Mot class for small pick ups with 5th wheel

Discussion in 'The Beginner' started by impreza22, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. impreza22

    impreza22 Read Only Funster

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    Hi everyone
    Just looking for some advice on what class 4,7 or hgv mots where small pick ups
    with a 5 th wheel conversion done.
    Sorry if this question has been asked before but would like up to date info.

    So my question is which class are these vehicles tested to when it comes to mot time,something like a Nissan navara or landy to tow a large caravan for leisure .

    If I was to use one for commercial reasons will it make much difference to mot class.

    Great site by the way and any advice will be appreciated
     
  2. Landy lover

    Landy lover Funster

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    Mine goes through on a normal test every year - I have heard some people who have had to remove the 5th wheel hitch for the MOT (its only 4 pins ) - Geo has commented on this in the past - maybe he will again but he stated normal MOT for the vehicle. The fifth wheel hitch I believe could be classified as a load - MOT rules I understand state the vehicle should be unladen. Very much down to the MOT Tester.
     
  3. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    I'll second that, normal mot and at different locations.
     
  4. impreza22

    impreza22 Read Only Funster

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    Thanks for the advice everyone
    Iam even more confused as today I decided to ring VOSA and ask them, I know they are the powers that be but sometimes the call staff end up given incorrect info or sound insure of what iam on about.
    They informed me today that I would have to have it tested as an hgv due to its construction change.
    My navara has always been tested as a class 4 dual pupose, but if I fit a 5th wheel it needs plating and testing hence hgv mot
    Can anyone shed any light on this confusing situation
    Thanks
    Joe
     
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  5. Landy lover

    Landy lover Funster

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    As usual with this type of thing it is what they think you are describing - you have told them effectively you have turned it into an artic tug which would of course need an HGV or certainly class 7 MOT - you are not you are putting a removable hitch for an American 5th wheel caravan into the butt. Total different situations.
     
  6. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    If you want to be confused and get misleading (or downright wrong) information then contact VOSA (which incidentally no longer exists).

    Most (ex) VOSA operatives don't know there arse from their elbow.
     
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  7. dave newell lvs

    dave newell lvs Trader-Vehicle Services

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    Only a guess and my gut feeling but I would work on a few basic points:

    Is its GVW less than 3500KGS? Yes then class 4 I think.

    Is its GVW 3500KGs or more? if yes then class 7 or perhaps HGV if over 3500KGs.

    Does it look like a motorhome or a commercial vehicle? If it looks like a motorhome then its class 4 regardless of weight, if it looks like a commercial vehicle then it will be tested as such depending on its GVW.

    Will be interested to read Geo's take on this, or any other MOT testers on this site.

    D.
     
  8. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Your the closest Dave :Wink:
    My take on it from reading up on special notices dating back to 2010 and other reports that seem to contradict each other is as follows

    Pick up trucks and the like appear to have lost there dual Purpose status
    And that appears to clarify a few things

    GVW upto 3000KG = Class4

    GVW 3000KG To 3500KG =Class7

    GVW over3500KG Light Goods Plated Test

    This info was correct at time of publishing and is valid for 11 seconds only:Doh::RollEyes:
    And subject to further clarification and change without Notice
    Lord help us if VOSA cant answer what chance have I got:Blush:

    Personally I would not give the 5th wheel a second glance, without tools I dont know if its fixed and working or he is delivering it:thumb:
    Geo
     
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  9. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    if that were the case a car with a detachable towbar (swan neck) would need the hitch removed as well as the nodding dog on the rear shelf.

    the rules may state unladen for MOT....all our workvans go for test as used, loaded with tools, equipment, junk, ladders on roof, scrap cable...the works.

    in the same vane.....a motorhome would need to be emptied of all personal goods and food/bedding/water etc.

    i think unladen weight rule applies to full hgv (commercial) MOT as the unladen weight will need to be recorded.
     
  10. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Normal Mot's are tested as presented ie loaded or not
    However test may be abandoned if load prevents, full inspection, exceeds safe jacking limits, or are a danger to testers or equipment
     
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  11. impreza22

    impreza22 Read Only Funster

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    The loophole regarding dual purpose is still in place but because the vehicle has been adapted with a 5 th wheel and will form part of articulated combination its no longer classed as duel purpose stated on vosa docs.
    The main issue is from what the gent said was the construction has changed
    By the way what pickups do you guys have that just get a normal test?
    Thanks
    Joe
     
  12. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    I have a Mazda Bt50, GVW 3030 so would be class7 according to Geo but have not had any problems so far, last MOT was in Aug 2013.

    I have a toneaux cover over the hitch so it is not that obvious but if it ever became a problem I can remove it in 5 mins.
     
  13. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Source of or link to your info please
    G
     
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  14. buyer

    buyer Funster - Life Member Life Member

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    I attended my mot testers mandatory refresher course on Wednesday and thursday of this week and this topic was brought up,Nissan navara pickups with a goss weight of say3250kg are to be tested as class 4(dual purpose ) vehicles.which applies to pick ups,if they can carry at least 1 pasenger ,and goods,and are capable of engaging 4 wheel drive.BUT if you then fit a fifth wheel hitch in the back it then requires an HGV test:Doh:BUT if you remove the hitch it can then be tested at class 4,because as geo quite rightly says ,as a tester you test as presented,if the vehicle presenter then fits a fifth wheel technically they will be running without a valid test.I dare say there will be someone out there that will know more about my job than I do, but this came from the VOSA training yesterday.:thumb:
     
  15. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    Perhaps if it was pointed out to DVSA (formerly VOSA) that the fifth wheel coupling is of a temporary removable nature their opinion may change.
     
  16. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    are you turning blue yet Geo.....and breathe. :RollEyes:
     
  17. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    Yet another thing for us 5'er owners to worry about :BigGrin::BigGrin:

    Carry on regardless ???
     
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  18. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    I dont wish to contradict anything you have posted, But it don't sound right and it dont make sense to bring 4wheel drive into the equation,

    Suffice it to say either you have mis interpreted what was said or the Vosa Trainer got it round his neck
    I have read today an old special notice informing us of the loss of dual purpose and checked for a turnaround on that decision and couldnt find one
    What centre did you attend id like to call them
    Geo

    Special Notice July 2013
    Item 3: Dual Purpose Vehicles (SN 5 - 2009)
    We recently sent out a system message, allowing certain 4 x 4 pickup vehicles with a DGW over 3000kg
    up to and including 3500kg to be considered dual purpose vehicles for test purposes where no unladen
    weight data is available.
    Following further consultation with the Department for Transport, an amendment to the Motor Vehicles
    (Tests) Regulations early next year will see the removal of the dual purpose vehicle definition.
    You should advise your customers that once the necessary changes have been made to the regulations,
    scheduled for early next year, all goods vehicles over 3000kg up to and including 3500kg DGW previously
    accepted as dual purpose vehicles will then fall in to Class 7.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  19. buyer

    buyer Funster - Life Member Life Member

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    Hi geo .i know what you are saying ,whoever said the mot scheme makes sence,but to be classified as a dual purpose vehicle it must be 4x4 ,and this subject was talked about at some length ,about 30 minutes of lively debate,and I took notice of it because I personally test a few navaras as class 7's because I misread the special notice of 2009 ,I mistakenly thought they had removed the dual purpose bit ,but our trainer PAUL at Lincoln pointed out that it says it will be removed next year,BUT NEVER HAS BEEN.i have even tested them for other cl
    Ass 4 stations who believe they can't test them. In the future I will be testing them all as class 4. As long as no fifth wheel hitches:thumb:
     
  20. Landy lover

    Landy lover Funster

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    I know my mate (MOT Tester ) had a warning for moving a buggy to check the rear seat belt anchorage and was told that he should have refused the test as the vehicle was laden. Just shows how petty and ridiculous people from VOSA can be.
     
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