New leisure batteries needed, which one? (1 Viewer)

[TheCaller]

I think you missed his points completely,

No, I don't think I did.

I'm not disputing what he said as applied to narrowboats & in that situation I think he is probably right to dismiss both gel & AGM batteries - they don't provide any worthwhile or cost effective benefit.

But a PVC is not a narrowboat. As Charles himself pointed out, the principle benefit of a gel battery is that it is leak proof in the event of an accident. It doesn't require either a battery box or venting. As such, it is suitable for positioning in the habitation area of the vehicle, underneath the driver's seat, clamped in position but otherwise not isolated from the living area. If I fitted an underslung gas tank, I would do as @JockandRita has done & fit traction batteries in the old gas locker. Or I could follow @Gromett 's example & use cheap flooded cell batteries in the same location. But without moving the battery location, anyone in my situation does need to consider the benefit of the sealed nature of gel or AGM batteries.

 

[funflair]

I think that dismissing GEL's as nothing more than safe/leak proof sort of misses the point that they offer a lower depth of discharge if that matters and they offer increased cycle life over flooded lead acid which must go some way if not all the way to negate the price difference.

Martin

 

[maxi77]

No, I don't think I did.

I'm not disputing what he said as applied to narrowboats & in that situation I think he is probably right to dismiss both gel & AGM batteries - they don't provide any worthwhile or cost effective benefit.

But a PVC is not a narrowboat. As Charles himself pointed out, the principle benefit of a gel battery is that it is leak proof in the event of an accident. It doesn't require either a battery box or venting. As such, it is suitable for positioning in the habitation area of the vehicle, underneath the driver's seat, clamped in position but otherwise not isolated from the living area. If I fitted an underslung gas tank, I would do as @JockandRita has done & fit traction batteries in the old gas locker. Or I could follow @Gromett 's example & use cheap flooded cell batteries in the same location. But without moving the battery location, anyone in my situation does need to consider the benefit of the sealed nature of gel or AGM batteries.

And just where do you think boats put their batteries, many are in the habitation are or at least not sealed of from it. In my last boat I sat on one of my house batteries at the chart table. If gel or AGM make you feel better then clearly the additional cost is worth it what ever reality is. If crash resistance in batteries was a major point surely gel or AGM would be mandated in all vehicles.

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[magicsurfbus]

Rather than start (yet) another battery thread maybe I can piggyback on this one?

I'll try to keep it to the point.

Picking up new MH soon. It has a 100Ah lead acid battery factory fitted and a 100W solar panel. The charger is a Sargent PX-300 rated at 25 Amps with output voltages 13.6v to 14.4v and a recommended battery capacity of 85 - 220Ah, according to the technical info anyway.

On our last MH we had an 85W solar panel and a 110Ah Elecsol carbon fibre leisure battery, which we managed with for our basic 12v needs, and the battery was still going strong after 8 years.

HOWEVER - the new MH has more 12v gizmos and gadgets than the last one (but no air con), and we like living EHU free as much as we can (ie aires) although we're not full-timing. Maybe a month or so at a time, and not in winter. The available payload is very tight so I can't go mad with extra batteries, but I want more than 100Ah available and I want a NCC Class A battery.

I'm looking at the Platinum PAGM145-12 to replace the factory fit battery as that will give me nearly 50% more Amps (145Ah) for only 16Kgs of additional weight (40Kgs as opposed to 24Kgs), which is manageable if the missus agrees to halve her usual gin stash

My question to the panel is this - is there any just cause or impediment to my marrying the above AGM battery to a Sargent PX-300 charger? Sargent claim their charger is compatible with AGM 'in most cases', but before I fork out my cash I was wondering if this one might be the exception to the rule? All advice in simple layman's terms much appreciated, as always.

 

[maxi77]

Rather than start (yet) another battery thread maybe I can piggyback on this one?

I'll try to keep it to the point.

Picking up new MH soon. It has a 100Ah lead acid battery factory fitted and a 100W solar panel. The charger is a Sargent PX-300 rated at 25 Amps with output voltages 13.6v to 14.4v and a recommended battery capacity of 85 - 220Ah, according to the technical info anyway.

On our last MH we had an 85W solar panel and a 110Ah Elecsol carbon fibre leisure battery, which we managed with for our basic 12v needs, and the battery was still going strong after 8 years.

HOWEVER - the new MH has more 12v gizmos and gadgets than the last one (but no air con), and we like living EHU free as much as we can (ie aires) although we're not full-timing. Maybe a month or so at a time, and not in winter. The available payload is very tight so I can't go mad with extra batteries, but I want more than 100Ah available and I want a NCC Class A battery.

I'm looking at the Platinum PAGM145-12 to replace the factory fit battery as that will give me nearly 50% more Amps (145Ah) for only 16Kgs of additional weight (40Kgs as opposed to 24Kgs), which is manageable if the missus agrees to halve her usual gin stash

My question to the panel is this - is there any just cause or impediment to my marrying the above AGM battery to a Sargent PX-300 charger? Sargent claim their charger is compatible with AGM 'in most cases', but before I fork out my cash I was wondering if this one might be the exception to the rule? All advice in simple layman's terms much appreciated, as always.

You really need to do a power budget to see just how much you will be taking out each day and how much you might be putting back. Once you have done this you will know what size of battery you need to allow you to use the van as you want. Adding more solar could also help you live with a smaller battery

 

[magicsurfbus]

You really need to do a power budget to see just how much you will be taking out each day and how much you might be putting back.

As far as I can, I have - we ran the last MH largely on solar/alternator and 12v for a good few years so I know what the existing demands are. We don't use inverters, we heat with gas, and I think the additional background drain in the new vehicle will probably be limited to a slightly more sophisticated control system, occasional satellite tuning, and maybe the Alde central heating pump when it's colder. 145Ah is the best additional power I can get for the least additional weight, based on the NCC Class A list anyway.

Adding more solar could also help you live with a smaller battery

Point taken, but it will also add more weight, roof space may be limited, and the factory fit panel is already bigger output than the one we previously managed with.

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[Crazylegs]

Having had a lead acid leisure battery that was under our drop down bed boil whilst we were asleep, has ensured that we shall for ever more be buying gel batteries.

 

[magicsurfbus]

Having had a lead acid leisure battery that was under our drop down bed boil whilst we were asleep, has ensured that we shall for ever more be buying gel batteries.

Ours will be in the boot, below our rear bed. In a lidded container with vent holes below to the outside, but your point is well noted. I'm note sure that our charging system will be set up for gel though, so I reckon it's lead acid or AGM.

 

[two]

When replacing batteries, I’d start by looking at the charger to see what types of battery it can service. I’d also check its output, if planning to increase the capacity of the battery bank.

I’ve killed tens of batteries, of all sorts, over the years (Wet, AGM, & Gel). I’m not sure why they’ve failed but have assumed it’s been due to neglect most of the time. Although I should know better than to believe the marketing guff that’s put out to encourage the purchase of a particular brand or type, I do, and I now use Gel in the m/h in the belief that cope with deeper discharge than Wet. Unless putting different types through similar use (say as in a fleet of hire boats), I’m not sure how anyone can compare and provide evidence of one type being ‘better’ than another. The less stress you give them, the longer they’ll last, just avoid heavy or prolonged deep discharges.

I use a battery-to-battery charger to charge from the engine and not found the need for solar.

When the Gels are US, I’m thinking of giving LiFePO4 a go.

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[maxi77]

Having had a lead acid leisure battery that was under our drop down bed boil whilst we were asleep, has ensured that we shall for ever more be buying gel batteries.

Why will gel batteries not do the same when mistreated

 

[JeanLuc]

Why will gel batteries not do the same when mistreated

Yes, if a cell in a gel battery is failing, it will 'gas' when under charge. It happened to me when one of the original Exide gels failed. The van was on the drive at the time and the hook-up cable was connected. It was the sounding of the CO alarm that warned us of the problem. Opened the door to find the van full of sulphurous gas.