NHS rules for non residents (1 Viewer)

[Don Quixote]

[HI]You do not have to pay tax in both countries[/HI]. I am now resident in France and have completed the form and now pay tax in France and in UK i am rated NT (no tax). Look into it! :thumb:

Not true I MUST pay tax on the military pension in the UK any other tax of the UK I do not, therefore I'm STILL in the eyes of the law a UK Tax paying resident period. Acorrding the the DWP I'm now a NT, however they cannot explain why I still pay tax on my military pension and when I reach 65 years old I can receive my UK pension, BUT it will be taxed first before I receive it........................................ They also say I can have FULL medical cover and EHIC ( if it still exists ) from my 65 birthday as I paid my taxes for that!!!!!! ( though that might change to my 70th birthday )

Again it's the UK, so one law of one side of the fence and one law for the other!

 

[Wyaye wires]

I have just received my new UK passport renewal after 8 weeks, ( Kath's was sorted in 6 days) having also sent my Australian passport as required by law and the delay was allegedly for further identity checks. During one of the many phone call conversations the person I was talking to asked if I was still permanently resident in the UK. So I wonder f they are checking through passport renewals too?

 

[Don Quixote]

ShiftZZ;894446]May I suggest that this is a law designed for some who abuse the system, wherever you draw the line, some people will be ‘roped’ in who should not.
Some observations,

a) At some point in the future, citizens of the UK or past citizens, who live in another country, should formally adopt that country as their ‘home’. You have chosen to live there, your choice.
I have done that and have no problems in doing that.

b) There are individuals who live abroad, and have done so for a long time, paid very little into the system and still they are entitled to the benefits based on their tax and NI contributions in the late 70’s early 80’s. Is that fair? Is it fair that by virtue of birth they are entitled to all the benefits afforded to those paying tax here?
This is NOT the late 70/80's I have PAID my taxes in full and have a letter from the DWP stating this! - I agree with you it is not fair if someone who has not paid the taxes to get the benefits - so SEND THE GRAY IMPORTS BACK HOME

The problem is that the services are stretched to the limit, caused by overuse, mismanagement and sheer waste. At some point someone will have to say enough s enough.
Again you are right the UK is in SH1T state because of mismanagement and that is not my fault so WHY SHOULD I as a taxing paying UK Passport holder suffer!

Argue as much as you wish, I can see the logic in the argument that if you have not been here for 6 months then you have to pay. You could simply pop in, get treated and bugger off again. Is that fair?
I'm not talking about 6 months here and 6 months there - I talking about my right to claim what I paid taxes for all my working life. If I enter the UK now I cannot claim medical cover on the UK EHIC dated 2016 in my pocket ( emergency would be covered by European law as the UK say they are in the EU ) but nothing else.........

Sooner or later, the EU will clamp down on the ‘I'll just pop back to get my MOT’. Then I can travel as much as I like, is that fair?
I have never claimed in any of my posts[/U] that I want it to "pop back for the MOT" - My point is that you can claim nothing at all even though you pay ALL the taxes NO EHIC or allowances granted by law to a UK citizen.

The NHS and other services depend on a steady flow of taxpayer’s money, it can’t survive on money paid in 40 years ago, that’s well gone.
Again you are right, however again the UK is in SH1T state because as you have already stated poor management, however the "flow of taxpayers money" would be fine if the "gray imports" and the free loaders whom have not done a days work in their life PAID TAXES................. It's easier to penalise law bidding citizens as they will not break the law

The problem will be made worse by the sheer migration of individuals, Romanians, Bulgarians and other will be allowed free movement and that will entitle them to ‘free’ medical care and other services, all paid for by the UK taxpayers. At some point the system will collapse and then what? You turn people away?
Well they are ALREADY TURNING AWAY UK CITIZENS WHO HAVE PAID THEIR TAXES

The ‘I’m entitled’ culture will soon be replace by ‘you’re not, pay up’ and that will cause another problem. The EU system is, as communism was , good I theory, it simply will not work. You will end up with the developed countries full and the likes of Bulgaria and Romania slipping back into the middle ages.
I cannot argue with you on the last point, but I have paid up..........................

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[buttons]

Not been reading posts or posting much lately so I don’t know if this has been discussed recently.

Went to doctors today and told him that I was thinking of spending more time abroad in the next year.

He warned me that if I spent more than 6 months in any calendar year away I would lose eligibility for free treatment and would be billed as a private patient.
He said that scanned passports would record time away/in the UK.

He did say that it was 6 months in any calendar year - does that mean it’s OK if you leave in July and return June the next year? If so most ‘snowbirds’ would be OK anyway but not those who took ‘holidays’ in the year that add up to more than 6 months.

With the length of the waiting lists for hospital treatment the chances are that you would have re-qualified for free treatment before your appointment date.

 

[ShiftZZ]

ShiftZZ;894446]May I suggest that this is a law designed for some who abuse the system, wherever you draw the line, some people will be ‘roped’ in who should not.
Some observations,

a) At some point in the future, citizens of the UK or past citizens, who live in another country, should formally adopt that country as their ‘home’. You have chosen to live there, your choice.
I have done that and have no problems in doing that.

b) There are individuals who live abroad, and have done so for a long time, paid very little into the system and still they are entitled to the benefits based on their tax and NI contributions in the late 70’s early 80’s. Is that fair? Is it fair that by virtue of birth they are entitled to all the benefits afforded to those paying tax here?
This is NOT the late 70/80's I have PAID my taxes in full and have a letter from the DWP stating this! - I agree with you it is not fair if someone who has not paid the taxes to get the benefits - so SEND THE GRAY IMPORTS BACK HOME

The problem is that the services are stretched to the limit, caused by overuse, mismanagement and sheer waste. At some point someone will have to say enough s enough.
Again you are right the UK is in SH1T state because of mismanagement and that is not my fault so WHY SHOULD I as a taxing paying UK Passport holder suffer!

Argue as much as you wish, I can see the logic in the argument that if you have not been here for 6 months then you have to pay. You could simply pop in, get treated and bugger off again. Is that fair?
I'm not talking about 6 months here and 6 months there - I talking about my right to claim what I paid taxes for all my working life. If I enter the UK now I cannot claim medical cover on the UK EHIC dated 2016 in my pocket ( emergency would be covered by European law as the UK say they are in the EU ) but nothing else.........

Sooner or later, the EU will clamp down on the ‘I'll just pop back to get my MOT’. Then I can travel as much as I like, is that fair?
I have never claimed in any of my posts[/U] that I want it to "pop back for the MOT" - My point is that you can claim nothing at all even though you pay ALL the taxes NO EHIC or allowances granted by law to a UK citizen.

The NHS and other services depend on a steady flow of taxpayer’s money, it can’t survive on money paid in 40 years ago, that’s well gone.
Again you are right, however again the UK is in SH1T state because as you have already stated poor management, however the "flow of taxpayers money" would be fine if the "gray imports" and the free loaders whom have not done a days work in their life PAID TAXES................. It's easier to penalise law bidding citizens as they will not break the law

The problem will be made worse by the sheer migration of individuals, Romanians, Bulgarians and other will be allowed free movement and that will entitle them to ‘free’ medical care and other services, all paid for by the UK taxpayers. At some point the system will collapse and then what? You turn people away?
Well they are ALREADY TURNING AWAY UK CITIZENS WHO HAVE PAID THEIR TAXES

The ‘I’m entitled’ culture will soon be replace by ‘you’re not, pay up’ and that will cause another problem. The EU system is, as communism was , good I theory, it simply will not work. You will end up with the developed countries full and the likes of Bulgaria and Romania slipping back into the middle ages.
I cannot argue with you on the last point, but I have paid up..........................

John

My post was not aimed at any particular individual, the problem exists in the original concept of the NHS, “free at the point of use for people legally resident in the United Kingdom” and that’s the fundamental flaw. We can’t differentiate between who is legally entitled to have that treatment or welfare.

Healthcare, science, technology and the NHS have moved on, and when it was originally designed and conceived few would have predicted the vast migration of individuals. This has been made far far worse by our inability to identify those entitled. That opens up the ID card debate.

This is going to be controversial, the NHS is in fact self financed, by that I mean, the Government (taxes) allocate £x Billions pa to run it, once that £X Billions is spent that’s it. So if you paid your NI and tax in 1976 or whatever year you chose, that and only that year is covered, it does not or should not cover you for any ‘future’ treatment, its only the same as saying, I paid the AA for 15 years, I then stopped paying and now my motorhome has broken down in and I need to have it recovered, you can’t. The problem is where you draw the line, as is always the case. If you said, to get full coverage you need to have paid at least 20 years into the system then those who have paid 19 years and 11 months would not be covered. An no doubt would start legal action in the ECHR.
Any health care that is better than your ‘home’ health care will attract health tourists, and again I can understand the logic. In the future, I can see UK, Germany and the French health services being overrun and facing collapse, those funding it can’t keep up with non domestic taxpayers.

It’s a problem, both healthcare and ID that needs sorting out, otherwise I can see big issues ahead.

 

[mentaliss]

John

My post was not aimed at any particular individual, the problem exists in the original concept of the NHS, “free at the point of use for people legally resident in the United Kingdom” and that’s the fundamental flaw. We can’t differentiate between who is legally entitled to have that treatment or welfare.

Healthcare, science, technology and the NHS have moved on, and when it was originally designed and conceived few would have predicted the vast migration of individuals. This has been made far far worse by our inability to identify those entitled. That opens up the ID card debate.

This is going to be controversial, the NHS is in fact self financed, by that I mean, the Government (taxes) allocate £x Billions pa to run it, once that £X Billions is spent that’s it. So if you paid your NI and tax in 1976 or whatever year you chose, that and only that year is covered, it does not or should not cover you for any ‘future’ treatment, its only the same as saying, I paid the AA for 15 years, I then stopped paying and now my motorhome has broken down in and I need to have it recovered, you can’t. The problem is where you draw the line, as is always the case. If you said, to get full coverage you need to have paid at least 20 years into the system then those who have paid 19 years and 11 months would not be covered. An no doubt would start legal action in the ECHR.
Any health care that is better than your ‘home’ health care will attract health tourists, and again I can understand the logic. In the future, I can see UK, Germany and the French health services being overrun and facing collapse, those funding it can’t keep up with non domestic taxpayers.

It’s a problem, both healthcare and ID that needs sorting out, otherwise I can see big issues ahead.

THE FINAL SOLUTION then must be to vote to get out of Europe and manager our own country and tell Brussels that we no longer want to be told by unelected Bureaucrat's how to run one of the oldest democracy's in the world and once again remind ourselves why generation's of people crossed the channel to defend our Freedom and our way of life and never came back :Angry:

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[Barclaybasher]

THE FINAL SOLUTION then must be to vote to get out of Europe and manager our own country and tell Brussels that we no longer want to be told by unelected Bureaucrat's how to run one of the oldest democracy's in the world and once again remind ourselves why generation's of people crossed the channel to defend our Freedom and our way of life and never came back :Angry:

If there is only one good reason for 'being in Europe' it is to bring countries together and prevent wars with our neighbours

 

[Munchie]

In the EU there is a "double taxation" law which does not allow you to be taxed twice!!! Look into it!
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/dta-intro.htm

 

[spitfire]

In the EU there is a "double taxation" law which does not allow you to be taxed twice!!! Look into it!
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/dta-intro.htm

Yes I know the double taxation agreement however certain pensions are taxed in UK (not a choice is a given ) But all income whether already taxed or not must be declared on France and should that total income including the income already taxed take you over the French tax threshold then you do pay more tax !

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[Don Quixote]

In the EU there is a "double taxation" law which does not allow you to be taxed twice!!! Look into it!

Ken, what makes you think I have not look at it! There is one law for the UK and one for the rest of the EU. The DWP office states that regardless of were we live the military pension MUST be taxed at source ie: in the UK and cannot be transferred, however the basic UK pension can be transferred and taxed in another country with the correct forms being completed. This makes a joke of the whole thing really
We have given up and get getting on with our lives and hope we make it to the age of 70 and then I can use the lot..................... that is if they do not move the goal posts and change the UK retirement age to 80 hoping that a high percentage don't make it!!!, but thats another story................

 

[Munchie]

I didn't. Thought you might not know of it. Complex ain't it?

 

[mentaliss]

If there is only one good reason for 'being in Europe' it is to bring countries together and prevent wars with our neighbours

sorry burstner, were already at war by stealth... and reading most of the posts here there appears to be great concern, frustration and anger as to the platitudes and 'look the other way' this government has adopted to the Brussels attitude

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[mondo]

But..If you get shot in the head by Insurgents you can come to the UK and (Never having paid into the system) get a neuro surgeon and countless nurses and full back up to operate on you....The system stinks..especially when a serviceman injured in the line of duty has his money stopped because he went out selling poppies..Is that right!!...


NO!!

 

[billkce]

Interesting thread.:thumb:

Just one question, which I don't think has been covered.

If one has a permanent UK residence, pays UK tax & NIC but, like many thousands currently 'living/staying/visiting' Iberia every winter, does this law apply.

i.e. What is the proper definition for 'living' abroad.

Like Mariner, when I served abroad in the RAF & was working on loan to BAe in Saudi, it was not counted as 'living out of the UK'

Therefore, , hypothetically of course, if I were to spend more than 6 months in any one year in my MH 'visiting' Europe, does this NHS rule apply to me?

Secondly, if it does - how does my local GP ever find out unless I tell him?oh:

Merry Xmas

 

[Barclaybasher]

My doctor told me that the six months would be in the calendar year - Jan 1st to Dec 31st.

So I would think if you could spend from August one year to May the next year away and still be OK.

Scanned passports are to be used as proof of entry/exit and any treatment would be billed.

Not sure that any of this will ever happen though...............

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[ShiftZZ]

But..If you get shot in the head by Insurgents you can come to the UK and (Never having paid into the system) get a neuro surgeon and countless nurses and full back up to operate on you....The system stinks..especially when a serviceman injured in the line of duty has his money stopped because he went out selling poppies..Is that right!!...


NO!!

I think the one you are thinking about was the young girl who was being encouraged by the BBC to write her blog. all now living in the UK.

"In late 2008, when Aamer Ahmed Khan of the BBC Urdu website and his colleagues had discussed a novel way of covering the Taliban’s growing influence in Swat: Why not find a schoolgirl to blog anonymously about her life there? Their correspondent in Peshawar, Abdul Hai Kakar, had been in touch with a local school teacher, Ziauddin Yousafzai, but couldn’t find any students willing to do it. It was too dangerous, their families said. Finally, Yousafzai suggested his own daughter, 11-year-old Malala."


So they knew the risks..

 

[braunston2]

Hi,

The money used to pay for things like the Health Service and other benefits in the UK is not derived solely from income tax and or NI contributions, the whole taxation system is extremely complex and intertwined to cover the whole benefit/health/welfare budget.

Therefore people who chose to live outside of the UK's overall taxation system are not paying fully into the welfare/health budget, and shouldn't expect the rest of us who do contribute to pay for there health/welfare care,

If you want the full benefits you need to keep paying in and not just direct taxation or NI contributions you need to be spending money in this country also, as a substantial amount of indirect taxation comes from that area of the UK economy.

The money used for welfare and health IS NOT GOVERNMENT MONEY, the GOVERNMENT DOESN'T HAVE MONEY, it also doesn't have any savings all of what has already been paid in HAS BEEN SPENT, so all of the costs of this ?FREE? Health/welfare System, come directly from the people who are living here now and paying taxes by either DIRECT means, income tax, or INDIRECT means, purchasing goods in the UK, which are then used to pay back the loans the government are making on our behalf,

e.g. taxes from young people trying to make something of there life on minimum wage are paying into this taxation system everyday, so some people can holiday in the sun for months and months and then expect these kids to pick up the tab.

Something needs to change ?