Not Good In Calais Last Saturday - Migrants Ggrrrrrr!! (1 Viewer)

[JJ]

I also wonder if they would ever be in a position to contribute to society, pay tax, work other than in the black economy, pay for their own accommodation and food etc etc. should they reach these shores. I expect they will simply take what benefits they can as soon as they qualify including health care and be a burden on our already overstretched resources. Whilst insisting on special treatment and allowances for various cultural traditions they have left behind

"EU migrants contribute £20bn to Britain
Helen Warrell in London
European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of £20bn, say researchers.

The research by academics at University College London comes at a time of fierce debate over freedom of movement within the EU."

Above article from that radical, lefty paper The Financial Times.

JJ

 

[gus-lopez]

I am sorry to say it but I believe the EU and the UK are powerless to stop this rising tide of humanity and I am also sorry to say, "you ain't seen nothing yet" As the numbers of these groups becomes larger, violence and intimidation will probably increase in proportion to their desperation and all at the expense to indigenous populations of many towns and cities. Calais is just the beginning.

It needs to be stopped in the Med.

"EU migrants contribute £20bn to Britain
Helen Warrell in London
European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of £20bn, say researchers.

The research by academics at University College London comes at a time of fierce debate over freedom of movement within the EU."

Above article from that radical, lefty paper The Financial Times.

JJ

That is EU migrants JJ , we are talking about the looky -looky men. at the gates of Calais.

 

[iandsm]

"EU migrants contribute £20bn to Britain
Helen Warrell in London
European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of £20bn, say researchers.

The research by academics at University College London comes at a time of fierce debate over freedom of movement within the EU."

Above article from that radical, lefty paper The Financial Times.

JJ

I doubt she was talking about the illegal ones in lorries or boats which is the problem we are talking about, and a totally different matter. There is nothing wrong with properly controlled LEGAL immigration which has much to offer us.

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[GJH]

"EU migrants contribute £20bn to Britain
Helen Warrell in London
European immigrants to the UK paid much more in taxes than they received in benefits over the past decade, making a net fiscal contribution of £20bn, say researchers.

The research by academics at University College London comes at a time of fierce debate over freedom of movement within the EU."

Above article from that radical, lefty paper The Financial Times.

JJ

Nobody disputes that there are plenty of people who come to the UK legally and make a positive contribution both economically and to UK society in general. Those people are to be welcomed. Even with legal EU migration, though, those contributions are diluted by those who come to take rather than make a positive difference.
The case of the illegal migrants is totally different as pointed out in previous posts.

 

[MattR]

I'm sure that many Funsters would do the same as these migrants if they were in a similar situation. If you came from a failed state or had very little chance of working in your home country and did not have a benefits system to support you, wouldn't you try and migrate to a new country where you could be safer and where you could work? Wouldn't you choose a country where you speak the main language? Wouldn't you try and go to a country where friends / relatives have settled?

 

[iandsm]

I'm sure that many Funsters would do the same as these migrants if they were in a similar situation. If you came from a failed state or had very little chance of working in your home country and did not have a benefits system to support you, wouldn't you try and migrate to a new country where you could be safer and where you could work? Wouldn't you choose a country where you speak the main language? Wouldn't you try and go to a country where friends / relatives have settled?

Who knows what we might do, but it doesn't make what they are doing right or legal. If things are that bad they should stay in the first country that offers safety as their friends and relatives should too. Not pick and choose.

None of the countries in the EU has the space, infrastructure, resources, finance to take on these huge numbers either tother or individually. But, there does not seem to be a viable solution on the horizon at the moment, sadly.

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[john kyte]

How much benefit can I claim in Nigeria

 

[Glandwr]

Well I think the Daily Mail should take their share of the blame for the human misery on display in Calais. If it wasn't for such, probably well intentioned, charitable gestures as this I'm sure we would not have them massing there

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/03/daily-mail-migrants-calais-campsite-france

Dick

 

[Langtoftlad]

Controversially - I have little or no sympathy for their plight.
It is self inflicted
They are economic migrants, not political asylum seekers.
They are trying to jump the queue.
There are proper procedures.
If they are happy to ignore these rules, would they be law abiding once they've snuck in.
You might tell me they must be desperate, I contend they are 'desperate' to get on the gravy train & easy street.

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[chaser]

Controversially - I have little or no sympathy for their plight.
It is self inflicted
They are economic migrants, not political asylum seekers.
They are trying to jump the queue.
There are proper procedures.
If they are happy to ignore these rules, would they be law abiding once they've snuck in.
You might tell me they must be desperate, I contend they are 'desperate' to get on the gravy train & easy street.

As I said way back in this thread, they are not desperate, they are better dressed than me , designer clothing and stuff, if they were desperate they would be in rags.

 

[MattR]

As I said way back in this thread, they are not desperate, they are better dressed than me , designer clothing and stuff, if they were desperate they would be in rags.

Have you been you been to an African market? The "designer" clothes are often cheaper than the non-designer ones.

 

[MattR]

Controversially - I have little or no sympathy for their plight.
It is self inflicted
They are economic migrants, not political asylum seekers.
They are trying to jump the queue.
There are proper procedures.
If they are happy to ignore these rules, would they be law abiding once they've snuck in.
You might tell me they must be desperate, I contend they are 'desperate' to get on the gravy train & easy street.

Self-inflicted? Does that include those escaping from the Syrian civil war, ISIS or Somali warlords etc?

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[GJH]

Self-inflicted? Does that include those escaping from the Syrian civil war, ISIS or Somali warlords etc?

It is not self-inflicted if they cross into an adjacent country to escape such dangers. It does, however, become self-inflicted when they then decide to break the law in an attempt to gain entry to their country of choice rather than one of safety.

 

[MattR]

It is not self-inflicted if they cross into an adjacent country to escape such dangers. It does, however, become self-inflicted when they then decide to break the law in an attempt to gain entry to their country of choice rather than one of safety.

If you had travelled the distances they have and ducked and dived to survive, little obstacles like border checks wouldn't stop you.

 

[GJH]

If you had travelled the distances they have and ducked and dived to survive, little obstacles like border checks wouldn't stop you.

But they have only travelled those distances, as opposed to crossing the nearest border to gain safety, because they have decided that they will break the law to get what they want.

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[MattR]

But they have only travelled those distances, as opposed to crossing the nearest border to gain safety, because they have decided that they will break the law to get what they want.

As mentioned above, many will speak English and will head to the nearest English speaking country where they have the best chance of working. I would expect many of us would do the same. I am sure that there would also be loads of migrants who stay in the first "safe country" that they come to. I wonder how long you would stay in one of the migrant camps.

 

[GJH]

As mentioned above, many will speak English and will head to the nearest English speaking country where they have the best chance of working. I would expect many of us would do the same. I am sure that there would also be loads of migrants who stay in the first "safe country" that they come to. I wonder how long you would stay in one of the migrant camps.

Again, only because they want to, not because they need to. If they really have a case for migrating to the UK (or any other country) than the legal route is open to them. Most (if not all) of the people under discussion, though, do not qualify for legal migration.

If they then decide to break the law simply to bypass the system to get what they want why should any country bend over to accept them? Does any country really want to accept criminals into its population? It's bad enough in any country trying to keep the lid on existing criminal populations.

Immigration laws are put in place to try to find an equitable solution for both immigrants and the indigenous population. People who break those laws can not work legally so where does the argument about the best chance of working come from?

The fact that I would or would not stay in a migrant camp is totally hypothetical nonsense and fails as an argument on that basis.

 

[MikeD]

One assumes if they are from Syria they have travelled through:
Turkey
Greece
Italy
Germany
Belgium
Holland
France

Or something like that

But they have travelled through many countries that are settled politically and are safe with welfare systems.

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[Langtoftlad]

I do not say I do not understand their motivation - I say their motivation to enter Britain is purely economic.
So yes @Mattyjwr it is absolutely "self inflicted" deprivation as 'safety' is obtained at first nation, not country of choice... When you have or express a preference, then you're an economic migrant, not a politically persecuted one.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I do have a personal interest in this - my niece married a Canadian. The hurdles, the separation they've had to ensure ( and still do) to get legal entry mean I get very frustrated & angry at those who think they should be able to simply ignore the rules, the processes and just jump the queue.
NO!

 

[Langtoftlad]

On an individual basis I do have empathy with some of these migrants but I'm sorry, some of our own citizens suffer deprivation, can't feed themselves nor their families... or can't afford to keep themselves warm.
As a civilised nation, we of course need to offer safe haven but I'm sorry, not just because life is tough in your own country.
Life is tough for many of our own citizens.
And yes, it IS unfortunately luck of the draw where one is born. Life is not fair.
All those Calais illegal migrants are there by their own choice...

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[Glandwr]

Gosh you would hardly credit that we have what is universally acknowledged as the greatest humanitarian disaster since WW2 unfolding on the doorstep of Europe.

Take Syria, 10 million men women and children have been bombed or driven out of their homes. That does not include the quarter of a million that didn’t move and where slaughtered. 4 million are now out of the country. The majority in the living hell of huge shanty refugee camps with no work or possessions and with minimal hope of return. All that has happened in 3 years. They make up the majority of the 200,000 that washed up in Italy and Greece last year. All that in a country that the UN considered a “middle income” state in 2011.

Then there is Lybia no civil war there! A totally failed state! No police, Law, no work, no hope and summary execution at the will of which ever faction controls your town today. A bit further and there is Somalia in similar situation and the stories coming out of the largely closed Eritrea are telling of a state along the lines of Pol Pot’s Cambodia without the genocide yet. The list goes on.

The situation is very grave, ask anyone who knows the real story. Ask Farage who demanded 2 years ago that Cameron take in Syria refugees saying that it was the duty of all western countries to offer asylum to those fleeing for their lives. Rather shamefacedly he backtracked 36 hours later after hearing the views of his “people’s army”.

To those that say “they are nothing to do with us let them die, as long as they don’t come here I don’t care what happens to them” I have a respect for their honesty. But those that hide behind weasel words such as they only come for our benefits and it’s a positive choice, or they are all economic immigrants, or look at their clothes, or that they don’t observe the bureaucracy and jump queues when there is no bloody queue because we are letting none in I really wonder who are they trying to kid? Themselves?

I don’t have an answer, but I do know that burying our heads in the sand won’t help at all and I will look at those young men sheltering in wet blankets under polythene in Calais with as kind an eye as I can.

Dick

 

[Paddywack]

And don't forget our contribution to making their home countries the basket cases that they are today, we have been quite happy to exploit their resources at a fraction of there true value, support despots which were in our interests, then when it all goes pear shaped deny any responsibility.

 

[Deleted34567]

And don't forget our contribution to making their home countries the basket cases that they are today, we have been quite happy to exploit their resources at a fraction of there true value, support despots which were in our interests, then when it all goes pear shaped deny any responsibility.

Well said

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[sdc77]

I don’t have an answer, but I do know that burying our heads in the sand won’t help at all and I will look at those young men sheltering in wet blankets under polythene in Calais with as kind an eye as I can.

I do respect your views but I don't think that as a nation we are burying or heads in the sand. We are perhaps building walls in the sand and manning them.
As far as policies go.. We have one don't we.. Take very few refugees but provide aid on the ground. To solve the problems in most of the countries you speak of would involve military action.. But you criticise previous military action. Surely our safest bet is to provide aid where needed and ensure our military commitments are met in europe and Nato. I feel sorry for these people at calais but I can't help feeling they are desperate to come here as opposed to being just desperate.

 

[GJH]

So let's just say we did allow all those migrants who are waiting in Calais to enter the UK - and the ones who would inevitably follow them as well.
We apparently have a housing crisis so where would they live?
We apparently have more than 1.8 million people unemployed so where would they find work.
We apparently have a situation where millions need the help of food banks so where would they obtain food from?
We have an economy which apparently cannot support our own population in other ways so how is it to support all the extra people with no jobs, no food and nowhere to live?

There are humanitarian crises in various countries of the world but none of them will be solved by exacerbating economic crises elsewhere in the world. We can, to an extent, provide help in the form of overseas aid to solve problems where there are people who can implement that help effectively. In other cases (Syria and Libya are probably the best examples) that is not a solution because of the difficulty in identifying who would use the aid properly - let's not forget that many of the forces opposing Assad, who the PC brigade said we should support have turned out to be the very terrorists who also threaten this country.

There will always be conflicts of varying intensity as it is a part human nature. At the end of the day it is the people of each country who must solve their own problems, just as the people of the UK have been doing for at least the last 800 years starting with Magna Carta.

 

[SandT]

For those that say the UK don't take in enough immigrants from non EU countries ..

For the year ending December 2014 290,000 legal immigrants from non EU countries.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/latest-immigration-statistics

How many illegals is just a guess but ......

The number thought to be in the UK could be as high as 863,000 – larger than the population of Leeds.

By comparison, Italy was thought to have up to 461,000, Germany had 457,000, France’s top estimate was 400,000 and Spain had 354,000.

The biggest source of illegal immigration was made up of people sneaking into the country hidden in lorries, trains or boats.

Terry

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[chaser]

So let's just say we did allow all those migrants who are waiting in Calais to enter the UK - and the ones who would inevitably follow them as well.
We apparently have a housing crisis so where would they live?
We apparently have more than 1.8 million people unemployed so where would they find work.
We apparently have a situation where millions need the help of food banks so where would they obtain food from?
We have an economy which apparently cannot support our own population in other ways so how is it to support all the extra people with no jobs, no food and nowhere to live?

There are humanitarian crises in various countries of the world but none of them will be solved by exacerbating economic crises elsewhere in the world. We can, to an extent, provide help in the form of overseas aid to solve problems where there are people who can implement that help effectively. In other cases (Syria and Libya are probably the best examples) that is not a solution because of the difficulty in identifying who would use the aid properly - let's not forget that many of the forces opposing Assad, who the PC brigade said we should support have turned out to be the very terrorists who also threaten this country.

There will always be conflicts of varying intensity as it is a part human nature. At the end of the day it is the people of each country who must solve their own problems, just as the people of the UK have been doing for at least the last 800 years starting with Magna Carta.

Graham , I don't always agree with some of your posts, but this one you have absolutely hit the nail on the head, how anyone could disagree with your points there , I do not know.
Why can't people see this.
It probably won't happen in our life time but this country is heading to be a third world country, when all the land is gone to house all and sundry that wash up here, where is the food coming from , and the money to keep them, I dread to think what's going to happen.

 

[iandsm]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but when looking at the many pictures published in various newspapers, there are pictures of men, women and children of different origins who are very obviously refugees fleeing from desperate circumstances, they look as if they wold be grateful for any assistance.

Those who inhabit the camps at Calais are mainly young fit looking men, few women and children are in evidence. Exclusively, the ones seen attempting to get in lorries, or walking the roads near the port or just hanging about are these young men. These would be migrants seem to be a rather different bunch.

 

[Microchip]

We normally overnight in Citie Europe, but due to the recent reports we will catch early morning train going out, and a late train coming back.
For years we've always used Citie Europe but my missus don't feel safe there any more.
Shame the French don't move the illegals on, and our government stopping the handouts that is known worldwide.

Keith..

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