NHS rules for non residents (1 Viewer)

[Barclaybasher]

Not been reading posts or posting much lately so I don’t know if this has been discussed recently.

Went to doctors today and told him that I was thinking of spending more time abroad in the next year.

He warned me that if I spent more than 6 months in any calendar year away I would lose eligibility for free treatment and would be billed as a private patient.

He said that scanned passports would record time away/in the UK.

He did say that it was 6 months in any calendar year - does that mean it’s OK if you leave in July and return June the next year? If so most ‘snowbirds’ would be OK anyway but not those who took ‘holidays’ in the year that add up to more than 6 months.

 

[callumwa]

Sounds like a non starter to me... In September I flew to Morocco to join my ship.

I left the ship in the UK by walking off the jetty and getting into a Taxi, so on the basis of that system I am not in the UK right now as my Passport was not scanned.

Just before Xmas I will go out of the UK again on the way to Portugal. So they system will "record" me leaving "again" even though according to it I have never returned since September.

In the course of a normal year I am out of the country for work for 6 months of the year, and then if you add up to 2 months of foreign holidays on top, where does that leave me. As long as you are Domiciled and Resident in the UK and are paying your taxes I cannot see how they can deny access to the NHS.


HMRC......

"If you're in the UK for fewer than 183 days.....
Even if you're in the UK for fewer than 183 days in a tax year, you might still be UK resident.
If you come to the UK to live or work on a continuing basis you will be resident from your arrival.
Factors that affect your residence status include:
whether you have previously been a UK resident
where your family, property, business, work, and social connections are
the pattern and purpose of your visits to the UK
You are likely to be resident if, over a period of several years, your presence in the UK becomes part of the regular pattern of your life.
You will not become resident if your visits are for a short-term, temporary purpose only - for example, you come to the UK for a holiday or for a short business project for a foreign employer. Find out more in the section 'Visiting the UK when you are not resident' later in this guide."

 

[pollykettle]

do not worry

Fly home for a day or 2 not a problem

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[Barclaybasher]

DAILY MAIL ONLINE today:
British pensioners living abroad for more than half the year are to be denied free Health Service treatment.
Such ex-patriates will now have to pay for NHS care back in Britain no matter how much they have contributed in tax and National Insurance over the years.
The Government move will hit thousands who have retired to the Spanish costas or southern France.
Although ex-patriates stand to lose out, the move is largely a response to abuse of the Health Service by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants.
Thousands of so - called 'health tourists' enjoy free treatment, putting a huge strain on the NHS and making British patients wait for beds.
Ministers have pledged to crack down on this fraud, using a rule made in 1989 that those who have spent three months abroad have to pay for treatment in the UK.
The Department of Health has no figures for the number of people who have been made to pay under this rule - evidence that the legislation has not been enforced.
The period abroad is now being extended to six months - but officials will start to vigorously enforce it and pensioners will have to pay in advance for care. Non-pensioners living abroad will also be denied free NHS care, but the 'disqualifying' period has not yet been set.
An Age Concern spokesman said: "Pensioners are going to be very concerned about this because of the implications it has, particularly for long-term health care or those who have terminal illnesses and need to be near family members back in Britain.
"It will also force them into making choices about whether they have treatment in Spain - which ironically would be free under European Union law - or come back home to their family and be forced to pay."
Up to 500,000 British pensioners are thought to live in other EU states.
In May, the Centre for Policy Studies revealed that abuse of the NHS by asylum seekers is so widespread it is becoming known as the 'International Health Service'.
The influential think-tank warned that some 'health tourists' have even run up bills for treatment of £50,000 which the taxpayer is left to shoulder.
The total cost of HIV treatment and care in 2001 was £165million but last year it soared to £ 345million. An influx of asylum seekers with HIV is thought to be to blame.
Tory health spokesman Liam Fox said: "There could be no clearer betrayal of hardworking British citizens than to deprive our own pensioners of the use of the NHS to which they have contributed throughout their lives at a time when health tourists and illegal asylum seekers are making use of these very facilities."
Health Minister John Hutton said the Government is using powers brought in by the Tories. Doubling the period to six months strikes 'a much fairer balance', he added.
Health officials said guidelines on NHS charges will be issued this week along with consultation on tightening the rules for visitors.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...oners-denied-NHS-treatment.html#ixzz2nH5ppaNo
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[Gromett]

Hmm, I normally agree with measures this governement bring in but this one is definitely not on.

I can see why they did it but I think it is a step too far.

 

[mentaliss]

DAILY MAIL ONLINE today:
British pensioners living abroad for more than half the year are to be denied free Health Service treatment.
Such ex-patriates will now have to pay for NHS care back in Britain no matter how much they have contributed in tax and National Insurance over the years.
The Government move will hit thousands who have retired to the Spanish costas or southern France. ...........................
SAME OLD STORY, THIS USELESS GOVERNMENT cant control the borders or don't want to SO what do they do, slap controls in which will effect all the hard working generation's of tax payers... so we will all be tarnished with the same brush as Migrants, doesn't matter if we paid into the system 30-40 years this is of course the problem with the Manager he doesn't really want to upset Brussels, why cant the 'MANAGER' call me DAVE see whats coming if we lived in the Medieval time's call me DAVE would be locked up in the Tower':Angry::Angry:

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[Don Quixote]

We found this out a few months ago. Having lived in Spain for 2 years now we cannot claim EHIC card from UK and are not entitled to any services from the UK, because we moved to Spain ( retired early at 54 years old )......
We were on the phone to the DWP office for 2 hours ( thank God for Skype ) and even though we both served in the Army and have "paid" our stamp duty fully and cleared all taxes before leaving we cannot claim sod all. There is a "get out clause" we could move back to UK and on entering the port can claim to be homeless and as long as we have no income at all can (a) be housed (b) get full health cover (c) get unemployment benefits in or around 80 quid each per week ( more if we had children up to 200 quid!!!! a week ) ANY ONE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!! from another country!!!!
The big problem is we both have military pensions and therefore if we did return would only get health cover out of the list above.
After serving my country for 25 years and my wife for 18 years and have medical problems caused by service time, this SUCKS as you CANNOT leave the UK for any other country or you loose the LOT.

Will we return? not on your life...... why would we ? No council tax, no road tax, no TV license, no hassle and with a great medical service here in Spain ( we got medical cover by becoming residents and a Spanish EHIC card covering US whilst back in the UK ) and a home where the sun shines 320 days a year on average and we can jump in our MH as and when we want..... Enough said.

The UK government does not give a toss about it's own people and is more concerned about so called human rights" of the "gray imports" !!!!!!!!!

 

[Wildman]

Whilst in theory this is a blow, the NHS do not charge health tourist now the papaerwork is to complicated and time consuming do you really think they will make an exception and charge ex pats. Get real its a paper exercise.

 

[busby]

DAILY MAIL ONLINE today:
British pensioners living abroad for more than half the year are to be denied free Health Service treatment.
Such ex-patriates will now have to pay for NHS care back in Britain no matter how much they have contributed in tax and National Insurance over the years.
The Government move will hit thousands who have retired to the Spanish costas or southern France.
Although ex-patriates stand to lose out, the move is largely a response to abuse of the Health Service by asylum seekers and illegal immigrants.
Thousands of so - called 'health tourists' enjoy free treatment, putting a huge strain on the NHS and making British patients wait for beds.
Ministers have pledged to crack down on this fraud, using a rule made in 1989 that those who have spent three months abroad have to pay for treatment in the UK.
The Department of Health has no figures for the number of people who have been made to pay under this rule - evidence that the legislation has not been enforced.
The period abroad is now being extended to six months - but officials will start to vigorously enforce it and pensioners will have to pay in advance for care. Non-pensioners living abroad will also be denied free NHS care, but the 'disqualifying' period has not yet been set.
An Age Concern spokesman said: "Pensioners are going to be very concerned about this because of the implications it has, particularly for long-term health care or those who have terminal illnesses and need to be near family members back in Britain.
"It will also force them into making choices about whether they have treatment in Spain - which ironically would be free under European Union law - or come back home to their family and be forced to pay."
Up to 500,000 British pensioners are thought to live in other EU states.
In May, the Centre for Policy Studies revealed that abuse of the NHS by asylum seekers is so widespread it is becoming known as the 'International Health Service'.
The influential think-tank warned that some 'health tourists' have even run up bills for treatment of £50,000 which the taxpayer is left to shoulder.
The total cost of HIV treatment and care in 2001 was £165million but last year it soared to £ 345million. An influx of asylum seekers with HIV is thought to be to blame.
Tory health spokesman Liam Fox said: "There could be no clearer betrayal of hardworking British citizens than to deprive our own pensioners of the use of the NHS to which they have contributed throughout their lives at a time when health tourists and illegal asylum seekers are making use of these very facilities."
Health Minister John Hutton said the Government is using powers brought in by the Tories. Doubling the period to six months strikes 'a much fairer balance', he added.
Health officials said guidelines on NHS charges will be issued this week along with consultation on tightening the rules for visitors.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...oners-denied-NHS-treatment.html#ixzz2nH5ppaNo
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ALL THAT WILL BE 100% CORRECT, THE DAILY MAIL HAS PRINTED IT.BUSBY

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[busby]

We found this out a few months ago. Having lived in Spain for 2 years now we cannot claim EHIC card from UK and are not entitled to any services from the UK, because we moved to Spain ( retired early at 54 years old )......
We were on the phone to the DWP office for 2 hours ( thank God for Skype ) and even though we both served in the Army and have "paid" our stamp duty fully and cleared all taxes before leaving we cannot claim sod all. There is a "get out clause" we could move back to UK and on entering the port can claim to be homeless and as long as we have no income at all can (a) be housed (b) get full health cover (c) get unemployment benefits in or around 80 quid each per week ( more if we had children up to 200 quid!!!! a week ) ANY ONE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!! from another country!!!!
The big problem is we both have military pensions and therefore if we did return would only get health cover out of the list above.
After serving my country for 25 years and my wife for 18 years and have medical problems caused by service time, this SUCKS as you CANNOT leave the UK for any other country or you loose the LOT.

Will we return? not on your life...... why would we ? No council tax, no road tax, no TV license, no hassle and with a great medical service here in Spain ( we got medical cover by becoming residents and a Spanish EHIC card covering US whilst back in the UK ) and a home where the sun shines 320 days a year on average and we can jump in our MH as and when we want..... Enough said.

The UK government does not give a toss about it's own people and is more concerned about so called human rights" of the "gray imports" !!!!!!!!!

There is an election coming..they are vote catching. I thought these rules had applied for at least ten years anyway but has never been applied because the computer system that monitors your arrival and departures is not up to speed. BUSBY

 

[mentaliss]

We found this out a few months ago. Having lived in Spain for 2 years now we cannot claim EHIC card from UK and are not entitled to any services from the UK, because we moved to Spain ( retired early at 54 years old )......
We were on the phone to the DWP office for 2 hours ( thank God for Skype ) and even though we both served in the Army and have "paid" our stamp duty fully and cleared all taxes before leaving we cannot claim sod all. There is a "get out clause" we could move back to UK and on entering the port can claim to be homeless and as long as we have no income at all can (a) be housed (b) get full health cover (c) get unemployment benefits in or around 80 quid each per week ( more if we had children up to 200 quid!!!! a week ) ANY ONE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!! from another country!!!!
The big problem is we both have military pensions and therefore if we did return would only get health cover out of the list above.
After serving my country for 25 years and my wife for 18 years and have medical problems caused by service time, this SUCKS as you CANNOT leave the UK for any other country or you loose the LOT.

Will we return? not on your life...... why would we ? No council tax, no road tax, no TV license, no hassle and with a great medical service here in Spain ( we got medical cover by becoming residents and a Spanish EHIC card covering US whilst back in the UK ) and a home where the sun shines 320 days a year on average and we can jump in our MH as and when we want..... Enough said.

The UK government does not give a toss about it's own people and is more concerned about so called human rights" of the "gray imports" !!!!!!!!!

QUESTION IS THEN would 'call me DAVE' be considered as a 'betrayer' to the people as his main priority is too keep the people of this country safe and free from turmoil and not worrying when he might become the EU President :Sad:

 

[Billy23]

Not been reading posts or posting much lately so I don’t know if this has been discussed recently.

Went to doctors today and told him that I was thinking of spending more time abroad in the next year.

He warned me that if I spent more than 6 months in any calendar year away I would lose eligibility for free treatment and would be billed as a private patient.

He said that scanned passports would record time away/in the UK.

He did say that it was 6 months in any calendar year - does that mean it’s OK if you leave in July and return June the next year? If so most ‘snowbirds’ would be OK anyway but not those who took ‘holidays’ in the year that add up to more than 6 months.

Mistake one, telling him!

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[Barclaybasher]

After working all my life, paying taxes (still !!) at 68 - and I will still be paying when I am abroad - this just isn't right !

500,000 Brits abroad, lots on the internet - one for an online petition?

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Marvellous, pay taxes and NI all your life and then when you retire (NO MORE NI payable on retirement by the way) you cannot get what you have paid for but all the scroungers and tourists and immigrants who have paid sod all get it freely

Easy answer UK Passport (photo identity) and N.I. number proves you have paid
but then that would take a brain to think of that, something these idiots are sadly lacking unless its PC, HSE and Human Rights Act or being a jobsworth.

Peter

 

[spitfire]

Ok folks you think it s crazy ? Read on :-

Have lived in France for 10 years and continued to pay UK tax on certain pensions under the double taxation agreement with France.

Until official retirement age I paid 8% of our income to the French system to cover medical care ( really the equivalent of NI in UK ) plus an annual policy to cover the 30% not aid by the state. Everything except life threatening illness is only 70% paid for. I still have to cover the 30% with an insurance.

At retirement age UK took over responsibility for my healthcare paying the 70% to the French system should I need treatment. They now issue my European Health Card now too When France did in the past BUT it does not entitle me to treatment in the UK even on holiday there !!

And after 15 years they disenfranchise me too !! But don't stop taking my income tax .

Is that a crazy mixed up mess !!

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[ourcampersbeentrashed]

I think they are "picking on" British pensioners because they are the only people they can trace and charge.

How can they track all the people who have never lived in England who come here just for free medical treatment or to give birth?????

These are the people they should be targetting not people who have paid into the system their whole life

 

[mariner]

So gap year students who do a 12 month world tour lose their right to NHS treatment on return?

The Engineer who takes a 12 month contract abroad, loses the right to future NHS treatment, on return?

I don't think so.

 

[Coolbeanz]

We found this out a few months ago. Having lived in Spain for 2 years now we cannot claim EHIC card from UK and are not entitled to any services from the UK, because we moved to Spain ( retired early at 54 years old )......
We were on the phone to the DWP office for 2 hours ( thank God for Skype ) and even though we both served in the Army and have "paid" our stamp duty fully and cleared all taxes before leaving we cannot claim sod all. There is a "get out clause" we could move back to UK and [HI]on entering the port can claim to be homeless and as long as we have no income at all can (a) be housed (b) get full health cover (c) get unemployment benefits in or around 80 quid each per week ( more if we had children up to 200 quid!!!! a week ) ANY ONE CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!! from another country!!!![/HI]
The big problem is we both have military pensions and therefore if we did return would only get health cover out of the list above.
After serving my country for 25 years and my wife for 18 years and have medical problems caused by service time, this SUCKS as you CANNOT leave the UK for any other country or you loose the LOT.

Will we return? not on your life...... why would we ? No council tax, no road tax, no TV license, no hassle and with a great medical service here in Spain ( we got medical cover by becoming residents and a Spanish EHIC card covering US whilst back in the UK ) and a home where the sun shines 320 days a year on average and we can jump in our MH as and when we want..... Enough said.

The UK government does not give a toss about it's own people and is more concerned about so called human rights" of the "gray imports" !!!!!!!!!

I am sorry but this is not true, but a common misconception that anyone can turn up from any country and claim everything they need. I work for the Welfare Rights Team at my local Council so I receive referrals to help families from various countries and this is definitely not the case.

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[Don Quixote]

I am sorry but this is not true, but a common misconception that anyone can turn up from any country and claim everything they need. I work for the Welfare Rights Team at my local Council so I receive referrals to help families from various countries and this is definitely not the case.

I'm sorry but that is what I was told over the phone from the DWP and you can quote me on that one............. FACT - call them from your office tomorrow if you wish ! he did STATE that things would not happen right away, but over a period of time I WOULD GET THE LOT providing I had NO INCOME........................................

 

[Coolbeanz]

I'm sorry but that is what I was told over the phone from the DWP and you can quote me on that one............. FACT - call them from your office tomorrow if you wish ! he did STATE that things would not happen right away, but over a period of time I WOULD GET THE LOT providing I had NO INCOME........................................

well that explains why you were given the wrong info then, we frequently have to appeal their decisions and invariably win!!

 

[Spenders]

'No Recourse to Public Funds'

I can confirm what Coolbeanz says.... In my recent working life I had to deal with many families who desperately needed help, but if the above phrase was stamped in their passport.. or they couldn't prove that it wasn't, they literally got nothing!

Of course, it only really applied to non-EU residents. EU residents like us, can freely move within the EU.

Simon

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[Don Quixote]

I can confirm what Coolbeanz says.... In my recent working life I had to deal with many families who desperately needed help, but if the above phrase was stamped in their passport.. or they couldn't prove that it wasn't, they literally got nothing!

Of course, it only really applied to non-EU residents. EU residents like us, can freely move within the EU.

Simon

No Recourse to Public Funds is total bollocks as I WORKED AND SEVERED my country and have medals to prove it and CANNOT claim what I PAID for............... ( Simon I'm not getting at you ) all because I chose to live outside the UK THIS IS WRONG as what authorities are saying is "you cannot leave the UK"

AGAIN I state the UK DOES NOT GIVE A TOSS about their own.

 

[mariner]

If you live abroad, claim residence, accept benefits, and pay tax in that country, then you are no longer UK resident. That was your choice, live with it, you can't have it both ways.

If you are UK resident, you pay your taxes/NI in the UK and have a UK address then, even if you spend 6months plus out of the country, you are a UK resident, entitled to all the benefits the UK provides should you need them.

 

[Don Quixote]

If you live abroad, claim residence, accept benefits, and pay tax in that country, then you are no longer UK resident. That was your choice, live with it, you can't have it both ways.

If you are UK resident, you pay your taxes/NI in the UK and have a UK address then, even if you spend 6months plus out of the country, you are a UK resident, entitled to all the benefits the UK provides should you need them.

Firstly I was not claiming residence or accepting benefits when I first came to Spain ( and I do not claim/accept any benefits from the Spanish system ), and my tax is paid EVERY YEAR in the UK at source by the Ministry of Defense for serving my counrty ( so I'm paying a UK TAX as a UK resident! )
You are correct I'm not a UK resident in the same way I was not a UK resident whilst serving in the Army around the world for 25 years, however the UK STATES it is NOW part of the EU of which I live in.
I do not want it both ways I want "what I bloody well worked for all my life" by paying UK TAXES unlike some!!!!!! I can live with it, so don't worry I have better things t do with my life than worry about the sh!t state the UK is in right now.

Now back to my bottle of wine whilst it's 13C outside the MH right now in Totana on my way to Portugal for 2 months, with or with out UK assistance.

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[mariner]

Firstly I was not claiming residence or accepting benefits when I first came to Spain ( and I do not claim/accept any benefits from the Spanish system ), and my tax is paid EVERY YEAR in the UK at source by the Ministry of Defense for serving my counrty ( so I'm paying a UK TAX as a UK resident! )
You are correct I'm not a UK resident in the same way I was not a UK resident whilst serving in the Army around the world for 25 years, however the UK STATES it is NOW part of the EU of which I live in.
I do not want it both ways I want "what I bloody well worked for all my life" by paying UK TAXES unlike some!!!!!! I can live with it, so don't worry I have better things t do with my life than worry about the sh!t state the UK is in right now.




Now back to my bottle of wine whilst it's 13C outside the MH right now in Totana on my way to Portugal for 2 months, with or with out UK assistance.

I spend more than 6 months in Spain every year, I don't have Residencia nor even an NIE. I don't own property here or a car.
I am therefore UK resident, even though I prefer Spain to the UK. My choice is to stay UK resident, even though it means I have to go back for MOT and such like.
I am ex-Army and I know that Army service abroad counts as being UK resident.

I don't claim any benefit, not even heating allowance, but I prefer to retain my UK residency because that is my choice.

 

[mitzimad]

same old story people already in the system are easy targets chasing anyone whose not is hard work

 

[spitfire]

If you live abroad, claim residence, accept benefits, and pay tax in that country, then you are no longer UK resident. That was your choice, live with it, you can't have it both ways.

If you are UK resident, you pay your taxes/NI in the UK and have a UK address then, even if you spend 6months plus out of the country, you are a UK resident, entitled to all the benefits the UK provides should you need them.

Sorry if it offends but that is bit unfair. As a resident of a European country we are still obliged to pay tax in the UK as well as our country of residence. I am not complaining at doing ths as I knew ths when I took up residence. But I am saying that it is unfair to deny me medical care if I fall ill when visiting my country of origin. Especially when medical care s freely available to people who have jst arrived in the country and have as yet not contributed to the system.

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[busby]

This ruling as i said earlier has been in for ten years and never implemented . Worried me at time but have often been away over six months and have never had problems with treatment. Just had a new knee. BUSBY

 

[ShiftZZ]

May I suggest that this is a law designed for some who abuse the system, wherever you draw the line, some people will be ‘roped’ in who should not.
Some observations,

a) At some point in the future, citizens of the UK or past citizens, who live in another country, should formally adopt that country as their ‘home’. You have chosen to live there, your choice.
b) There are individuals who live abroad, and have done so for a long time, paid very little into the system and still they are entitled to the benefits based on their tax and NI contributions in the late 70’s early 80’s. Is that fair? Is it fair that by virtue of birth they are entitled to all the benefits afforded to those paying tax here?

The problem is that the services are stretched to the limit, caused by overuse, mismanagement and sheer waste. At some point someone will have to say enough s enough.

Argue as much as you wish, I can see the logic in the argument that if you have not been here for 6 months then you have to pay. You could simply pop in, get treated and bugger off again. Is that fair?

Sooner or later, the EU will clamp down on the ‘I'll just pop back to get my MOT’. Then I can travel as much as I like, is that fair?

The NHS and other services depend on a steady flow of taxpayer’s money, it can’t survive on money paid in 40 years ago, that’s well gone.

The problem will be made worse by the sheer migration of individuals, Romanians, Bulgarians and other will be allowed free movement and that will entitle them to ‘free’ medical care and other services, all paid for by the UK taxpayers. At some point the system will collapse and then what? You turn people away?

The ‘I’m entitled’ culture will soon be replace by ‘you’re not, pay up’ and that will cause another problem. The EU system is, as communism was , good I theory, it simply will not work. You will end up with the developed countries full and the likes of Bulgaria and Romania slipping back into the middle ages.

 

[Munchie]

Sorry if it offends but that is bit unfair. As a resident of a European country we are still obliged to pay tax in the UK as well as our country of residence. I am not complaining at doing ths as I knew ths when I took up residence. But I am saying that it is unfair to deny me medical care if I fall ill when visiting my country of origin. Especially when medical care s freely available to people who have jst arrived in the country and have as yet not contributed to the system.

You do not have to pay tax in both countries. I am now resident in France and have completed the form and now pay tax in France and in UK i am rated NT (no tax). Look into it! :thumb:

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