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Discussion in 'Fifth Wheelers' started by SimoneAstro, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. SimoneAstro

    SimoneAstro Read Only Funster

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    Hi to all,

    I'm a new forum user from Italy, I've a new pick up unit and I'm looking for
    a very lightweight 5th wheel unit (...if possible less than 2000Kg...), do anyone knows
    if such a 5th wheel does exist?

    Thanks to all,
    Simone.
     
  2. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

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    Hi and welcome to the forum Simoneastro.
    With regard to 5th wheel units some of the older ones come in under the weight you want but usually they do not have a slide out.
    My 1999 one from niche-marketing came in at 1660 and was an Adventure unit, it was a low profile with no slideouts, and i traded it last year.
    Which pickup do you have as most have a 2500kg or 3000kg weight allowance.

    http://www.niche-marketing.net/

    they have a contact number on that site and if you give them a ring they might be able to help you or even have a lightweight unit in.
    Both the roadrunner and the amerilite come in under 2000kg, have a look under plans and specifications on their site

    maggie
     
  3. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    good advise Maggie, but Simone could have a lot of expense and problems permanently importing one from here to Italy
     
  4. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

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    My present van pappa origionally was supplied by niche to someone in france, but it is now back in England and i only have french written manuals for the equipment, I bought it via niche last year it wasnt a van from their stock, my first one was bought in spain although that had first been supplied to someone english.
    As you say i dont know what problems there could be with importing to Italy I had none with regard to my units, but the person to ask would be someone like Greg at niche, also if the poster now sees either of the two models i mentioned advertised anywhere over in Italy,France, he will know they are within the weight allowance he gave.
     
  5. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    just pointing out he was in Italy in case you hadn't noticed.

    agreed it shouldn't be a problem but you never know what these continental bureaucrats are like.

    cant even import to southern Ireland without taking a massive hit on import tax. :Eek!:
     
  6. SimoneAstro

    SimoneAstro Read Only Funster

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    Thank to all of you!!!

    I live in Italy, but it's not a problem to fly in UK for some days and have a look to
    Niche or other 5th wheel show rooms....

    I must admit that on the law side I need some clarification by our MTCC (the italian
    civil motor office...)...

    My weight limit is imposed by the pick up unit, a Chinese variant of the Isuzu D-MAX
    but with a 2.4L LPG/Unleaded fuel engine, in many countries it is allowed to tow
    2250kg and can carry up to 935kg on the pick up bed. In Italy they downrated its
    towing capacity to 2000kg + 935kg on the bed....so I need a very lightweight unit
    to tow it comfortably and without legal problems!!!

    I've seen a Takena 5th wheel unit that should be within my towing limits, but I don't
    know if is it possible to import in ITALY/UK (importing in EU countries should
    simplify any conversion...), do you know if Niche or others may import specific
    5th wheel models?

    Have you any suggestions....?....may I leave the 5th wheel route and keep going
    with my CI motorcaravan?....

    Thanks to all,
    Simone
     
  7. Jackomet

    Jackomet Read Only Funster

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    Hi and welcome

    Check out the "Ultima" from Calder liesure, all fibreglass 8m, slide out and under 2000kgs.
    JK
     
  8. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

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    The 5th wheels that niche import are from the USA and the models imported are called 'lite range'

    I also have the isuzu rodeo denver max but the diesel version and my towing weight allowance is 3000kg which is the reason i bought it as it is higher than the nissan allowance
     
  9. LesAshmore

    LesAshmore Read Only Funster

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    Hi Simone, I think you need to clarify with your MTCC with a fifth wheel it is not classed as "Towing" in the UK or EU, Strictly speaking on a tow ball (Normal Caravan) the maximum that can be "Towed" is around 3000 kg, But a fifth wheel is on a "Hitch" on the back of the truck, This changes the rules totally, the "Gross Train weight" then comes into law, a Nissan Navara has a Gross Train weight (After re plating) of 6500kg the vehicle is around 2200 kg thereby allowing it to pull a weight of up to 4300 kg, BUT if it was a caravan (Normal) it would be a max towing weight of 3000 kg.
     
  10. tink

    tink Read Only Funster

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    Spot on Les :thumb:
     
  11. SimoneAstro

    SimoneAstro Read Only Funster

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    Les,

    obviously I need to check with my MTCC if I'm allowed to tow up to 2930Kg (i.e. it
    shoul be the maximum value for my pick up...).

    On the other end, my Engine is not a turbo diesel one so the torque values are
    lower and I'm looking for a lightweight 5th wheel because I hope that with a
    lower mass it should be simple to tow it!!!

    I've not seen the 'ultima' model on the Calder site should I call them?


    Thanks to all,
    Simone.
     
  12. LesAshmore

    LesAshmore Read Only Funster

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    Hi Simone I have just viewed the weight limits for the DMAX (Standard) and I think the "Towing" limits you state are as stated "Towing" limits and NOT Train weights.

    Yes you could call Calder they are very helpful indeed and the new "Ultima" is extremely nice and also light, But no matter which you buy you need to find out your train weights.

    By the way a Nissan Navara is not Turbo charged either and the torque values are also low, we use the engine chip to increase the values to a more acceptable level.
     
  13. LesAshmore

    LesAshmore Read Only Funster

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    Hi Chatter, I don't know who told you that but it is incorrect, Of the 3 recommended Pick ups, ie Toyota, Isuzu, Mitsubishi they are all rated at Towing 3000kg

    But the Nissan Navara is Most recommended because of the position of the Fifth wheel hitch which is directly over the rear axle and it has the heaviest rated clutch.

    The limit of 3000kg is set by the maximum the tow ball and towing gear can handle and not the Pick up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2010
  14. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

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    Experience Les being an ex owner of so called recomended nissan and nissan towing unless they have upgraded it was 2250, nice vehicle to look at great as a solo vehicle but as a proper work horse utterley useless, i kept mine 6months Proper nissan plating gives something like 5810 total train weight unless you upgrade it, the isusu is 5950, i dont need to upgrade my vehicle plate to tow my 5ver because of choice of unit and vehicle, loaded 5ver and truck comes in at 5500 for 2 of us , within the trainweight of the vehicle. Having owned both brands of pickup I know which one can do the job without major engine, clutch problems even if i am female. My vehicle is neither chipped or uprated and i get on average 21mpg towing the 5ver. I also was going to get a calder unit at first but when i did my 'homework' changed my mind and went for the lighter niche unit, it still sleeps up to 6 and has a slide but is within permitted weights. The hitch is also directly over the axle on the isusu and no matter which way you choose to look at the weight issue it still cannot exceed the total plated weight of the vehicle which is the combined weight of the truck and whatever it is carrying or towing.
    The reason the nissan is pushed by dealers selling 5vers is because the expensive work of doing the replating tests was done by the fithwheel company for their units and the info is already held on record, to arrange a replate of uprated weight for a vehicle brand from scratch is very expensive totalling thousands of pounds
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2010
  15. LesAshmore

    LesAshmore Read Only Funster

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    I think you must have had a duff one then, I also have owned both, all three in fact, the Mitsubishi I got rid of after just 2 weeks, The Isuzu was fine on fuel consumption but it still didn't compare with an original Navara I had, In between I also had a Toyota but I didn't like the inability to use the four wheel drive until stood.

    I get at the moment just knocking around locally 23.6 mpg but I dont care about the fuel consumption, as far as I am concerned I have had many 4x4 's not all pick ups but for pulling power the Navara outstrips them all.

    I mainly use my vehicles for towing I used to tow cars around on trailers all the time whilst working so I have vast experience of towing.

    I have not had my Navara uprated because of any brand of 5er I had it uprated because I virtually live in my 5er as we tour Europe for months at a time, Having it uprated was a natural thing to do as then I can buy stuff I see and not worry about overloading.

    I looked at the Niche marketing units and decided they weren't for me as the designs/layouts didn't suit us and my Calder unit is well within permitted weights even without the uprating, but again I didn't look at weights or anything like that, I looked at design/layout and it was that alone which made me go for the Calder unit.

    I also looked at the Fifth Wheel Company Celtic Rambler but after many emails re it's "Foibles" and after many many recommendations I again viewed the Calder units.

    I had my first Navara in 1998 and the towing limit then was 3000 just as it is now, If you look at the towbars the actual "Plated" limit is on there so it is possible that a "Cheaper" type of towbar was either fitted or being shown to you at the time.
     
  16. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

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    You and i could toss this around till the cows come home i suspect Les with neither giving way but it does not help the origional poster with his querey, who going by his comments has already had his truck downrated to 2000kg by the rules and regs of his country, which was the reason i pointed him in the direction of the lightest type of units available
     
  17. LesAshmore

    LesAshmore Read Only Funster

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    Yes I totally agree it is basically the same as "Which is the best Telly" ?, But I think he may be confusing the "Towing weight" with being applicable to a 5er which we both know it isn't any comparison, and that is what I am trying to show.

    I have searched and tried to find a Train weight for his vehicle but cannot find one, I think the law in Italy is similar to ours (being in EU) But I do not know for sure, I have a friend who lives in Italy and he is in some government position advising something or other but I cannot get hold of him either to ask him.

    What I am afraid is if he goes out and purchases a unit at 2000kg say he is not going to be able to carry any extras stores ie food water and so on.
     
  18. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

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    Quite correct Les the older 5vers (uk spec) without a slide come in around the 1660kg mark, my first one was that weight and that included the weight allowance of the water, it was an adventure model especially made for niche and very low profile, then they also added the road runner and the amerilite to the light models
     
  19. SimoneAstro

    SimoneAstro Read Only Funster

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    Chatter, Les, my pick up can tow up to 2000kg and carry up to 935kg plus me so
    I can tow a fifth wheel up to 2935Kg....

    I am looking for a 5ver that is light enough to tow it safety, i.e. with a power reserve
    that can get me out of trouble in every circoumstance!!!!

    Based on your experience, wich unit should I consider?

    Are The Niche and Calder Leisure weights real or are only data specification that are
    usually given by a manufacturer.....?
    More on this, are they dry weight ? If so the maximum weight is probably over my
    max towable mass, do you know if is it possible to re-plate a 5ver in order to
    reduce its carrying capacity?

    My pick up is a Great Wall Steed (Wingle in other countries) that is a isuzu D-Max
    2008 clone but with a 2.4L LPG engine with 'only' 130Hp and a good torque from
    2000 to 3500 rpm....

    Ciao ciao,
    Simone.
     
  20. LesAshmore

    LesAshmore Read Only Funster

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    Simone
    The best advice I can give you is to telephone the companies and ask them your questions, We can sit here all day giving you what we think is the best advice, But as has been evident in a couple of posts we all have our own preferences.

    There are numerous 5er's around which come into your scenario but I don't have enough experience to be able to advise you on what will be best for you, Nor would I want to take that responsibility.

    I am sorry, I hope you don't think I am fobbing you off, I am not.

    I would prefer it if you spoke to professional persons where this is concerned as I have my reservations.
     

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