New Iveco Daily Chassis, do you have a charging issue??

Discussion in 'All the Rest' started by sallylillian, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    I have been in contact with another 2015 Flair owner regarding his ongoing charging problem which resulted in us identifying a failing Victron remote panel, the removal of which resulted in him getting charging on EHU back! However the fault finding was made more difficult by the "no charging" problem apparently existing whilst on the road too. ie the Alternator was not charging correctly. Information from Martin @funflair pointed to this new feature on the Daily chassis:-
    ELECTRONIC SUB-SYSTEMS page 31 says a) the diesel-powered NEW DAILY is equipped with an advanced ("smart") alternator commanded by the engine control unit. This alternator is capable of delivering electrical current only when it is really necessary, and is able to always guarantee a correct state of battery charge through the sensor on the negative pole.

    It would seem that the Leisure bank is not monitored?

    So this question is aimed at all those with a 2015 Daily Chassis'd motor home, whatever the make, Concorde, Phoenix, Carthago et al.

    Have you noticed that if you set off with a low leisure battery bank that even after hours on the road the bank has not been substantially recharged?

    Michael
     
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  2. funflair

    funflair Funster Life Member

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    Hi Michael

    This is where we find out how many vans are on the new IVECO chassis, my guess might be not many.

    Martin
     
  3. Doctor Dave

    Doctor Dave Funster

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    Mine is on an old IVECO chassis (07 plate).


    Dave
     
  4. funflair

    funflair Funster Life Member

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    So is ours 2005 chassis,(y) the suggestion is that the "smart alternator" basically is not set up to look after anything other than the vehicle battery.

    Martin
     
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  5. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    Unfortunatly my Flair is in the barn at the moment and until Chris (other Flair owner) made his observation whilst on a long trip and with a low leisure battery I was blissfully unaware. Also my batteries are on 24/7 charge so even starting the engine will not prove a lot.
     
  6. DABurleigh

    DABurleigh Funster

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    I'm pretty sure I've seen my 2014 pre-facelift Flair charging the leisure batteries while on tickover when I looked at the Victron control panel.

    Next time I'll definitely check. For those with the problem, how did the fridge/freezer cope without alternator charging?

    Dave
     
  7. funflair

    funflair Funster Life Member

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    Hi Dave

    I think the "smart alternator" will only be on vehicles from late 2014 production built on the "new daily"

    Martin
     
  8. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    Dave, I am not sure your chassis is the 2015 one which has the so called "smart alternator" fortunately if that is the case, it depends how early the chassis was released in 2014. This development is specific to the 2015 chassis according to the blurb Martin found.
     
  9. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    Looks like you may be lucky!!!!
     
  10. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    I have been looking at my manual this morning and trying to understand the process of charge management from the alternator, the question is if the relay which connects the 2 banks is a different one than that which works with the Victron? Here is an extract from the manual.

    - As soon as the vehicle engine is started, the „generator symbol“ on the
    central panel signals the perfect operation of the vehicle generator.
    - A battery separating device (12V-70A) controls the charging operation of
    vehicle and leisure battery
    .
    - Via the battery separating device are additionally attended the consuming
    point relays, which are controlled via the output "OUT D+ (simulated D+),
    e.g. the electrically operated entrance step.
    - The leisure battery is charged via the vehicle generator only if the voltage
    of the vehicle battery has reached a value over 13.5 volts.
    - The parallel charge is indicated on the central panel with the „double battery
    symbol G“
    - The charging process of the leisure battery is suspended as soon as the
    voltage of the vehicle battery drops below 12.2 volts, or the ignition is switched
    off. • Charging the leisure battery with the vehicle generator while parking
    - If the leisure battery is discharged and there is no other power supply source,
    the leisure battery can be limitedly supplied with energy by running the
    vehicle engine.
    - During this charging period the current consumption in the bodyshell is to
    be kept as low as possible.
    - For reasons of environmental protection, charging of the bodyshell battery
    with the vehicle generator while the vehicle is parked should be used only
    in case of an extreme emergency and only short time.

    The suggestion is that they have it covered, however my experience of the manual is that it has many missing elements, or things they have changed; Alarm setting no longer locks the doors, there is no filling of the water tank by a switching valve of the city water connection anymore, I have still to find the leisure battery breaker switch, it is not where shown in the manual, the list goes on. That said it is an 830 page manual they must have a team working full time on it, even if they are clearly not keeping up!
     
  11. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    The converters should have addressed this issue....and it will happen more as smart alternators become more commonplace.
     
  12. Robert Clark

    Robert Clark Funster Life Member

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    Our Carthago has a similar, if not identical system
    Alternator charges the engine battery - when fully charged, a B2B charger kicks in and the leisure batteries are charged.
    If the leisure batteries are not getting a charge then I'd suggest getting the B2B charger checked.
    Another thing to consider is the capacity of the B2B charger compared with the size of the leisure batteries. I've got 4 x 80A, which would require 320 Amps to fully charge them.
    If the B2B charger is 50A, then this could take upto 7 hours
     
  13. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    But do you have a smart alternator?
     
  14. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    One of the key elements of these smart alternators is that they are controlled by the ECU and only charge when the engine is under reduced or no load. Indeed the guy who started this debate with me tows a heavy car so there is hardly any time when the engine is not under a load of some description and the engine tells the alternator to stop charging, this reduces engine hp consumed and hence fuel consumption which is the aim. That's fine if you are just managing topping up the engine battery for lights consumption cos its dark and engine start, but its a whole different ballgame if as Robert identified you wanted to pump in a couple of hundred amps because you were wild camping last night and are on the move to your next wild site?
    Also checking the output whilst stationary does not cut it as the engine is not under load so the alternator is "allowed" to charge the batteries.
    So this is not as simple as a b2b charging relay.
     
  15. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    Another interesting paragraph from the Iveco book
    Additional batteries
    The addition of a battery in the vehicle electrical system requires the provision of a circuit that, during start-up, makes it possible to
    section this battery with respect to the original. Given the new "smart" recharge strategies, the auxiliary battery must be equivalent
    to the originally installed battery and must have the same capacity (110 Ah).
    The batteries can be traditional or "recombination" (AGM or gel).
    Due to the normal chemical reaction that generates acid vapours during charging, installation must be performed in a way that
    ensures the safety of people and the protection of the vehicle.
    Therefore, regardless of the type of battery, if you do not already have a segregated compartment, it is necessary to:
    a) provide an airtight container corresponding to the passenger compartment, equipped with a system that vents vapours to the
    outside of the vehicle,
    or
    b) use a battery equipped with a lid with a vapour extraction system, anti-backfire (flame arrestor) system and a vent tube to the
    outside of the housing.
    Also bear in mind that:
    ● vent systems should not cause depression inside the battery;
     
  16. Robert Clark

    Robert Clark Funster Life Member

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    No mention of smart or normal alternator in my handbook - however it does say
    "A 100% charge is NOT achieved when batteries are charged by engine. Charge every 4 weeks via 230v supply"
     
  17. jonegood

    jonegood Funster

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    Ive not had direct experience but isnt the point of a victron that it manages the whole 'power' situation?
     
  18. grumfy

    grumfy Funster

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    I have a two week old Concorde mhome on " New Daily" but reading through Iveco use and maintenance book can find no mention of a smart alternator. The converters handbook, only 200 pages, does not mention the fact either but that is not to say it does not exist. I cannot comment on whether or not I get a charge when driving as I have only done a couple of short trips and at all other times it has been on ehu.
    So in short I cannot help but I will watch this thread with interest and concern.
     
  19. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    The Victron inverter/charger manages your charging like any other charger from 230 volt AC and converts to an inverter when EHU is not available. But it goes one step further if you use the digital remote panel you can dial up the breaker limit on your EHU post, say 6amps. Then when inverter is selected but the van draws only 3 amps for whatever, the charger will only take the remaining 3 amps to carry on charging. When the vans transient consumer demand exceeds 6 amps it takes the full 6 amps and inverts from your batteries the balance required to meet the demand. So no need to explain limits to wifey! The issue on this thread is the 12 volt charging from the alternator which has nothing to do with the Victron, but a problem with its remote panel is how we stumbled onto this smart alternator issue.
     
  20. sallylillian

    sallylillian Funster Life Member

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    Have a read:-
    http://ibb.iveco.com/Body%20Builder%20Inst...0DAILY%20en.pdf
    Page 167 of the pdf
     
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