work, no hope and summary execution at the will of which ever faction controls your town today. A bit further and there is Somalia in similar situation and the stories coming out of the largely closed Eritrea are telling of a state along the lines of Pol Pot’s Cambodia without the genocide yet. The list goes on.

The situation is very grave, ask anyone who knows the real story. Ask Farage who demanded 2 years ago that Cameron take in Syria refugees saying that it was the duty of all western countries to offer asylum to those fleeing for their lives. Rather shamefacedly he backtracked 36 hours later after hearing the views of his “people’s army”.

To those that say “they are nothing to do with us let them die, as long as they don’t come here I don’t care what happens to them” I have a respect for their honesty. But those that hide behind weasel words such as they only come for our benefits and it’s a positive choice, or they are all economic immigrants, or look at their clothes, or that they don’t observe the bureaucracy and jump queues when there is no bloody queue because we are letting none in I really wonder who are they trying to kid? Themselves?

I don’t have an answer, but I do know that burying our heads in the sand won’t help at all and I will look at those young men sheltering in wet blankets under polythene in Calais with as kind an eye as I can.

Dick

Its the total lack of empathy or understanding that I find saddening. I thought I had heard it all until someone mentioned the lads at Calais in designer gear where better dressed then his good self? I can give him the number of my tailor if he wants

meanwhile Isis camped 400 miles from italy..a situation that we are collectively responsible for..

 

[Langtoftlad]

One can empathise for an individual, it's human nature - but not for the problem or the issue.
They are economic migrants, who are trying to jump the queue & the situation they find themselves in is self inflicted.
Charity or handouts just exacerbates the problem.

No idea about "designer" clothes but they seem to be sorted with mobiles...

Calais ?

...no, Peterborough
Let our sympathy & charity begin at home.

 

[2657]

Funny old world........it seems it is OK for us rich motor homers to travel and park up wherever we feel but when some poor migrants do it!!!!!!!!

As for these people being economic migrants, what's wrong with that? USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand largely colonised by economic(or religious) migrants from these islands and Continental Europe and it is still going on. How many on this forum have relatives in these countries and many that have emigrated fairly recently, in my lifetime I have friends that obtained £10 assisted passages to Australia and I know of HGV drivers going to Canada for a supposed better life.

I am not advocating a complete open door policy, I do not have solutions to this problem, but you cannot blame people for wanting a better life for themselves and their family's.

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[chaser]

Its the total lack of empathy or understanding that I find saddening. I thought I had heard it all until someone mentioned the lads at Calais in designer gear where better dressed then his good self? I can give him the number of my tailor if he wants

meanwhile Isis camped 400 miles from italy..a situation that we are collectively responsible for..

Will you also supply me with a handout to pay your tailor

 

[chaser]

Funny old world........it seems it is OK for us rich motor homers to travel and park up wherever we feel but when some poor migrants do it!!!!!!!!

As for these people being economic migrants, what's wrong with that? USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand largely colonised by economic(or religious) migrants from these islands and Continental Europe and it is still going on. How many on this forum have relatives in these countries and many that have emigrated fairly recently, in my lifetime I have friends that obtained £10 assisted passages to Australia and I know of HGV drivers going to Canada for a supposed better life.

I am not advocating a complete open door policy, I do not have solutions to this problem, but you cannot blame people for wanting a better life for themselves and their family's.

When we go to park up somewhere, we are paying to be there not expecting a handout and not intending to stop there for good either

 

[gus-lopez]

I thought I had heard it all until someone mentioned the lads at Calais in designer gear where better dressed then his good self? I can give him the number of my tailor if he wants

meanwhile Isis camped 400 miles from italy..a situation that we are collectively responsible for..

No he means probably that like me, they can afford the stuff & we cannot. Additionally as Langtoft lad said if they can afford the mobiles/topping up then as far as I'm concerned they can help themselves.
We've got a bloke here at Mercadonas . takes your trolley back for the 50c/1€ . Lovely bloke , but doesn't get anything off me as I can't afford to eat McDonalds 6 days a week , like he does!

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[GJH]

Funny old world........it seems it is OK for us rich motor homers to travel and park up wherever we feel but when some poor migrants do it!!!!!!!!

As for these people being economic migrants, what's wrong with that? USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand largely colonised by economic(or religious) migrants from these islands and Continental Europe and it is still going on. How many on this forum have relatives in these countries and many that have emigrated fairly recently, in my lifetime I have friends that obtained £10 assisted passages to Australia and I know of HGV drivers going to Canada for a supposed better life.

I am not advocating a complete open door policy, I do not have solutions to this problem, but you cannot blame people for wanting a better life for themselves and their family's.

There is nothing wrong with economic migration per se, but it has to take place within the legislation in place for the time being. As pointed out in previous posts, where it goes wrong is where people flout the law.

 

[iandsm]

Funny old world........it seems it is OK for us rich motor homers to travel and park up wherever we feel but when some poor migrants do it!!!!!!!!

As for these people being economic migrants, what's wrong with that? USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand largely colonised by economic(or religious) migrants from these islands and Continental Europe and it is still going on. How many on this forum have relatives in these countries and many that have emigrated fairly recently, in my lifetime I have friends that obtained £10 assisted passages to Australia and I know of HGV drivers going to Canada for a supposed better life.

I am not advocating a complete open door policy, I do not have solutions to this problem, but you cannot blame people for wanting a better life for themselves and their family's.

Motorhomers travel legally. The people mentioned colonising or emigrating to other countries also did/do that legally. Or they do in modern times. Of course no one should be blamed for wanting a better life but To compare motorhomers and legal emigrants to the current problem is a nonsense, it's like comparing chalk with cheese. There is simply no comparison.

 

[2657]

So the difference is you have money and they don't? Would it be acceptable for one of them to pitch a tent for nothing at Cité Europe? If they are illegal in France why don't they deport them, whether legal or not they are human beings!

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[Paddywack]

Motorhomers travel legally. The people mentioned colonising or emigrating to other countries also did/do that legally. Or they do in modern times. ....There is simply no comparison.

Colonising (defn) "send settlers to (a place) and establish political control over it" and you suggest that in modern times that this is done legally? The colonisation of vast parts of the globe in recent years has been a political and economic process, normally done by bribing the ruling minority and exploiting the natural assets with no consideration to the local majority, this is what has made huge swathes of the world unsafe.

Are you suggesting that this behaviour is legal? Think Shell, BP BAE Systems, there is a reason why Blair stepped in and stopped the Serious Farce Office investigating BAE, it is that their actions were illegal but that it might embarrass the Saudi royals. Shell's action in the Niger Delta ....... etc etc. So so much for our own / governments "legal" actions, I don't think we really have the moral high ground to condemn those now fleeing from the misery we have spread.

 

[GJH]

So the difference is you have money and they don't?

No, the difference is acting legally against breaking the law.

Would it be acceptable for one of them to pitch a tent for nothing at Cité Europe? If they are illegal in France why don't they deport them, whether legal or not they are human beings!

It's up to the French government to decide whether to deport them but it is likely to come sooner or later.

 

[iandsm]

So the difference is you have money and they don't? Would it be acceptable for one of them to pitch a tent for nothing at Cité Europe? If they are illegal in France why don't they deport them, whether legal or not they are human beings!

The difference between motorhmers going about their lawful business and illegal migrants is much much more than just money. Parking a motorhome in city Europe for a night is a million miles away from putting up a tent intending to live on it permanently pending illegal entry into the UK.

I don't know why the French don't deport. They are entitled to since they are illegally in France not being EU nationals. Yes they all human beings and dire as their situation might be, are subject the rules of countries they are in or are attempting to get to. Presumably they want to get into countries where there are rules as they have just escaped from ones which don't.

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[iandsm]

Colonising (defn) "send settlers to (a place) and establish political control over it" and you suggest that in modern times that this is done legally? The colonisation of vast parts of the globe in recent years has been a political and economic process, normally done by bribing the ruling minority and exploiting the natural assets with no consideration to the local majority, this is what has made huge swathes of the world unsafe.

Are you suggesting that this behaviour is legal? Think Shell, BP BAE Systems, there is a reason why Blair stepped in and stopped the Serious Farce Office investigating BAE, it is that their actions were illegal but that it might embarrass the Saudi royals. Shell's action in the Niger Delta ....... etc etc. So so much for our own / governments "legal" actions, I don't think we really have the moral high ground to condemn those now fleeing from the misery we have spread.

I was talking about the same people Matamoros was. People going in recent times to the USA Australia, Canada. Legally. Nothing wrong with that or their actions. Unless you suggest what they did was somehow illegal. I do not condone economic exploitation at the expense of populations.

By the way I dont suggest, and I don't think anyone else has suggested, we have a moral high point upon which to pronounce. This has been a very interesting thread with some fairly entrenched opinions but no apparent solutions offered to the Calais issue or the whole refugee problem now faced as a result of breakdown of their societies. If we cannot suggest solutions, is there any hope governments will. Well, yes, I think governments will but probably too little too late and they will probably adopt ever more stringent measures to prevent migrants entering their countries. Even today French riot police have been ordered to refuse entry to would be migrants trying to enter France from Italy.

 

[scousebird]

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/deal/news/terrifying-lorry-break-in-scenes-captured-38604/

on today's Kent Messenger website.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

The only thing that we can do it try and make this country as unattractive as possible to them instead of the soft touch we are at the moment. One obvious thing is to say no immigrant to this country, whether legal or illegal, will get any kind of help or benefit from the state until they have been here for a minimum of 5 years. That's nothing at all, no food, no accommodation, no money, nothing, not ever, not for any reason. We also need to say that nobody who enters the country illegally can subsequently claim asylum and when they are caught they will be immediately deported straight back to their country of origin, safe or not, with no delay or appeal process.

Beyond that the problem needs to be addressed as close as possible to the source. In practice I suppose that means their point of entry to the EU but it seems that the Italian and the French solution seems to be to shepherd them along the way to the next border when they hopefully become someone elses problem. When the Italian navy fish them out of the Med they need to be taking straight back to Libya or Tunisia or wherever they started from and drop them off there.

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[Gin Palace]

We've paid a lot of hard earnt cash for our MH I wouldn't take the risk of any migrant trying to break in I wouldn't trust my other half for his actions either! they are desperate people and you don't know their backgrounds better to be safe than sorry.

The only thing that we can do it try and make this country as unattractive as possible to them instead of the soft touch we are at the moment. One obvious thing is to say no immigrant to this country, whether legal or illegal, will get any kind of help or benefit from the state until they have been here for a minimum of 5 years. That's nothing at all, no food, no accommodation, no money, nothing, not ever, not for any reason. We also need to say that nobody who enters the country illegally can subsequently claim asylum and when they are caught they will be immediately deported straight back to their country of origin, safe or not, with no delay or appeal process.

Beyond that the problem needs to be addressed as close as possible to the source. In practice I suppose that means their point of entry to the EU but it seems that the Italian and the French solution seems to be to shepherd them along the way to the next border when they hopefully become someone elses problem. When the Italian navy fish them out of the Med they need to be taking straight back to Libya or Tunisia or wherever they started from and drop them off there.

 

[sdc77]

I don't think anyone has demonstrated a lack of sympathy or empathy for the human misery happening in the Mediterranean. But there has been a lack of solutions. I do think sometimes that we love to flog ourselves and blame ourselves for some of these crisis. But whatever the view there is no way that we can be blamed for isis. Its not a revolt against the west or in response to Western intervention.. It originated in Syria, a country we didn't get involved in and is a revolt against civilisation.
I believe that the only way to deal with the current humanitarian crisis is to send them straight back or prevent them leaving. Provide aid if we can but we have to stop being seen as an easy option.

 

[iandsm]

Lots of opinion and debate on this thread but to return to the original theme here's an update.

I am sitting at the tunnel terminal, checked in and waiting four the call to our shuttle. We drove up the A16 from Gravelines direction and we have not seen any would be migrants, not a single one, or any evidence of them.

There have been some horrible stories in the UK paper, well Mail and Express if the qualify for that title enough to pu one off travelling. Perhaps the migrants efforts are directed to the ferry port today and I don't say they are not around just reporting our experience today. Others may have a different experience tomorrow, who knows

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[MattR]

I don't think anyone has demonstrated a lack of sympathy or empathy for the human misery happening in the Mediterranean. But there has been a lack of solutions. I do think sometimes that we love to flog ourselves and blame ourselves for some of these crisis. But whatever the view there is no way that we can be blamed for isis. Its not a revolt against the west or in response to Western intervention.. It originated in Syria, a country we didn't get involved in and is a revolt against civilisation.
I believe that the only way to deal with the current humanitarian crisis is to send them straight back or prevent them leaving. Provide aid if we can but we have to stop being seen as an easy option.

It appears that your solution is to keep these war refugees in Syria, in a failing state where people are executed for not following the barbaric rules of ISIS ......

 

[sdc77]

It appears that your solution is to keep these war refugees in Syria, in a failing state where people are executed for not following the barbaric rules of ISIS ......

Yep.. Spot on
Or we could take in the population of all failing states.. Not really feasible I'd say.

 

[GJH]

So let's just say we did allow all those migrants who are waiting in Calais to enter the UK - and the ones who would inevitably follow them as well.
We apparently have a housing crisis so where would they live?
We apparently have more than 1.8 million people unemployed so where would they find work.
We apparently have a situation where millions need the help of food banks so where would they obtain food from?
We have an economy which apparently cannot support our own population in other ways so how is it to support all the extra people with no jobs, no food and nowhere to live?

It is now three days since I asked these questions. Nobody has yet answered them. I wonder why?

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[MattR]

Yep.. Spot on
Or we could take in the population of all failing states.. Not really feasible I'd say.

If you would rather people be murdered than give them sanctuary in the Europe, I do not know what to say that would not get me banned from this forum.

 

[Glandwr]

Deja vu, the last time the world, as we know it, was in such economic and social conflict (1938). The Daily Mail was also speaking up! Of course in retrospect all right thinking people would now condemn it, or would they?

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[sdc77]

If you would rather people be murdered than give them sanctuary in the Europe, I do not know what to say that would not get me banned from this forum.

We'll have to agree to disagree then

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[iandsm]

It is now three days since I asked these questions. Nobody has yet answered them. I wonder why?

I would l love to hear some answers to.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

It is now three days since I asked these questions. Nobody has yet answered them. I wonder why?

I would l love to hear some answers to.

Me as well. Come on all you people that are in favour of uncontrolled immigration. You must have thought it through properly so let's have some answers! Or perhaps none of you have thought it through and you don't have the answers?

 

[Deleted member 29692]

If you would rather people be murdered than give them sanctuary in the Europe, I do not know what to say that would not get me banned from this forum.

Well if you want to give them all "sanctuary" how about you explain where they are going to live and who is going to support them? I assume from your post that your spare room and your bank account are available for them to have free use of?

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[GJH]

Deja vu, the last time the world, as we know it, was in such economic and social conflict (1938). The Daily Mail was also speaking up! Of course in retrospect all right thinking people would now condemn it, or would they?

Broken Link Removed

In 1938 people were crossing a single border (the North Sea) to flee to this country from Germany. None of the modern day refugees is doing so and we are already giving overseas aid to support them in their own countries or the bordering ones.
Also, as has already been pointed out, the people in Calais have deliberately travelled there with the aim of entering the UK, not simply to flee from a persecutor.

Instead of red herring posts such as the one quoted, why not give answers to the questions I asked 3 days ago?

 

[gus-lopez]

So the difference is you have money and they don't? Would it be acceptable for one of them to pitch a tent for nothing at Cité Europe? If they are illegal in France why don't they deport them, whether legal or not they are human beings!

The one & only reason that France do not round them up & deport them is the fact that it costs money. By doing nothing they hope the will gradually disappear over the water into the UK. The UK really needs to address the problem in France by either paying France to round them all up & deport them or asking for authority to use armed troops to round them up/ remove them.

 

[JJ]

Well if you want to give them all "sanctuary" how about you explain where they are going to live and who is going to support them? I assume from your post that your spare room and your bank account are available for them to have free use of?

Come on all you people who have thought it through and want to send all these people back where they come from.

How are they going to get there?

Who will decide where "there" is?

Who is going to pay for the transport?

How do you explain who is going to support them?

Where are they going to live?

We can all ask questions you know.


JJ

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